Another interesting HP

[Glen]

Ever notice how RN revolver bullets always seem to be among the most accurate? (I suspect that this is due to how the RN ogive mates up with the bevel cut on the forcing cone and lands, but that's another story). Anyway, while RN bullets tend to shoot very well, they are lousy killers at typical revolver velocities. As a result, I have long wanted to find a 429251 HP mould so that I could marry the accurate (and aerodynamic) RN ogive with the good killing properties of the cast HP. Well, I finally found such a mould. It was missing the HP pin, so I had to make one (.156" diameter at the mouth, 7.5 degree taper, extends down to the bottom of the forward driving band)


I just finished casting my first batch of bullets with the new mould. I cast them out of range scrap, which has a BHN of about 8 (similar to 30-1 alloy). The bullets drop from the blocks weighing about 242 grains. The base band is somewhat oversized (and not very round), but the body bands are pretty round and right at .430". The bullets size to .430" very nicely. I am going to load them to 1000, 1100, and 1200 fps in .44 Special cases and see how they expand.

[Char-Gar]

Glen.. I have noticed the same accuracy level with RN bullets out of a sixgun. Good old Lyman 311358 is the accuracy champ in most of my 38/357 sixguns. I have also wondered how a HP version would work.

Keep us posted on how this comes out. I should think a expanding version of 311358 at 1 to 1.1K fps would be very useful bullet and load. I don't think I would take a poke at a whitetail with such a load, but short of that it should kill small and medium critters quite well.

It would also make a bad guy sit down and contemplate the error of his ways.

[Glen]

Funny you should mention that Charles, I happen to have a 358311 single-cavity on the way and it will get converted to HP form as soon as it gets here. I was thinking exactly the same thing -- a very accurate varmint load at 1050-1100 fps.

[Bass Ackward]

I am going to load them to 1000, 1100, and 1200 fps in .44 Special cases and see how they expand.


Glen,

You can load those down to 600 fps and get them to blow up like a hand grenade if you want. Just melt a candle and let the wax drip in that cavity. If it's deep, use a toothpick to work it down and fill it some more. Will be like a large diameter 22LR bullet and it will open up. Makes a poof sound on contact.

[Bret4207]

Jeeze Glen-I'm surprised you haven't had 4 guys tell you you can't load a 44 Special to those velocities or 4 other guys tell you that cast won't expand at all anyways. Oh, wait- I'm not at Accurate, Grey Bread or 24 Hour Campfire. My bad.

Fun project. Good luck.

[9.3X62AL]

Bret--

I COULD post such drivel, but I'd be a pretty audacious hypocrite. My M-624 runs #429421 and #429244 from 950 to 1100 FPS pretty frequently. Those sorts of loads would be deer-capable, methinks.

Glen--

In an article written about the 32-20 WCF in revolvers, Ken Waters stated a belief that the RN boolits "self-center" in the barrel from the forcing cone more readily than sharp-shouldered SWC designs, and suggested that recourse for 32-20 revolvers that wouldn't group the SWCs. On its face, that made sense to me. Is this consistent with your thinking?

[Glen]

That's exactly what I'm thinking Al. This should make for a fun winter project...

[txbirdman]

Not to change the subject too much, but what do you think about the alignment characteristics of the truncated cone design. Seems to me that you'd have the alignment advantage of the round nose with the meplat of the SWC. I have a "wildcat" .375 using 30/30 brass on a new model Blackhawk frame that shoots this design really well.

[robertbank]

You are really bad. :mrgreen: Now where is my candle? Got some +P HP rounds to blow off. I'll have to see what they do on milk jugs in the morning.

Take Care

Bob

[Glen]

I finally got a chance to shoot these test loads! Both the 7.5 grains of Unique and 10.0 grains of HS-6 deliverred right at 980 fps, and gave good accuracy, but nothing to write home about (1 1/2" to 1 3/4" for 5 shots at 25 yards, 7 1/2" Ruger NMBH revolver).

17.0 grains of 2400 was a real winner, with the first 5-shot group being one ragged hole at 25 yards (about 3/4" center to center), with an average velocity of 1238 fps. Since this is a hunting bullet, this is the load I was most interested in....and 1200+ fps is a very useful velocity for a cast HP.

[MtGun44]

Glen,

That's great accy from your new bullet.

Hmmmm. 8 BHN hollow point at 1200+ fps. I'm thinking you'll get
lots of expansion. Any experience with HPs at this hardness and velocity
combination? I've never done any hollowpoints in my cast bullets, but it
seems pretty fast for that soft an alloy. My guess (with no data!) would
be a blown off front end, which might not be all bad with a bullet that
big, might cause a massive wound, plus leave the remainder to penetrate.

I'd love to see any results of testing to see if my guessing is anywhere
near reality. Do you shoot wet newsprint/phone books like most folks?
I've had real good luck getting expansion that matches the gelatin results,
and about 2/3 of the penetration distance of the gelatin tests with the
same bullet/velocity in very wet phone books or newsprint.

Bill

[Glen]

Yes, it will expand readily. Whether the front end stays on or fragments will depend on the tin content, and also the antimony content. Part of the reason for casting them that soft was I wanted to see how accurate they were at that velocity when cast that soft. When I actually hunt with them, I will probably cast them a little harder (around BHN 10). Many cast HPs turn into very pretty little mushrooms at 1200 fps when cast of 20-1 alloy.

[Glen]

I just got back from a hunt in which the 429251 HP got a chance to prove its mettle. A friend of mine shot a HUGE boar (about 700 lbs) with his .45-70, loaded with the Gould bullet at about 1500 fps. He hit him low in the left shoulder, broke the front left leg, cut the heart, did some lung damage and exited just behind the right shoulder. This hog was in some thick stuff, and moving out the backside, and Steve couldn't get in to take a follow-up shot. The hog stumbled out in front of me, so I "collaborated" and shot him twice in the ribs/lungs with my 7 1/2" NM RBH .44 Special, loaded with the 429251 HP over 17.0 grains of 2400 (1235 fps). He staggered and fell, and Steve came over and finished him with this .45. One of my shots exited, and we found the other underneath the hide on the far side. It weighed 194 grains (originally 241 grains) and had expanded to approximately .60 caliber.

The first photo shows a loaded round, the as-cast 429251 HP, and the bullet recovered from Steve's hog. This was one of the range scrap bullets (BHN=8).

The second photo shows Steve with his hog. His rifle is a Phoenix .45-70. His first shot is visible in the shoulder, my shots were in the lungs, in the white stripe on the hog.

[dk17hmr]

I have neat little bullet that I am working with my 45-70. Its a lee mold that I taped and throws a bullet about .459 now supposed to be a 255gr RNFP .452, I size them down to .457 I also drilled an HP in it, a big hollow point, devastator style hp. Weighs about 240grs. If I went by Noslers 300gr Hollow Point data I would be able to get close to 3000 fps out of it....not going to go that high but that would be awesome right. Probably knock a deer down, gut it, and skin it with one shot.

[leftiye]

I must have missed this thread when it came out. I'm really tickled with this whole concept. Your boolit verifies just what I've been trying to work up for the 45-70, a soft, round nosed hollow point at whatever speed is best for terminal performance at a good distance. Soft alloys determine possible speeds, but you notice I didn't say maximum attainable speed. Thanks for the info on what alloys will work too!

I've brought this up on several threads, including some that I started and gotten no feedback. I just chalked it up to the prevailing madness with the large meplat, rock hard boolits at light speed.

[MtGun44]

Glen,

Seems like at that low BHN the 'blow the front off and leave a wadcutter to
penetrate' scenario that I guessed at is what actually happened. Seems a
lot like the Nosler Partition of cast - nose that can expand easily, yet the
bullet does not blow up, expansion limited by depth of hollow point.

Great performance and that is a really huge hog! Is the meat edible on the
ones that big?? Only as sausage?? Use to sole shoes??

Great opportunity to test that new bullet. I'd say it passed with an A+. :)

Bill

[Bret4207]

That is one BIG hog. (Reminds me of a couple local girls I've dealt with, but thats another story.....)

[Buckshot]

That is one BIG hog. (Reminds me of a couple local girls I've dealt with, but thats another story.....)


...........Heh, heh!

............Buckshot

[Jim]

Glen,
Ya done good, Sir!!

Jim

[Bret4207]

Glen, you've made me start thinking, almost always a bad thing BTW. I have a rather large supply of white box Winchester 38 Spec and a good supply of 44 Spec, all swaged lead RN. Now if'n I was to get busy with my Forster hollow pointer and alter a few, I wonder what they'd do in the field? Those swaged boolits are soft, real soft. Might be worth a try for posterities sake if nothing else...

[Glen]

Bret -- I suspect that you would have a bullet that would mushroom very nicely (but that would depend on how fast they are going in the ammo). Try it and let us know what you learn.