Casting Indoors: How do you ventilate? [Archive]

piwo

12-03-2006, 03:22 PM

I had planned on hunting this entire weekend, but a storm shut down interstate I-70 for a few day with @ 100 stranded vehicles between here and my destination. Also, they got 15.5 inches at my destination, and I was told by a local via the phone that no rural road has seen a plow. Everyone is completely bound to their homes. Central MO got plastered. So this gives me time to stew over my casting....

Each of my previous casting sessions, I've been outdoors. Now that a winter storm has arrived here and temps are quite cold and windy, that is kind of a poor option. Trying to keep the material hot enough would certainly be a chore, if not impossible.

How do those of you who cast indoors ventilate? I've seen woodworkers with fairly sophisticated and expensive ventilation systems so as to remove the saw dust particles (also quite bad for the lungs). Any pictures of your solutions? A simple solution I was thinking of was a dryer vent installed to the outside of the house, with that dryer flex hose extended over the small Lee pot (with a 4 inch 'computer" fan installed to draw the fumes). Is this practical, or is there something better already available? I have no windows on the side of my basement where my workbench is, and the other side is finished.

I received some great feedback on previous thread I started troubleshooting some poor casting results, and would like to employ some of these suggestions and work on some of these issues, but now find it impossible to put into practice.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

bobthenailer

12-03-2006, 03:41 PM

hi ! for 25 years ive been casting indoors in the mounths of jan & feb. i use a squirrel cage type exhaust fan thats mounted in a housing made for it , i mounted the exhaust side to a piece of plywood that just fits in my window and use black sealing foam on all edges and seal the crack between the upper & lower window opening with anything . for the intake i use a auto flexable exhaust pipe cut to length, and for the hood i have a funnel shaped hood made by a furnance installer thats 15 inches at the bottom and tapers down to the ex pipe size. i cast at least 10,000 a year . and i have had my lead blood levels checked many times over the years and my levles are normal . and also folow all normal casting saftey guide lines. bob

Uncle Grinch

12-03-2006, 03:48 PM

My shop has two windows, of which I crack open a couple of inches. In addition, I have mounted a gable type attic fan with a manual over-ride (to bypass the thermostat) on my back wall. The fan has the spring loaded louvers that stay closed until the fan powers up.

This draws all the fumes outside fairly quick and along with it the heat! All in all, I try to do my casting under my boat shelter when ever possible. Here in Georgia it rarely gets real cold (upper 20's occasionally).

For your setup, you may want to consider an inline vent fan or maybe a kitchen/bathroom ventilator fan. They would pull much more air than a PC cooling fan.

felix

12-03-2006, 04:06 PM

Bob, that's exactly the set-up I have seen the pistol clubs use for the Hartford CT pistol league. A hood over each pot leading to the outside via squirrel cage fans. There were three pots in this one person's basement used for the casting, sizing, and making of rounds (45ACP) for the entire league. The league hired high school kids, and they did excellent work (H&G 10 gang molds, star sizers, and loaders). The basement had after school hours, and a seperate door leading to the outside. Each member paid up 80 bucks per match-year, and that went to the supplies and kids. Shooting was virtually unlimited, but nobody abused the kids' produce. ... felix

KTN

12-03-2006, 04:26 PM

This is my setup for boolit casting.Cabin is galvanized sheet metal with plexiglas window hinged on top (helps keeping tinsel fairy contained),ductfan on top.I also do my little soldering and welding jobs in tis cabin.

Kaj

piwo

12-03-2006, 04:40 PM

Thanks for the tips, and Kraj, thanks for the pic as well. What an impressive setup that is! While it's probably out of my realm, it does give pause for additional thoughts. My idea was about what you have, MINUS the nice box, with plexiglass. I was just thinking the vent portion over the pot, but you've got the cadillac setup there. I can see that being VERY safe indeed.

Thanks one and all for your input. I'm looking for ideas, and this is what I'm looking for.

Dale53

12-03-2006, 06:22 PM

I have a 12x20 utility barn that I had built for my self. I had my carpenter build in a permanent casting bench. He built in a LARGE exhaust hood (flush with the ceiling) that contains a furnace squirrel cage blower. However, this is pretty much overkill except when I flux. A friend of mine has a four inch flex pipe fastened to the top of his casting pot (a tab is slid under one of the nuts on top of the pot to hold it in place). An small, inline, fan pulls air from out of the pot directly to outside. This is perhaps the simplest of all ways to do it. His housing for the fan is a large, empty coffee can (fan is inside and the flex pipe in and out of each end).

This works as well as anything. It doesn't move all of the heated air from the room but removes the noxious stuff quite well, thank you.

FWIW
Dale53

Jack Stanley

12-03-2006, 07:32 PM

My casting is generally done in the basement in the winter . I have a room divided off that I use for several things , among them casting . On the north wall I made a "hood" if ya wanna call it that extending from the ceiling down about twenty inches . It is about five and a half feet wide and three and a half feet front to back . In the top of this hood is a large capacity bathroom fan that will exhaust the fumes outside . The power to the fan goes through a rheostat so I can quiet the fan down or turn it up to move the fluxing smoke out . The hood has enough volume that it will hold the fumes without letting them leak into the room untill the fan get rid of them .
Inside the hood I have a small track lighting bar with two spotlights that I can adjust to point at what I'm working on . They are also on a rheostat and the idea seems to work out pretty well . I cast while seated but if I have a mold I want to ladle into I can stand and do that too . The bench is a double thickness of plywood glued together with fomica . That is bolted to both the wall and to pillars on the floor with lag bolts .
While casting I put a thin piece of plywood on the formica to keep it nice looking . While swaging , I clean all the other stuff off the bench and have a very clean surface for the press and other stuff .

Jack

Bigjohn

12-03-2006, 10:24 PM

Welding supply warehouses would have a ready made system which is suitable for your needs, NOW to save your self the expense of buying one; go and have a looksee and work out what you could make something simular up out of.

These are possibly one of the best systems around for the sort of work and have more power than a computor fan.

If you could modify the extraction system from a clothes dryer you would come fairly close to what is needed IMHO. It would be cheaper to make your own than buy it if you can find all the bits at a reasonable price. I would ensure there is a metal end on the system you make just so the plastic tubing can not catch fire when fluxing etc.

Best o'luck and let us know your results,

John.

lovedogs

12-03-2006, 10:59 PM

I lay a piece of plywood over the top of the kitchen range and turn on the vent fan to take the fumes out. It works great. The electric pot sits high enough that all the fumes get sucked right out. I sit on a chair in front of the stove and dump the bullets onto an old folded towel thats on a little table off to one side of me. It doesn't stink up the house or let any fumes come back at me.

Firebird

12-03-2006, 11:55 PM

Call your local kitchen remodelers and ask if they have any used stove hood & fan that they have ripped out for a remodel. If you have a friend remodeling their kitchen you can maybe get a freebee, otherwise it shouldn't be too expensive to get a unit ripped out for a remodel. Some go through the ceiling, some go through the wall; so you can ask for whatever fits your situation better.

piwo

12-04-2006, 12:07 AM

er, um... Well, after 25+ years of matrimonial bliss (that's my story and I'm sticking with it :wink: ), I doubt the "kitchen stove" method would pass muster, but I like the idea, the style, and simplicity. I suppose what I initially thought was basically an extension of that...

An excellent point about the plastic on the fan. I guess the PC fan was a little small, suppose a bathroom fan would be better. If 8 or 10 feet from the heat source, I'm pretty confident plastic wouldn't be a fire threat, but man, another thing I didn't think of....

I'll try to see if there are any welding supply warehouses in the area. Since it's something I've never investigated, I've never noticed one......

Good stuff guys... much appreciated.

shooter575

12-04-2006, 01:37 AM

I have a buddy that uses his stove top for all his casting needs.He is single though!and likely to stay that way :razz:
I use a old liberated kitchen hood unit now.For years though I cast in the basement without any real ventlation.I was real close to a big wood add on furnace so in the winter I would open the door a bit to draw in fumes to that fire.I had real good draw with a 40 chimney
But what I think you are looking for is a easy,non perm method.I think a small hood attached to a bathroom exaust fan [we call them "fart fans"] Make up a piece of plywood to fit into a window.Use the 4" ductwork made for those units.
Some duct tape,hose clamps ... I think them units go for 12-15 bucks [Newtone]in a home depot/lowes.They are about 200 cfm I seem to recall.Will not remove every last BTU from the house ether.

PatMarlin

12-04-2006, 10:52 AM

My bad weather winter wonderland.. :mrgreen:

PatMarlin

12-04-2006, 11:08 AM

Here's a pic of some years back when I first installed it. I have an inline booster duct fan from Graingers for extra suction power on a switch when I need it.

The hood was new from Home Repo. I calked the sheet metal joints on the inside of the hood so it had an air tight draw. I also put a piece of card board on the inside of the vent filter screen to keep cold air out when not in use.

Hangs from chains, and is a solid slick setup. Prolly $75 total cost and all new stuff... :drinks:

carpetman

12-04-2006, 11:45 AM

Pat Marlin--Is that sewing machine an old Singer? Does it have a walking presser foot? Looks pretty much like the one we have. My wife use to do upholstery work and put a million miles on it.

PatMarlin

12-04-2006, 12:09 PM

Yeah C-Ray, it's a Singer.

Unfortunately I wish it had a walking foot, but it doesn't. I researched the the serial number and found it's a 1907 "Tailors" model. It will sew some heavy stuff though, and operates like new. I've done gun holster mods, boat seats and cushions, etc. with it.

Only gave $150 bucks for it.. :mrgreen:

carpetman

12-04-2006, 12:36 PM

Pat Marlin---Our machine is 1927. I thought ours looked a little bigger--it does have the walking presser foot. My dad had non drinkable well water and had a water pump. When city water became available he hooked up to it and did away with the well. He traded the pump for the machine. He used it some to repair tents and gun cases and such. When my wife started doing upholstery work we were going to buy a new machine,but he gave us the old one. There was a time that we could pick up a couch or recliner after I got off from work. I would tear it down and make any needed frame repairs. Next day when I got home my wife would have it ready to deliver.

PatMarlin

12-04-2006, 12:50 PM

I have the bead type foots for sewing a bead into upholstery. It's a big machine, but just doesn't have the walking foot gearing.

Sewing machines and guns... the best made 100 years ago and still in full service. I think the only thing that will be left on the planet in the end is singers and winchesters... oops I meant Marlins :mrgreen:

piwo

12-04-2006, 02:07 PM

Thanks for the pics and additional explanations. I have some ideas now that just might work for the area I have available. If there are more of you with pics, fire away!!

I too have an old singer, but it's a portable. I think mines early 1950's, a veritable youngster compared to ya'lls. It is a powerful bugger that can sew a couple layers of boat cover canvas like it's nothing. Not many modern ones can even sew one layer of it!

Bigjohn

12-04-2006, 07:00 PM

:hijack: I think we started this thread talking about exhaust systems for casting setups and now were onto "SINGER" sewing machines.

Back when I was knee high to a grasshoppper, I remember my mother had a 'Walking Pedal' SINGER Sewing Machine; she did a lot ot work on that machine with repairs and making clothes for us kids. Used a drive belt made from leather joined with a small wire staple.
Her Mother had a 'SINGER' which looked like the pedal model but had an electric motor attached (Factory made).

Both machine use to turn upside down into the bench they were attached to and an extra board, hinged to the back edge, covered the base so you had a side board.

Back to the original subject, I believe my neighbour recently replaced his clothes dryer. I might go and salvage the parts needed from it a get to making my extractor. Also the neighbour over the back had a unit laying around but no motor; might chase him up.

Let you know.

John

carpetman

12-04-2006, 08:04 PM

BigJohn---A walking presser foot is not the same as what you are calling a walking pedal. The presser foot is that jobber do that raises up and down when you operate the lever to release or hold down the material. Most of them remain stationary,but a walking foot moves back and forth feeding the matrial. Dont get that confused with the feed dawgs underneath. My machine was originally foot operated but was converted to a motor driven. It too has the leather belt as you described.

trk

12-04-2006, 08:27 PM

My casting setup is in a dormer on 3rd floor. With a roof window just above (18") the pot. I just open up the window an inch or two and the draft from within the house keeps the air flowing up and out.

Bigjohn

12-04-2006, 10:11 PM

As I said, I was only Knee high to a grasshopper. Both the machines I mentioned could be foot driven IRC; must ask Mum about them.

The large rocker pedal which drove the main drive wheel for the belt drive was what I remember and mistook for your terminlogy.

John.

floodgate

12-05-2006, 12:03 AM

Still on the Singers: A good age test is to ask the crowd, "Did'ja ever get a toe caught under the treadle of a sewing machine?" Anyone who winces has gotta be at least over 60. (The treadle clears the floor by only about 1/2" at the fronnt of the stroke, and when your toe suddenly lifts 50 lbs of machine and table off the floor, you NOTICE it!) Then there's my wife, who remembers getting a couple of FINGERS under a moving treadle when she was three or four years old; she useta sit on the treadle and get it rocking, but reached down when she shouldn't of.

Seriously, we've got a Singer treadle operated Model 29-4 "Shoe Patcher" (the utility machine for odd jobs you used to see in any shoe repair shop*); bought it from a couple who used it to tailor deerskin clothes for the primitive crowd, after they "went electric". Had it overhauled and tuned up, and need to get it runnning on some of our lambskins. They sure built fine machinery back in the early '30's!. I also admire the gold decals on the older machines; I've thought about compiling a coffee-table book on the decal art of the late 19th and early 20th Centuries.

Back to topic: I've never worried much about lead fumes or ventilation, and I still test off the bottom of the scale. I DO generally cast out-of-doors, and stay upwind of the fluxing fumes, but that's as far as I carry it. I did get a "sick headache" from the fumes from the old Hoppity No. 9, back when my workshop was a 7' x 7" closet with NO ventilation, and I was detail cleaning a really filthy old piece (scraping 3-in-1 "varnish" out of the crevices with a razor blade), but that's the only problem I ever.... Where was I?

floodgate

* Does anyone ever even bother to repair shoes anymore? I can't believe the junk footwear I see in Big 5, "Sportsman's Guide" etc., etc.

PatMarlin

12-05-2006, 02:48 AM

I've also got a household Singer treadle, gold decals and engraved nickle silver bout 1942, and instead of the steel ornate legs, it has wood legs with the steel, which designates it as being made in England. Mint condition.

One of ya WW2 guys had to marry yourself one of those fine English gals, and had to bring her sewing machine back home with ya also.. :mrgreen:

My big old 1907 model mentioned above was first a treadle, then upgraded with a motor, but the treadle controls the motor, and there's a knee lever control also. The mortor is old as dirt and hums right along.. :drinks:

PatMarlin

12-05-2006, 02:50 AM

If you ever want to sell that shoe patcher let me know Floodgate.. :drinks:

shooter575

12-05-2006, 12:04 PM

Heehe,I was messing around with my grandmothers treadle machine when I was 4 or 5.Got my index finger under that neadle.Went right through.I was stuck.I just screamed till some one came and pushed the treadle to raise the neadle.I never thought of it at the time. I dont remember much about it but some family members allways bring it up!

PatMarlin

12-05-2006, 01:34 PM

Treadles are not easy to work. It takes a rythm, but what's amazing is how well they do work.

Took me a few hours just to sew a strip, and I could see it taking a lot of time to get good with it. Fun stuff!!

floodgate

12-05-2006, 02:07 PM

Pat:

Sorry; we're keeping it. Also, there's a neighbor who has "king dibs" on it if we ever do part with it.

Doug

PatMarlin

12-05-2006, 02:12 PM

Put me on the "B" list.. :mrgreen:

Hunter

12-05-2006, 07:52 PM

I have casted indoors a few times. I had my production pot close to the open door with 2 windows open behind it and a fan blowing across the pot. It worked well but fluxing will really smoke up the area without an over head vent. If it was very cold I am not sure how much better you would be off with this method than in an out building.

piwo

12-06-2006, 11:16 AM

Went to "ho-depot" at lunch yesterday to scout for supplies. They got 8 inch induction fans and 6 inch induction fans, (but all with plastic blades). I couldn't figure out how to put the 6 inch fan into the 6 inch sleeve without lacing my hand wide open from sharp edges, which is probably why they have guys who do that stuff for a living :???: .. Well, probably needed a pair of work gloves and I'd of done er..:-D

Unfortunately for me, I have no windows, so will need to run a vent outside by cutting through the homes siding. The spouse is more or less resolved to my madness, but warns if I ^$#^ it up, I’ll be sleeping down there!... To further complicate matters, the floor joists do not run in the advantageous direction, meaning I'd have to "score" one a bit to get the pipe to the siding... yikes.. Things just get curiouser and curiouser...

PatMarlin

12-06-2006, 01:31 PM

There's no reason you can't use plastic fans. Heck, I have a propane flame fired bottom pour casting pot under a hood with a plastic fan blade. You won't have near the heat I have.

Bigjohn

12-06-2006, 08:32 PM

Most plastic fans will take some heat exposure before melting and burning. You could instal a mesh diffuser screen between the heat source and fan! Placement of the unit may help reduce any risks.

I am still conducting research for the design of my casting bench; it is one task I keep away from other work areas. I cast yesterday with the two doors of the shed open and a good draft through the shed form the PA door two the car access. This does not always work and needs fan assist at times.

Had to work in the shed as the neighbour was watering their lawn with a sprinkler and some water was coming over the fence. Did not want a visit from the 'Tinsel Fairy'. [smilie=1:

John.

piwo

01-10-2007, 10:36 PM

Well, I went to the "ho depot" and got the parts: 24" of 6 inch aluminum vent pipe, a 6" induction fan sheathed in 6 inch aluminum pipe, and a measure of "accordion" type 6 inch venting (similar but stiffer the dryer vent). When assembled, it is lightweight, the fan will be towards the top, it sucks air very nicely, and I can insert it into the window for use within minutes. I need to assemble it permanently, and I'll take a pic. I don't worry about the heat because the vapors must travel 27" till it gets to the fan, cooling all the way.

Geez, I hope my mould shows up tomorrow or Friday! :Fire:

R.M.

01-10-2007, 10:49 PM

Piwo

Can you post the particulars on that fan, price, rating etc. I'm in the market for one, and yours sounds like it would be just what I'm after.

Thanks
R.M.

Glen

01-10-2007, 11:10 PM

I use a laboratory grade fume hood that I bought at a government surplus auction. Basically it's a glassed-in, lighted cabinet, 36" wide, 30" tall and 24" deep. Has enough room for a couple of lead pots and whatever moulds I'm working with at the time. No smoke gets out, and I can easily see what I'm doing and am protected from fumes and splatters.

piwo

01-10-2007, 11:13 PM

Piwo

Can you post the particulars on that fan, price, rating etc. I'm in the market for one, and yours sounds like it would be just what I'm after.

Thanks
R.M.

The induction fan was expensive (it's also VERY quiet) at $27.92, the 24 inch section of aluminum vent was $5.72, and the 6" X 8' piece of accordion style vent pipe was $11.99.

More then I wanted to spend, just under $50 all new parts, but if it allows me to cast indoors during all seasons, WELL WORTH IT. Won't know till I do it, but I'll cast this weekend with it with either roundball, or the new MOULD if it arrives, so I'll have a full report when I do.

I use a laboratory grade fume hood that I bought at a government surplus auction. Basically it's a glassed-in, lighted cabinet, 36" wide, 30" tall and 24" deep. Has enough room for a couple of lead pots and whatever moulds I'm working with at the time. No smoke gets out, and I can easily see what I'm doing and am protected from fumes and splatters.

That sounds like a REAL sweet seatup!

wills

01-10-2007, 11:43 PM

http://www.aprilrainshowers.com/E/egyptian-slave-with-fan-t-b.gif

piwo

01-11-2007, 12:07 AM

http://www.aprilrainshowers.com/E/egyptian-slave-with-fan-t-b.gif

Uh oh, there's a couple ways to take this visual :shock: :-D

Bubba w/a 45/70

01-11-2007, 01:13 AM

Bubba w/a 45/70

01-11-2007, 01:19 AM

Oh, and as to the ventilation questation....I just attatched a box fan to the screen part of my screen door in my lower level garage. When it is time to cast/smelt, I just open up the wooden/main door, plug in the fan, open up a small casement window, and make sure the door leading back into the basement of the house is closed.

I cast pretty much right next to the door/fan area, so the fumes don't have far to travel to exit the building.

Happy casting is done this way. Real cheap too, as the fan was my wife's before we were married....

Sundogg1911

01-11-2007, 11:42 PM

I have a 16' x 20' barn style building that I built. The upstairs is a computer office (I had to write it off some how! ) down stairs I have a work bench with a range hood from a kitchen stove with stainless sheetmetal backplate and sides. seems to work fine for me.

piwo

01-12-2007, 09:50 AM

Well, my mould is in, my ventilation "rig" is set, so "a-casting we will go" this weekend. I'll let you know if I set the smoke detector off downstairs! :-D

Also talked to my cousin's husband, who is a plumber. He collects the scrap metals from jobs and turns them in once a year. I had sent an email the day before yesterday asking him about it, if I could buy some of his scrap lead off him. He had turned in his year’s collection on Friday, Jan 5. He had 1,180 lbs of lead alone! This is a one man business plumber, and in a year 1,180 lbs of lead :shock: ! So when someone asks you where's a good source of soft lead, ASK A PLUMBER! He said he is starting a commercial job next week, so he thought he could get me a bunch in the next few months...
:drinks: :bigsmyl2:

LAH

01-13-2007, 12:21 PM

I used a plywood hood and a stove exhaust fan.......Creeker

piwo

01-13-2007, 07:56 PM

Well, I cast my first boollits today. I’d give them a C, C+ (I went to a Parochial school, so use that curve)… Firstly, I believe I grossly overheated my REAL .54 mould by letting the corner sit in the lead for closer to 1.5 minutes, as opposed to 15-20 seconds. An urgent request from upstairs summoned me (shattering of glass upstairs) and I let it sit in the mix. I actually thought I have forever ruined it (maybe I did) since when you closed it, the damn thing wouldn’t align itself into a perfect mould unless you manipulated the hell out of it with your hand (not advisable). So I went to cast roundball instead. Put my mould on the handle, and noticed that while closed, I could still see daylight between the halves. This wasn’t shaping up for a good day. I cast a bunch of roundball, and the “daylight” of course transcended as a line in the lead, and if you ran your finger across the ball, it would stick on that spot. Crap.

So I melted down the rest of the dental lead my wife’s been saving for me and cast it into ingots, and called it a day. Almost.

I fired it all back up a few hours later, and tried the boollit mold again. I figured out how I could get it all to align correctly using the wooden handle, and began to cast again. A few observations:

1) My difficulties in November (when I joined the forum) were indeed because of temperature of the lead. I cranked it up, and the galena poured like a silver mountain stream, and cast very well……….

2) I bought some soap stone from the hardware store, and it is a wonderful release agent. NO PROBLEMS….

3) My make shift ventilation system worked VERY well, and was the only reason I was able to cast today, as it is in the 20’s today with freezing rain. I put a smoke detector a few feet away, and after casting for several hours, not a peep out of it. While melting down the dental lead, there would be tremendous clouds of smoke from time to time, and every bit was sucked up and out the window. Very nice.

My boollits eventually cast OK. I ended up casting only 81 for record, with 62 of them being within 1.5 grains of each other. Not a terribly impressive number and quality control, but this was a learning venture, and I hope to do a little better tomorrow. If the roads are OK in the county on Monday (more freezing rain predicted for tonight and tomorrow), I’ll shoot some of these REAL conicals’ at the club and see how they do…

MT Gianni

01-13-2007, 09:45 PM

piwo, check to make sure that no lead is between the alignment pins and or face on the 54 cal mold. I try to always make sure that I am closed tight when preheating. Gianni.

twoworms

01-14-2007, 03:58 PM

I cast in a bath room in my basement, I use the vent fan that was in the bath room.

The first time I tryed it shut the door, that didn't work as there was little to no air movement in the room. Now I leave the door open about 1", that lets the air in to vent the room. So far so good...

Tim

Sundogg1911

01-16-2007, 07:48 PM

PatMarlin. my setup looks almost exact! chain and all. my range hood goes straight out the wall, for a little better airflow. I bought it at a garage sale still in the box for $15, and then spent $25,000 building a 2 story utility building around it!

piwo

01-16-2007, 09:06 PM

Well, here's my setup, in temp. mode. It's weighs about 2lbs, the fan is at the point where the solid pipe meets the flex pipe, held (temporarily) with baling wire. The foam on the end is oversized, so it snugs up and prevents air from coming into the house (it's about 12 degrees F here), and it sucks up all the smoke. The basement windows slide open in two halves, so it's a ready made hole for the foam. You can see two bags of dental lead at the back of the table in bags, and when you add a big glob to the pot, it smokes A LOT. Fan sucks it all out. I've got to cut some chains to the appropriate lengths for anchoring, and put a proper plug on the fan for permanent use. I can take it down, store it, and whip it back up there in about 2 minutes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/jsquaredjcubed/AMMO/vent.jpg

I like it, and so does the spouse. In just a few minutes, the area can look like I was never there.:)