Cheapest way to improve Range Lead

[Colorado4wheel]

I get free range lead. Today I had a hard time making nice bullets and was getting frustrated. I had some soldier on the bench and put a 12" line of soldier in my 20 lb pot. Seemed to help a little. So I grabbed a 1 lb ingot of WW lead and threw that in. That helped a lot. Perfect bullets. Best I have made in a while. So I made 3 pots of lead and used two more 1 pound ingots in the process. Very nice bullets were the result. So now I need to figure out what to do as a long term solution. I hate scrounge WW so thats kind out. IF, and I hate saying this, IF I bought something to add to my range scrape what would be the cheapest way to get similiar results? Keep in mind I am making pistol bullets in quantity. They don't have to be perfect, but they need to cast up with nice edges and fill out of course. Before adding that soldier and WW's mixture they would only fill out at much higher temps. I don't like casting at really high temps either.

[sargenv]

The thing that I do.. is I melt all my range scrap in batches.. I tend to water quench my ingots so I know what my finished BHN will be. I let them sit for a week or so and then do the BHN test. I test usually a half a dozen random ingots, and then get an average and then label them as such. My range lead can be anywhere from 8-14 BHN (in batches). The softer stuff I use for swaging cores, the harder stuff I use for blending in my bullet alloys. Usually mixed 50/50 with WW ingots so that I can stretch the WW's a bit.

[Ford SD]

From your post i get the impression that the range lead you picked up is from 22rim

22rim = pure lead and pure lead does not cast very good

Solder = tin = better fill out

WW will also help fill out and will make the bullets harder

[Colorado4wheel]

Lead is from a pistol range. It gets a lot of FMJ and Cowboy shooting use. Mostly FMJ stuff I would think but who can guess really. My water dropped bullets before adding this stuff were at about a 18 BHN.

[gray wolf]

18 sounds a little high for range scrap ?? I thought it would be more like 9 - 14.
But who knows EH. Anyway 18 would tell me it's not very soft, surly not as soft as my range scrap. Sometimes we need to cast hot to get good fill out. What are you calling hot and what was the difference in the temp ? after you added the WW and Tin ?
You could always get some WW ingots from a member here on the forum. Most guy's are very good about it and the cost is very good for all the work they do.
If you think WW are the answer to your problem it seems like an easy fix.

I just noticed you said water dropped--OK --that could be why the extra hardness. It doesn't sound like that metal has a lot of pure in it. What handguns are you loading for ? and do you have to have them that hard ?

[zomby woof]

50/50 RS/WW WQ rifle loads up to 1900 fps

20/80 WW/RS WQ for handgun

My indoor scrap is the same as yours.

[bumpo628]

You could easily do a trade for WW lead with some of the other members in the S&S section. Each person pay their own postage for equal weights of range lead for WW.

[Colorado4wheel]

18 sounds a little high for range scrap ?? I thought it would be more like 9 - 14.
But who knows EH. Anyway 18 would tell me it's not very soft, surly not as soft as my range scrap. Sometimes we need to cast hot to get good fill out. What are you calling hot and what was the difference in the temp ? after you added the WW and Tin ?
You could always get some WW ingots from a member here on the forum. Most guy's are very good about it and the cost is very good for all the work they do.
If you think WW are the answer to your problem it seems like an easy fix.

I just noticed you said water dropped--OK --that could be why the extra hardness. It doesn't sound like that metal has a lot of pure in it. What handguns are you loading for ? and do you have to have them that hard ?

I load for a KKM barrel in my Glock with Solo 1000. I have tried a bunch of different hardness and that is what works best. No leading and I can shoot K's at a time with out cleaning if I want to. I think I need the extra hardness because I am shooting a pretty fast powder with a 155gr bullet (9mm 147gr Lyman mold).

[lylejb]

You could easily do a trade for WW lead with some of the other members in the S&S section. Each person pay their own postage for equal weights of range lead for WW.

+1 bumpo

If adding some WW to the mix solved the problem, thats an easy fix.

post a trade in the swappin and sellin section, and someone will take you up on that, or you could sell a couple of boxes of your range scrap ingots, then just buy WW ingots. Either way, it will cost you little, and your problem is solved.

[Larry Gibson]

Lead is from a pistol range. It gets a lot of FMJ and Cowboy shooting use. Mostly FMJ stuff I would think but who can guess really. My water dropped bullets before adding this stuff were at about a 18 BHN.


I currently have 470 +/- lbs of very similar range lead. A lot of the commercial cast bullets are very hard with a lot of antimony in them. Also if the alloy in the FMJs is not pure lead it most often is just lead/antimony. When cast into bullets they have a BHN at 12 days of 10 - 11 and mine also were 16 - 18 BHn when WQ'd. The bullets had a real crystline structure and frosted easily. I add pure tin at 2-3% and then get very good bullets at 12-14 BHN and they WQ at 20 -22 BHN then. Pretty much like current WWs alloy does.

Larry Gibson

[Colorado4wheel]

If I add tin how hot does the lead need to be?

[Larry Gibson]

I normally cast at 725 - 750 with that alloy. I add the tin into the pot with the range lead ingots. Once the alloy has melted and is up to temp (takes about 20 -30 minutes with the Lyman Mag 20) I flux well once and start casting.

Larry Gibson

[blasternank]

Tag for future reference.

[truckjohn]

I think it would help in this case to do some math - to see how much addition you are really adding.....

My solder - 95/5.... 2-ft = 1 oz of solder... 1 oz of Sn into 20 lbs of melt = 0.3%...

You need 6-oz of Sn to get 2% Sn in a mixture... so if I figure I am halfway off - I would need to add about 6-ft of my solder to add 1% more Sn....

Antimony... Say I add 1-lb of chilled shot at 8% Antimony when I make my 20lb mix.... That's a 0.4% Sb bump.... Not really all that much.....

I think the answer is that your range scrap is really pretty close to right if you can add 1-ft of solder (Maybe 1/2 oz - 0.15%) and a few lbs of wheel weight and make it behave nicely.... I think the reality is that it isn't really doing anything much to the alloy... you are probably changing your casting and quenching technique to get better results....

Likely you will have to add Superhard... 1 lb of Superhard at 30% Sb = 1.5% bump when mixed into a 20 lb batch....

Same for the Solder - you need 3-oz of 95% solder to give you a 1% Sn bump - which is about 6ft of my solder....

Now... The "Cheapest" possible way to do it would be to try to segregate range scrap out into "Like material" piles... 22rf and muzzle loader balls in 1 pile... Jacketed bullets in another pile, and Cast bullets into the last pile..... Then "Smelt" it down by pile - and keep it separate.... The pile of cast bullets will melt down into the Hardest pile, the 22rf and muzzle loader ball will end up mostly pure lead, and the J-bullets will end up in the middle somewhere.

Thanks

[Colorado4wheel]

I added about 1 lb of WW to get a nice improvement. I guess the math guy is right. My mix is pretty close to good. So if I bought some tin, it would last a long time with this particular batch/type of lead. I assume tin and soldier are the same basic thing?

[buyobuyo]

There is tin in solder (no I), but it comes in different mixtures. Generally, it is a mix of tin and lead. 50/50 and 60/40 are two of the most common solders. The first number is the tin percentage and the second is lead.

However, there is also lead-free solder, which is tin and something else. From what I've seen silver and antimony are common. I have some that is 95/5 tin/antimony.


I think the easiest way for you to get WW lead is to have Jack's SIL spirit some away the next time he's laid up. He'll never notice. :veryconfu :lol:

[fredj338]

Range lead can very quite a bit. A lot of FMJ & 22lr, it's gonna be soft. More cast bullets, it's gonna be harder. Adding linotype or ww helps a lot. Adding tin helps casting but doesn't make them much "harder". So buying known ww alloy to add or lino is probably the cheapest way to toughen up your soft ange lead. Water dropping works too, depending on the range scrap, 14BHN-18BHN is acheiveable.

[iomskp]

Hello Folks
I have been reading with great interest about the problems and solutions with range lead, I just got 1000 pounds of it from an indoor range and was thinking all would be rosy for a year or two.

Regards iomskp

[bslim]

I've just run accross a bunch of solder that is 70-30. must be new production, but tin is tin, no matter what the ratio is?

[RugerFan]

... pure lead does not cast very good


Actually pure lead casts great. It likes lots of heat, so you may need to crank up the temp on your pot.

[fredj338]

Actually pure lead casts great. It likes lots of heat, so you may need to crank up the temp on your pot.

Maybe for round ball or paper patch, but the more intricate the bullet design the tougher it is to get good fill out w/ pure lead. Happily, adding 1% or so of tin males casting & goof fill out much easier.

[Colorado4wheel]

Sounds like finding a bunch of tin is my best option. All I really want to do is improve fill out. I guess WW's if I can find them is a option but I am sick of begging for **** from tire shops.

[mold maker]

Your not alone about the begging for WWs. I hate it also, but their the source, so suck it up and grovel if ya have to. Actually I told my garage-tire store that my families 7 vehicles would get serviced where I get my WWs.
I go by every week and pick up what they have for free. Ever month or two, I make it a lunch time run with a large pizza in hand. I always take buckets with me to swap and they even load them for me.
Pizza cost about $11-14. and the WW yield is about 170lbs/month, after sorting. This is a 4 year relationship, that has given me about a 3 1/2 tons of WW ingots.
I also stop at a trucking co. where I know the tire man. He slips me a box (25-30lbs) of the big truck weights for a box of boolits. Truck WWs are harder than car WW lead and contain a very small % of copper, which doesn't hurt a thing.
It's getting hard to find new sources for WWs. and I'm thankful for ever lb I get. The days of free lead from any source are numbered. Get it while ya can, and hoard it like gold.

[RugerFan]

Maybe for round ball or paper patch, but the more intricate the bullet design the tougher it is to get good fill out w/ pure lead...

That could be said for any given alloy as well. I've had no problem with pure lead filling out moulds with multiple lube grooves. Just crank up the heat.