Comverting brass

[Jim]

I converted some .30-06 mil spec brass to 6.5 X 55 today. I don't have the upper body strength I used to or the weight to push the '06 case in to the 6.5 F/L die, so I put an extension handle on my heaviest press. I put a handle from a 12 ton bottle jack over the press handle and extended it from the original 13.5 " to 27", doubling the leverage.
Below, you can see how long the handle is on the right side press.
http://fgsp.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/photos-0062-e1301072742313.jpg

Here's a shot of a .30-06 case right out of the 6.5 F/L die.
http://fgsp.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/photos-0031-e1301072992354.jpg

And here's a shot of a new 6.5 case, yet to be trimmed to length, next to a .30-06 case, yet to be formed.
http://fgsp.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/photos-0042-e1301072868342.jpg

I found that some of the cases wrinkled at the shoulder when I first started because I had a bit too much lube on them. I quit using my lube pad and switched to hand lubing. I applied a drop of 80 weight oil to the palm of my hand and rolled the cases between my hands. That lightened the amount of oil on the surface of the cases and the wrinkling stopped.

[rattletrap1970]

I have done this also. I will tell you that if you size them first with a 7mm-08 sizer, then switch to 6.5x55, you will almost never ruin brass. Also, use imperial sizing wax, nothing else works as good.

[Jim]

I have done this also. I will tell you that if you size them first with a 7mm-08 sizer, then switch to 6.5x55, you will almost never ruin brass. Also, use imperial sizing wax, nothing else works as good.

Thanks for the tip! I'll see about getting one. Truth be told, I had a 74% success rate on this go 'round. I started with 50 cases and wrinkled the shoulders of 13. On the other hand, I've got about 300 of the '06 brass I'm converting from, so I figure I could lose 13 and it wouldn't hurt me that bad.

First time I did this, I was concerned that I might have to turn the necks. Come to find out, the neck area of the chamber seems to be big enough to accommodate the thick necks. I can load .264 J bullets or .266 sized cast and they both chamber fine.

Th' luck o' the Irish, me lad!:wink:

[Bad Water Bill]

Jim That guy from Alaska sells some blue liquid with ROUND bottoms that I used when I did the same thing. 0 defects. Try it you'l like it.

:CastBoolitsisbest:

[Molly]

Why use '06 cases? Even if they're all you have, someone will be glad to swap you for 7x57, which will form to 6.5x55 a LOT easier. Been there, done that, and shot the dickins out of the result.

[shagg]

I reform 06 cases (and a few others ) to 8x57 on a regular basis. I have found a few that i will have to ream the necks because of thicker brass lower down the 06 cases.

[higgins]

In my 8mm, the thicker brass from further down on the '06 case makes for a better fit in the neck area than factory 8mm brass, which leaves quite a bit of room in the genrous chamber. However, the thicker neck may be too tight in some rifles.

[CATS]

Jim,
This may be too much work for you, but if not you will have fewer oil dents.
Size half way then lift the handle back up and wipe the oil ring on the neck down on the case with your finger down past where the new shoulder will be. This will decrease the build up and stop or decrease the oil dents. For me, if the oil dent is small and curved I will still fire form it. If the oil dent is sharp or has a crease in it goes in my scrap bin. Do what you feel is safe. There are some some good you tube vids on this.
CATS

[Von Gruff]

Jim did you anneal the cases as that can take the "hard"out of the sizing process and save some of the wrinkles which is sometimes due to harder brass rather than too much lube. I understand from another source that a small hole drilled into the die, on two sides, in the middle of the shoulder will give any excess lube and escape so that the pressure will not leave a lube dent.

I have turned 30-06 brass into 7x57 and 223 into 20-221 but I annealed first and lessened my losses to practically zero.

Von Gruff.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I used STP for hard forming until I learned about the Imperial Sizing Wax.

The STP worked really great, but was the pits to clean up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AS per neck reaming, I prefer neck turning, as it seems like it should keep the neck a bit more true and less chance of being "Off Center".

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[gnoahhh]

I formed 5.5x55 brass out of '06s way back in the days before 6.5 brass was common. Haven't seen the need for it since. One thing I do remember from that was the head diameter was enough smaller than normal for 6.5x55's that case life with the home made stuff was nil. One or two firings before swelling got scary enough to stop using them. Has anything changed in that regard?

[nanuk]

From what I have read, pretty much all domestic commercial x55 brass has the same head as the -06 class...

probably manufacturing ease.

I'm gonna take some to work and measure it.


Thanks Jim for the pics. I will be trying this also very soon!

[quasi]

Jim, the press you picture with the snipe on the handle does not have a compound leverage design, which is probably why you needed the snipe. Now that I think of it, I once put a snipe on the handle of a Rockchucker, which does have compound leverage. I was sizing 7.62 Nato IVI brass fired in 1919 Brownings with the head space adjusted a little loose. I used RCBS small base dies, the press cracked across the top after 2000 rds or so.

[izzyjoe]

others are right you might want to anneal your cases first, and if you'll remove the decap/expander rod as well it will help to. the main thing is to keep it simple one step at a time.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Guess this would be a case by case issue.

Such things as .308 to .243, or 30/30 to 25/35 are simple one step, in and out of the sizing die situations.

Of course, with a good sizing lube!

On the 308 to 243 conversion, you DO NEED to include the step of neck turning in the process, or face the possibility of a damaged/wrecked rifle.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[mpkunz]

Along the same lines, anyone know of a place to get unfinished rifle brass ? Ie, .30-'06 cases that are still straight ?

[John Boy]

I found that some of the cases wrinkled at the shoulder when I first started because I had a bit too much lube on them. Use Bag Balm, in your friendly drug store

[Artful]

Jim, I can recommend imperial sizing wax and lanolin (which is in bag balm) both excellent, reforming in progressive dies takes a lot of the work out. Watch the neck thickness you may need to ream/thin the brass. To avoid wrinkles you may need to just lube from web up to about where the shoulder will be. Annealing should be done to avoid neck splits (usually down by the shoulder) - makes a feller made when all the work goes out the window.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I keep seeing "reaming" being spoken of in regards to solving the problem with necks which are possibly thick enough to cause excessive, possibly greatly excessive, pressures.

I suspect reaming will be quicker and easier, but I doubt it will be as good.

If the case neck is out of center, neck thicker on one side then the other, that will remain a problem because of the reamer following the center of the hole.

On the other hand, Case neck turning is done in such a way that the case neck becomes uniform in thickness during the process.

Because of this, "run out" or centering of the bullet will become more precise with neck turning when compared to neck reaming.

Note I am not saying neck turning is easier/faster, just better.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Chicken Thief]

I have 400 pcs. Norma original once fired sized and tumbled 6.5x55 that's yours for the shipping from Denmark!

Shipping is $78 btv.

PM me if interested.

[Olevern]

Looks a lot like work to me!

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Lots of work, maybe. But there are times, like most of the time, when I have more time then money.

Then there is the "just cause I can" factor, kind of like mak'in your own boolits.:cast_boolits:

Keep em coming! :guntootsmiley:

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[nanuk]

I suspect reaming will be quicker and easier, but I doubt it will be as good.

If the case neck is out of center, neck thicker on one side then the other, that will remain a problem because of the reamer following the center of the hole.

On the other hand, Case neck turning is done in such a way that the case neck becomes uniform in thickness during the process.

Because of this, "run out" or centering of the bullet will become more precise with neck turning when compared to neck reaming.
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

Crusty, if the neck is out of center, and you turn the outside, you will just be turning the outside to an out of center hole... so the whole neck would be out of center.

but when I read about REAMING, the fired case was forced into a die, which held it true (well as long as the die was reamed true) then the die acted as a guide for the reamer to enter the case dead nuts centered and only removed brass from the neck area that was thicker....

what am I missing?

I do understand the inside reamers that ream unsupported such as the sinclairs that work on the trimmers, would "Follow" the hole and ream off center, but the outside ones would also ream off center as they turn around a mandrel, that sits in the uncentered neck.

So does the Neck true up again after FL sizing?

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Nanuk,

Not having followed the inside reamers, because of not wanting to follow the off center neck, I was NOT aware of any set ups which would do as you indicate would happen with a die/reamer setup.

That should take care of my concern.

With the outside neck turner, the wall thickness IS trued up, which would not be the case with a reamer which would not in some way be forced to cut off/out metal other then by following the case neck center.

When outside turning, metal is cut off the high/thick side of the neck. I can see where this still might be off center, but as you indicate, once fired this should no longer be an issue.

AS stated, I just always felt it was better to get the case neck thickness uniform so went with the outside turning.

It IS surprising just how much metal will come off the "high" sides of some case necks.

I do think reaming would be easier and faster then outside turning, PROVIDING the reamer DIDN'T follow the center line of the case throat.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[nanuk]

I have seen a writeup on a set of loading tools, I think it was in an old NRA book

there were tools called something like BenchRest... they were like LEE Loader tools, and included a reamer that reamed the inside of the neck using a die where the fired case was forced into, to the OD was true, and then the reamer was turned into the neck, the die opening acting as a bushing to control the reamer.

I think RCBS made one too. I think Ken Howell referenced it in his book

but I have done some reading on the Outside turners, and now I fully understand how they work. and after turning, a run through a FL die would true up the neck. even if it was pulled over, the shoulder would bear the brunt, and the neck would remain consistant.

I think I need to find me one of those

[Molly]

I have seen a writeup on a set of loading tools, I think it was in an old NRA book

there were tools called something like BenchRest... they were like LEE Loader tools, and included a reamer that reamed the inside of the neck using a die where the fired case was forced into, to the OD was true, and then the reamer was turned into the neck, the die opening acting as a bushing to control the reamer.


I think you may have seen something on the Target Model Lee Loader. I've had a number of them, and that's EXACTLY how they work.

[lavenatti]

Anyone trim the cases first?

I've made 8mm mauser from 30-06 and there's a lot less work to do without resizing all that extra brass.

[gnoahhh]

My eyebrows shot up in wonder when I read that today's commercial U.S. manufacturers use '06 head diameter brass to form 6.5x55's. Obviously I moved on from 6.5x55's years ago after wringing out a M70 Fwt and a bunch of Swede Mausers in that caliber, but I doubt things have changed. I recalled a difference of .006" or so between the two head diameters so I looked it up in several manuals, and sure enough, that's what it is. That is a pretty serious difference. I know my memory isn't faulty also concerning the fact that 6.5x55 brass made from .30/06's lasted about two minutes in the Swedes and Winchester due to that huge difference. Why would the companies today do such a stupid thing? Do they figure that the vast majority of 6.5x55 shooters don't reload and hence the dramatic swelling is of no concern? Seems kind of imprudent to me.

Of course, maybe 6.5x55 Mauser chambers have shrunk since I fooled with them. I heard that's what happens if you get one wet.:roll:

For Pete's sake, only neck size after fireforming if you go this route, and monitor the insides of the cases for signs of seperation. I'm not kidding when I say I had some close calls doing this. All it takes is for the brass to be at the low end of dimensional tolerance and the rifle chamber to be at the high end of dimensional tolerance for the situation to worsen.

[nanuk]

Pulling up an old thread to clarify something

I guess I spoke out of turn.

I measured some of my 6.5x55 recent purchases

Remington brass. marked R-P 6.5x55 SWEDISH: Rim 0.4731 base 0.4741

Century brass. marked MMY (?) 6.5x55: Rim 0.4776 base 0.4770

Century brass as above, once fired: base measured 0.4781

so I got 0.0011 expansion on my once firing.

just for comparison, on a FRONTIER marked 30.06, unfired, I got 0.4646 on the base.

so what I have read in the past does not play out.
the .06 brass is obviously a different size.to start with. Once fired, it appears I can expect an expansion (bulge) of around 0.0135

That bulge would surely show.but I can't see it being detrimental to brass life if fireforming is done well and centered, and the loads were lower pressure for CB.

one thing I did note, the shoulder expanded from 0.4350 to 0.4415. 0.0065 that seems like quite a bit. BUT the shoulder appears to the naked eye to have been shortened. Like an Ackley style. fatter, but shorter from bolt face to shoulder start.
(the Remington has an even smaller diameter "prefired" shoulder)

Now, this was fired in a 6.5 M96 that, I was told, has had the barrel removed, and tapered to remove the steps. But it does look like a different barrel completely, so may have been chambered to tighter tolerances. ( I just pushed a J-word into the fired case (MMY) and it JUST slides in, no resistance but you can feel the neck touching the brass. looks like I must have bumped that neck some. measured unfired neck=0.293 fired=0.300 a difference of 0.007 not as tight as I thoughtThat tells me this is NOT an original barrel. Now I need to measure the twist rate on that one.)

I will have to fire some in my M38 before I disassemble it completely to borrow some parts for another. it still sports the original stepped barrel, and measure those.