500 S&W "long" brass

[Hackleback]

Two Worms has a 500 S&W Encore barrel that has a very long throat, to the point that it will not shoot cast very well. He has contacted TC and they say that all the barrels are this way. I am assiting Two Worms in making some 500 S&W "long" brass in hopes that he will be able to get the bullet closer to the rifleing and improve performance. It appears the the reason for the long throat is to provide "free bore" to keep pressures down.

I am looking for a parent carterage to base this project on. The current best hope is looking like 7.62 X 54 R. Other potential brass would be appriciated.

I hope that Two Worms will chime in here and give you all the low down and conversations he has had with TC on this subject.

Thanks

[twoworms]

Hackleback,

Today I tried to fireform brass from 7.62X54R in my 500S&W. I used 16grains of Unique and a case full of cornmeal. When I fired the round it blew the neck apart. Maybe the load was to hot or the brass got to thin but it didn't work.

I'm still looking for a way to make brass or find a case that can be cut back to about 2".

A call to TC gave me no hope of getting a barrel with a shorter leade. The guy over repair said they could send me a barrel again but it would be like the last two I have seen. He also said they have two reamers, both are cut the same. In so many words he said this was to keep the pressure down.

I don't see how I'm going to get my (440gr) cast boolit to shoot in a barrel with a leade that long. I have seated my 440 gr gas checked boolits to max oal and then still don't shoot well.

Any help you or other members can give on this project would be welcome.

Thank you,

Tim C.

[Hackleback]

:-? Can't even get buckshot et. al. to weight in on this:-?

May have to go with some custom made brass from Rocky Mountain Cartidge.

[powderburnerr]

have you checked out 348 win brass . you may have to turn off the head and cut a groove but it is a good design platform for 50 cal makeover....Dean

[twoworms]

I made two rounds out of 45-70 brass, the web of the case may be a bit small and not open up. But its chambers the boolits I want to shoot and I can load up to the lands or back off a bit.

I had to take a ton of brass off the rim and cut a little on the case head to get it to work. This brass would be for light loads only.

I'll post if it works out.

Tim

[475/480]

? Can you go with a cast bullet with a longer nose(ie: .500"-.700")
I have some SW 500 moulds with noselengths of .525" to 575" .The weight on these are 465gr,515gr,575gr and 630gr,if you would like to try some just to see if the longer nose helps, PM me I will send you some samples.
I do have load data for all of these.
Sean

[twoworms]

I have made up two rounds of longer brass to test. I will use a light load and test them to see if there is any hope of improved group size with the longer brass. If not I'll have a 20" long Encore barrel for sale real soon.



Tim

P.S. If it works well, I'll pass on the info about the brass I used and loads tested.

[Dale53]

TC has been known for many years to do a poor job chambering Contendors and their other products. The only REAL solution is to get a Custom Barrel from SSK Industries or someone else of like quality. Here is the real story on factory TC barrels:

http://www.bellmtcs.com/FAQ/about_factory_barrels.htm

Dale53

[only1asterisk]

Tim,

This sounds like a ideal barrel to test my new .500 Handy round (50-110 necked down to take .500" bullets) assuming you want to mess with a new wildcat. If you fed up and decide to sell, let me know.

David

[Hackleback]

Twoworms was able to make two pieces of 500 S&W Long out of 45-70 brass. Loaded both with a light load of Unique and some cast, shot both. He is happy to say that all appendages are still intact. I think he is planning on going to the range this weekend with some reloading gear and do some shooting to determine if groups are improved. He also has contacted Rocky Mountian Cartrage and they are willing to produce some brass at a price. 20 pcs for just under $50. Sounds like a lot but these are made on a lathe from solid bar stock- the price now sounds quite good for the amount of work to be done.

The saga continues ......

[twoworms]

Only1,

Your new round sounds good to me. I'll let your know how it works out and if need we can talk. But I hope the report is a good one.

Hackleback,

Thanks for your help.

Tim

[Rafe Covington]

Dale 53, I have been shooting those "poor quality" barrels for years, all my barrels are accurate. It would be a real good idea not to knock everything that
T-C makes to satisfy your personal opinions. I have shot cast and jacketed with no problems, gee golly it sure is neat being the only person in the world that has accurate T-C barrels.

[twoworms]

I tested the longer 500S&W brass today with my loads and 440cast boolit. The group size was the same as before, no hope here of finding a good shooting lead boolit at this time.

I also fired some Speer Gold Dot 300grainers, from the factory brass. They shot into .75 to 1.0" groups at 50 yards. Looks like I found a hunting load if needed.

Tim...

P.S. Thanks Hackleback for the idea of using the Speer Gold Dot's.

[500bfrman]

Have you tried shooting anything bigger than a 440? Just wondered if a bigger boolit might help. like 475/480 said.

[twoworms]

I have not tryed anything other than 440's cast from WW to date. I have some 600gr and 700gr onhand and could use them to test... But don't have plinking load data for them.

If I find a 600gr or more that works I will need a mold for it also.

Tim

[snowwolfe]

Have you tried seating the bullets out further till they almost engage the rifling?

[Hackleback]

Have you tried seating the bullets out further till they almost engage the rifling?


That is the idea with the "long" brass- to get the bullet closer to the rifling. The throat is so long in these chambers that you can not touch the riflingin the standard 500 case even with the bullet seated all the way out. Tim dropped a cast bullet into the chamber, then a piece for brass in as well and he could close the chamber. I think we need to investigate larger (longer) bullets to see if we can seat then out and reach the rifling.

We will continue to work on this


As a side note, I have had good luck with the Speer Golddots, they just seem to shoot! Most are designed as low velocity pistol bullets (800-1000 fps). Pushing them faster in magnum pistols or rifle cals such as 35 Rem., they have a tendency to expand violently. Much fun if you are shooting water jugs, fruit...
They do shoot well!!! Try them out if you have a gun that you cant seem to shoot for you.

[JFE]

I think there are quite a few straight walled cartridges with this sort of frustrating throating. If you dont get any joy here you may want to contact Veral Smith on Grey Beard Outdoors and see what he suggests.
Joe

[Lloyd Smale]

what alloy are you casting out of. If it will shoot jacketed well id try going to a harder alloy and seeing if that helps.

[twoworms]

Lloyd Smale,

I tryed real hard boolits the didn't shoot well. There are many things to try before I give up, just takes time and a little planing.

[twoworms]

There is hope...

Today I was thinking about my problem with cast boolits in the Encore barrel. I was going over my notes from the past and it came to me. The barrel looked fouled from the leade out about 4" to 5", it looked like lube. (Lots of Lube.) I was thinking that the hot gas from the load I was shooting melted the lube and blew it into the barrel before the boolit got there. (That can't do the boolit any good on its way down the barrel.)

So I loaded 10 rounds of my WW cast boolit with a gascheck dry, not a bit of lube on the boolit. I then tested the rounds at 50yards with a 3X9 scope on the rifle.

My first shot at 50 yards failed to hit a 17"x22" paper target. In the past the first hit near the center of the target. My 2ed, and 3rd shot didn't hit the paper. Now I'm getting a little ticked, I drove 16 miles at night to shoot in the dark with my new load and its not working at all. So I fire two more shoots at the paper without trying very hard, one is low right 6" and the other high 4". Hmmmm?

To make a long story short my last 5 shots went under 2" ctc with the last 4 going under 1.25" ctc. The barrel looks ok and is not leaded, I plan to take it out again without cleaning it and see if it shoots well or not.

Could this be what it takes to make this barrel shoot? Or was it just luck on the last 5 shots?

Tim