My **** Hit the Fan Kit

[Sprue]

I just made an all leather case last week. If any **** HTF scenario breaks loose, I have a kit ready to pick up and get mobile.

My kit contains a G26 w/3 10 round mags, one 10 +1 Mag and 3 thirty- three rnd mags along with a fire steal, tinder , flashlight, cotton balls, 25 feet of paracord and two boxes of live rounds, a double mag holder, snap on holster, leatherman, knife, pencil and paper.

The fire starter kit is in a smaller latched pouch the incorporates a belt attachment spring if necessary.

I'm not paranoid, it was just a fun project which (doubtfully) possibly could pay off one day. It has no previsions for MRI's and the sort.

I just learned a couple months ago that cotton would burn. The fire steel lights the cotton balls right up. I also dabbed them in vaseline which increases burn time for tinder.

I probably need to make a shoulder strap for other clip-on kits.

Also learned to make some interesting knots.

That said, its all been lots of fun being a kid, in this 56 yr old tinkerers body. Its all been well worth the effort & time spent.

Next I think I will make up a small necessary kit for my Marlin 1894 (357 mag). That would be light in the weight department plus the ammo won't require a lot of space.

The 9mm kit kinda looks like this:

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh266/spilihp_2007/6e9d92bf.jpg

[lbaize3]

The leather case is well made. Hope you don't have the problem I had. I made one bag ready for my M1A, with mags, ammo, survival gear, etc. Then I had to make a bag for food and water and medicines. My wife then wanted a bag for her 32-20 rifle and pistols, complete with her own survival gear should we be separated. Then I realized I needed another bag for my P16-40 pistols and ammo. Sure glad I have a pickup truck. Now all I need is a forklift to load it with.:shock:

[dk17hmr]

Here is what I make, its nice because if you have a rifle with you your gear is there also, the stuff isnt ment for every day use although it can be taken out of the sling it is hard to get it back in.

Little over 170 feet of paracord,
CKRT M16 folding knife
Zip Ties,
Carabiners,
Small 5/8" key rings,
Fire Striker,
Mini Mini Mag Lite,

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/DSCN2998.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/DSCN3006.jpg

What I like about them is if you are hunting and get seperated from your pack and gear you have alot of rope for a shelter, knife, flash light, and a way to make a fire. I would like to add a small compass and maybe weave a couple extra loaded rounds into it.

Up close of the cobra stitch.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/DSCN2994.jpg

[ph4570]

Nice looking stuff guys. I really like the looks of that leather bag -- good job that.

[Von Dingo]

A Sharpie marker is very handy too.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Next week, tips on how to turn a spare ensilage silo into a bomb shelter.

You guys are starting to scare me just a little.

Rich
Sua Sponte

[CLAYPOOL]

Who's Kidding.......

[theinfamouselguapo]

......I just learned a couple months ago that cotton would burn. The fire steel lights the cotton balls right up. I also dabbed them in vaseline which increases burn time for tinder.

Looks real purty.

I like alcohol wipes and magnesium starters myself. The wipes are individually packed, don't take much space and can be used for more than one thing. You can sterilize and disinfect a puncture wound. Clean your bifocals (for us old folks) and they burn unbelieveably well in any climate I've ever tried them in.

Many years ago I actually had a class on fire starting. It's amazing how difficult it can be when it's 10 degrees out with snow and ice on the ground.

[richhodg66]

I like the idea of the alcohol wipes, I never would have thought of that. That also brings up that one should have some basic first aid provisions in a survival kit too.

Lint from the screen in your clothes dryer works well for fire starting too. Put a zip lock bag of that away in your kit and it will help you ignite tinder very easily. A few of the trioxane tablets like they used to put in C Rations would be good too.

[Longwood]

The flash from a fire starter is brighter than a flashlight. One can be seen flashing from a rescue plane or search party from a very long way off.
I know for sure cause I once saved a guy and his girlfriend from a 2 mile walk because while enjoying my campfire one dark night, I kept seeing the flash from the flint in his Bik lighter.

[Longwood]

A fire starter kit could include some dry charcoal cloth. It is very easy to light with a spark, simple to make and it makes the job much much simpler. Those little water tight aluminum screw together pill bottles that Walmart sells are very handy. I have also seen cigar tubes that are really handy for carrying different items.

[Longwood]

I just made an all leather case last week. If any **** HTF scenario breaks loose, I have a kit ready to pick up and get mobile.

My kit contains a G26 w/3 10 round mags, one 10 +1 Mag and 3 thirty- three rnd mags along with a fire steal, tinder , flashlight, cotton balls, 25 feet of paracord and two boxes of live rounds, a double mag holder, snap on holster, leatherman, knife, pencil and paper.

The fire starter kit is in a smaller latched pouch the incorporates a belt attachment spring if necessary.

I'm not paranoid, it was just a fun project which (doubtfully) possibly could pay off one day. It has no previsions for MRI's and the sort.

I just learned a couple months ago that cotton would burn. The fire steel lights the cotton balls right up. I also dabbed them in vaseline which increases burn time for tinder.

I probably need to make a shoulder strap for other clip-on kits.

Also learned to make some interesting knots.

That said, its all been lots of fun being a kid, in this 56 yr old tinkerers body. Its all been well worth the effort & time spent.

Next I think I will make up a small necessary kit for my Marlin 1894 (357 mag). That would be light in the weight department plus the ammo won't require a lot of space.

The 9mm kit kinda looks like this:

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh266/spilihp_2007/6e9d92bf.jpg
That looks very nice indeed! I was trying to think of a project for a big hunk of hide I have and you just made up my mind for me. Haven't used many of the tools for several years, should be a real pleasure to work with them again.

[wills]

What ever happened to Waksupi’s “99 ways to start a fire without matches”?

[waksupi]

What ever happened to Waksupi’s “99 ways to start a fire without matches”?

I look for that now and then. I'm not sure where the Gremlins stored it.

[hiram]

Don't forget a bic lighter

[Sprue]

FYI........ I didn't make the Bag shown. I made one similar to this one.

I wouldn't call this kit a survival kit, its just ready for fast deployment with no time to open the safe & pull out a accurrized (sp) cannon.

[theinfamouselguapo]

I like the idea of the alcohol wipes, I never would have thought of that. That also brings up that one should have some basic first aid provisions in a survival kit too.

Lint from the screen in your clothes dryer works well for fire starting too. Put a zip lock bag of that away in your kit and it will help you ignite tinder very easily. A few of the trioxane tablets like they used to put in C Rations would be good too.

I'll tell you the secret of making it through most survival situations you are ever likely to experience and it has nothing to do with what most people think it does.

Control your environment.

Seems simple, almost stupid, but that's it right there. I used to think that teaching somebody how to make fire, how to signal with a mirror, or maybe build a snow cave or trap game, that this would be the ticket. It ain't, it's not and it never will be. The trick is to overcome the psychological barrier of not being quite in full control. It absolutely cripples some folks ability to function.

[Sprue]

I'll tell you the secret of making it through most survival situations you are ever likely to experience and it has nothing to do with what most people think it does.

Control your environment.

Seems simple, almost stupid, but that's it right there. I used to think that teaching somebody how to make fire, how to signal with a mirror, or maybe build a snow cave or trap game, that this would be the ticket. It ain't, it's not and it never will be. The trick is to overcome the psychological barrier of not being quite in full control. It absolutely cripples some folks ability to function.

Good point !

[Dale53]

I used to do a lot of backpacking. Since I always had a job, it had to be built around available vacation days and week ends. However, every year, I would take a nine day trip by my self (generally in the Smoky Mountains). This was before hiking was "popular". Often I would not see another soul after the first day from the trail head until the last day from the trail head.

You learn pretty quickly how to "take care of yourself". Wildlife was never a problem - I just "paid attention". We did have some interesting bear encounters as well as feral hogs (descendants of genuine Russian wild boars).

I was always concerned that I would run up against a marijuana patch but never did in Tennessee. Ky was another story...

At any rate, besides recharging my batteries for another year in the rat race, I did learn some life lessons about what is REALLY important. When my children came along, they had the "opportunity" to learn to back pack and be self sufficient, also. It has stood them in good stead.

My oldest son, now a retired full bird Colonel (medical officer) of Delta Force used to look forward to Mash exercises in the field (he LOVED them) when his fellow officers hated them. He would just shake his head at the "wuss factor"...:veryconfu

Understand, that was before he got into Delta Force. There are NO wusses in Delta, Officer or enlisted, male or female, NONE! These are the "Best of the best"!

My daughter is a Dr. of Pharmacy and when she was engaged to a Naval Officer (Exec on a Destroyer) they took a week long hiking and camping trip. It rained the entire week. Mud up to the kazoo. Ray told me later, that my daughter didn't utter one bit of complaint in the entire week and laughed and joked the whole trip. He told me that was a new experience in women for him. They have been married about eleven years, now with two little campers (yeah they took them camping in the mountains of Utah when they were toddlers).

Back on topic. Having a good "kit" is a good idea in general. Whether it is to have at hand all of your hunting gear for a particular type of hunting, or what, it is a good idea.

We had specific shelves that organized our hiking and camping gear. Whether it was used for pure hiking or when hunting it was ready at hand. Good idea...

FWIW
Dale53

[onesonek]

Water or obtianing drinkable h2o is #1, packable food or ways to obtain food sources, snares fish/trotline, etc., & First Aid #2, heat source(ex. firesteel/waterproof tinder, etc.)#3, portable shelter #4,,,,, anything beyond simple survival, is convience or comfort. It all depends to distance, time expected to point B, and time of year and conditions. And then point B is already stocked. ( if I was alone without family member(s), i would switch priorities from above)
It's all sorted by season and need,,, ready, but not packed, (but then it has always been ready, not necessarily for a SHTF situation) ,,,,If I don't have 5 mins. to pack for time&conditions, I figure I'm in a position that's near ***** or worse , I'm better off where I'm at., and or assess at that time.
Pretty much go the minimalist route,,,1 to 3 weapons of course, but used only as last resort.
If it got to a SHTF situation, last thing I want is to be near people or attract attention!!!

[Artful]

Hand sanitizer has high alcohol content and burns pretty good as well. I always look for some high sugar quick energy food that stores well, came up with lifesavers or other hard candy in a film canister, Also threw in tea bag and something to boil yourself a caffine sweet tea drink to lift your spirits.

[Rio Grande]

Hand sanitizer has high alcohol content and burns pretty good as well. I always look for some high sugar quick energy food that stores well, came up with lifesavers or other hard candy in a film canister, Also threw in tea bag and something to boil yourself a caffine sweet tea drink to lift your spirits.

Lifesavers and candy are OK I guess, but I know from experience how much better a hot meal of real food like beef stew or chunky soup. Gives you some real energy and really is good for morale. That kind of food comes canned or freeze dried. MRE entrees work well too.
Camp fire will do, but seems like just when you need a fire the most it's wet and dark. I carry sometimes a Svea 123 stove.

[coopieclan]

This thread REALLY has me thinking.

Since I read it I have taken some steps.

I always keep my car gassed up.

I have put some things in my car.
Water, food and charcoal briquettes.
Tea and sugar (a good idea I got from this thread)
Tools rope and a tarp I had all ready.

I have put some things in back packs (one for each family member)
I am laying in some supplies in my storage locker. Camping gear, Rice & beans for 30 days and ammo.

If it ever hits the fan near me it will probably be a crisis caused by people (too many people) or terrorism.

My pack has some protection in it.

I am a little concerned that a bad thing might happen, I wish I had a cabin in the woods or some out of town place for us to go hide out.

[mroliver77]

Sterno is good stuff and takes very little room for it and a "stove". If I have to carry my kit on my back it is not really an option. If water needs to be packed there is precious little room for much else!

[Dale53]

I have done a LOT of back packing. Sterno is fine for heating a cup of tea, but it just doesn't cut it when it comes to preparing a meal.

On two week long back pack trips, I carried a back packing stove with fuel. It takes up little space nor does it weigh much. It will limit you to single burner meals, but you can do extremely well with it for extended times. They make gasoline or "all fuel" models. REI is a good place to examine the possibilities.

Rather than carry more than a couple of days supply of water, carry the means to filter it or purify it. It is MUCH more user friendly (until they develop powdered or freeze dried water:kidding:). Water weighs 8.0 lbs a gallon and you cannot carry enough for many days. On the other hand, there are filters that will make creek water safe.

I live in the Midwest and my experience is limited to this area (including wilderness mountains and woods).

A good book on back packing would not be remiss if you are serious about "emergency proofing"..

Just a thought or two...

Dale53

[x101airborne]

I give my dad a hard time about this. He wants an entire pickup loaded up and ready to go with all his stuff at a moments notice. GO WHERE????? If it is that bad here, is it really going to get better 100 miles down the road where I am the stranger? If I HAD to leave my house, for whatever reason, Im grabbing my best semi-auto 22lr RIFLE. I can defend anything with it out to about 100 yards, it is enough to kill frogs to two legged rats, its QUIET, and 550 rounds will fit in a nice small box. I am glad so many people think of things to pack with them. They move slow, make lots of noise, and are usually pretty inept when it comes to survival situations. I am not flaming anyone for being prepared. Quite the contrary. But come on folks, if it came down to this type of situation, there is nothing you can do and no where to go that eventually you will not wind up predating on someone else or falling victim. I mean getting all LORD OF THE FLIES and stuff. Come down to it, my house will have a sign in front saying W.A.C.O. We Ain't Coming Out!! or "If you can read this, I have fallen asleep and am ready to die" Then someone will have to shoot me through the towel on my head because I will throw everything at them including my underwear (not sure if that would be Nuclear, Biologic, or Chemical warfare)

[Longwood]

Sterno is good stuff and takes very little room for it and a "stove". If I have to carry my kit on my back it is not really an option. If water needs to be packed there is precious little room for much else!

I would rather have some tuna cans - with the tops cut off with a can opener that cuts the edge of the can lip - with a rolled piece of cardboard box with the tubes toward the top as a wick for the paraffin I filled the can with. I have also used about five pieces of small cotton cord for wicks so I can use for heat or light one or two wicks only, for light.
I also want a big can of flour and a sourdough starter because it has been proven that a person can not live very long without a source of carbs.. Mountain men knew that long ago.

[Von Gruff]

When a friend and I traveled round the east of Australia for a couple of years we lived out of my car and a staple for us were chapatis, a flour and water flat bread that we would use as a base to roll anything from vegetables to fruit in for a meal. Very easy to make and they taste good. Save the fat from the first kill, boil of and you have frying lard.
I take the view that laying in things for the home to keep viable if and when the usual sources of food are restricted through whatever reasonm is the optimum decission. Going somewhere else opens up more oportunities for failing than staying in familiar territory. Mind you I am in a small country town so have a lot of advantages over city folk.

Von Gruff.

[Longwood]

If I were going to stock up on stored food, dried corn, beans and rice would be the three at the top of my list.

[songdog53]

I just never have really planned on Bug out Bag. As i live way back in sticks and neighbors can be depended on I always figured would stay and do best i could where i am for roads and country side will be filled with people fleeing larger city's. Guess i will stay where i am but have stored enough food and have acess to water and plenty of game to hunt. I am looking into making snares and other things. In fact some of us have made snares that will catch and hold deer or wild hog. Just too many chances fleeing and to where would i flee. I know city folks will not have any choice but for me i will stay where i am cause plan on dieing here anyway.

[sundog]

Staying put because you have a good place is a plan. However, if it is good enough for staying, that means someone, or a bunch of someones, might also want it. That will be another plan - how to keep it and maintain it.

[andremajic]

While I hear a lot of people talking about food stored away, I never hear much about WATER storage/procurement. An average man can survive for 30 days without food but only 3 days without water. Priorities should be a way to purify water.
You can buy chlorine tabs or iodine tabs to purify muddy pond water and make it potable.

FWIW a teaspoon of powdered bleach can sanitize 400 gallons of water. You can purchase calcium hypochlorate at pool supply places in 50 lb bags. That's a LOT of drinkable water! Because it's an oxidizer, you don't want to store it around metal objects. We had a locker at work that is rusted that stored the powder, while the other ones in the surrounding area were normal. General rule of thumb is that if you can smell chorine, the gas is in the air and will rust the metal in the surrounding area.

Second, most people plan on carrying flint and steel and doing the old fashioned campfires. If you light a fire, the smoke will carry long distances, giving away your position to anyone in the local area. Bad idea if you're trying to stay low. Better idea is an alcohol stove built from 2 soda cans. They are super lightweight (about as thick as a hockey puck) burn without smoking, and one ounce of denatured alcohol will power your stove for about 15 minutes of cooking. You can build one with a razor and a thumb tack, and there are plenty of empty beer/coke cans laying around. Alcohol can be stored in plastic bottles without eating thru and if you use grain alcohol, it has multiple purposes. (medical, cooking, water purification, and recreation)
Here's an example of a soda pop can stove. Takes about 5 minutes to make. http://www.youtube.com/channel/HCfBZuTHrzrVU
You can fit a plastic squeeze bottle with about 6-8 oz of alcohol, a stove, a lighter, and have room to spare if stored in an ar-15 magazine pouch. You could carry a LOT more fuel in a larger buttpack or backpack with the rest of your gear. Try making one and testing it out. At my local hardware store, you can buy a pint of denatured alcohol for about 3.50

If you have already made a pop can stove and want to try something a little more challenging, you could do something like this Japanese guy did http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_705184&feature=iv&src_vid=vCZE8MQKgIk&v=OWaZ96zYVvQ
He's taken building stoves to a new level!

[380AUTO]

Doug are those slings for sale? I would like to purchase one for my camp 9.

[Artful]

If I were going to stock up on stored food, dried corn, beans and rice would be the three at the top of my list.

Actually Red/black Beans, Rice and dried split peas should be your list - the human body gets more out of split peas than corn nutritionally

[waksupi]

What ever happened to Waksupi’s “99 ways to start a fire without matches”?

I posted that a long time ago!

[alrighty]

I posted that a long time ago!
I wish it could be brought back , sounds like an interesting read.
I also agree that bugging in would be better than having to leave if at all possible.Water is one of the biggest hurdles for me to bug in.I did buy one of those 275 gallon plastic totes to store water in , you can find them reasonable in most places.Some were used to store fruit juices and the ones I picked up stored soy lecithin.They clean up pretty easily.Even for the town folks they sell a plastic bladder that fits in your bath tub in case of emergency.
At home you should already have enough of everything to get you through at least a couple of months.
If I must I can bug out at my small farm.It is only a little over 90 acres , 60 wooded but it does have a well already dug and I have a old cast iron hand pump stored there along with a PVC pipe made into a dipper with a rope attached for backup.The problem here is the lack of a shelter.It only has a couple of small sheds but one does have a root cellar hid underneath.I hope to build a small cabin in the next couple of years to also serve as a hunt camp.
Glad to see this thread come back to life.

[OuchHot!]

"Shelter in place" is obviously the way to go if you aren't flooded or burned out. Worrysome is what I have read on the Katrina aftermath. People who lived outside the affected areas and were prepared had various govt agencies invading and confiscating their stocks for "redistribution" (yeah, I trust Obammy with that one!). People who were prepared and inside the affected areas were, in many cases, forcibly evicted even though the best chance for them was staying put. They were stuck in completely over ustilised "shelters" and returned to gutted homes. "I'm from the government and I'm here to help".

[Artful]

Fire making series
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA4169B4yGs

[W.R.Buchanan]

Everytime something interesting like this comes up I always learn about something I didn't even ever consider existed. The Soda Pop stove was the big take away this time and the Beer Bottle version of it that comes up when you hit the link above is the Cadillac version of those.

The guy obviously has some Mfg experience, as his version has a rolled edge and works beautifully.

I have several bug out bags with a variety of things in them positioned in various places. Not so much gun related, although I would have a gun with me, or at the very least a slinghot (you may remember the slingshot thread I posted a few months ago.)

Some things to add that I haven't seen in any of the above posts are a Ziploc bag with about a dozen or so napkins from McDonald's, and 2-3 large plastic trash bags that can be used as ponchos or tarps.

The other thing I recommend is a list of all the stuff you have in your bag, so you know what you've got with you.

My Primary bag is MOAB 10 from LAPG.. My Wife's is a MOAB 6 (smaller version.) Neither of these are that big, and is about half the size of a regular 3 day pack, and mine weighs about 11lbs with a gun and enough stuff to stay active for several days. I can cover lots of eventualities with these two bags. Having fire, some simple kind of shelter, some tools like knives and a saw, rope, and some kind of simple food, and of course a way to clean water, are going to keep you going for a while. These BO Bags are mainly oriented to survival out of your car in case of an accident, or running out of gas etc. Not long term life off the grid.

I can also go that direction to some extent but that would require a remote location and preparations in place. My Jeep project is the transportation for a complete exodus and I have a trailer in mind (kind of a off-road Teardrop concept) that would be dragged along to live out of. The idea would be to bug out to the new location, and the trailer would integrate into the existing site which would have access to water, and stored provisions. My Jeep has nearly a 900 mile range with 36 gal of Diesel on board. Looking for a nice Diesel Genset like a MEP016B to add to the mix.

One thing I have thought about is leaving the house. The only way is if the house is no longer defensible. My immediate relatives would come to our house since theirs are in town and not defensible. with several gun people at my house we could last for along time.

If you are going to leave the house you need to have some place top go where you are known or have a place that is very defensible and pre-stocked. I have a way to get there, but no destination as of yet.

I will be making a few of those beer can stoves to include in the bug out packs just cuz they don't cost anything or weigh anything. Here's a pic of mine with my foot for a size reference.

Off to buy a Six Pack of Bud Light. I like the blue color.

Randy

Turns out those aluminum bottles only come in 15 packs, whoohoo!

[Love Life]

My bug out bag consists of a brown paper bag wrapped around a 5th of Jack Daniels and a harmonica in my pocket.

I have my bug out stuff listed in the Outdoorsman forum. It is a bag I have with me in my vehicle at all times. It is about 40 lbs of stuff I would use on a regular basis, and the water gets cycled out and replaced every month or so. I didn't make it for TSHTF. I live in the middle of nowhere and if I feel like doing an overnighter or two, that bag will keep me going for several days.

All I need to do no is build a nice and compact 308 thumper. 16.5 inch barrel and a folding stock perhaps?

[Artful]

All I need to do now is build a nice and compact 308 thumper. 16.5 inch barrel and a folding stock perhaps?

308 thumper - or 7.62x54R - cheaper gun and ammo - chinese version of M44 Mosin Nagant carbine at J&G Sales for $99.95
www.jgsales.com/-p-2341.html


Mosin Nagant Chinese Type 53 Rifle, 7.62x54R caliber, Good condition, C&R, Used.
These are Chinese surplus Type 53 Mosin Nagant style rifles in 7.62x54R caliber. They have a 20" barrel in the M44 pattern, with a folding bayonet. Overall good condition, with dark but shootable bores, a blue/patina finish, mismatched numbers, and stock that show wear and service and may have minor cracks. A very interesting part of history, with original Chinese markings on the rifle. Needs cleaning rod. C&R eligible.

Choose from menu above if you want Hand Select for a bit nicer rifle, or for a rifle with a shiny bore, or to add one 440rd tin of ammo to your order (only available with purchase of a gun.)

Picture is a representative of the stock we have, and may not be the exact item you will receive.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTX_-quVROA
more idea's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbP7q3jC30Y
Mine
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/Misc/th_0612112302.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/Misc/0612112302.jpg.html)
click to enlarge

[Love Life]

I already have everything I need to load 308 so a mosin is no where in my future. Well, if it's free...

Right now I am scouring the interweb (invented by Al Gore) and the local classifieds for a beater 308 that I can stuff into a cheapish folding stock. Probably a choate. I've looked at the high end folding aluminum chassis systems, but it gets really cold in the winter. I'd hate to have an idiot moment and grab an aluminum stock at -20 degrees with no gloves on. Pissing on my hand to remove it from a stock is no bueno.

[Lead Fred]

I'd ad a few green space blankets & a Mora 511 knife to your kit.

FYI, I went to goodwill and bought a 70s womans shoulder bag. Kinda a modern possibles bag.

[W.R.Buchanan]

LL: would like to invite into the world of the Ruger Gunsite Scout. Very versatile. I could probably cut the stock and put some kind of hinge in the middle but you really don't want that.

I have a Springfield Armory M6 Scout which is the Springfield Armory version of the Air Force Survival Rifle in .22 Hornet over .410 . Mine is .22LR over .410. I could load some 5 ball buckshot loads for it and make it pretty formidable.

I had an AR7 once. It was a pretty good little .22 that breaks down and fits in the buttstock. It got stolen. I never replaced it.

Or my newest folding gun which is a Kel-Tec Sub2000 in .40 S&W using Glock Mags. It actually folds into a 16" package and has enough firepower inside 100yds to cause some trouble. It can be brought into play simply by unfolding and releasing the bolt, in about 2 seconds total. It will fit into the pack shown above or my 3 day pack, along with my G35 and 8-10 magazines.Weighs 5lbs.

Hell a Paratrooper .30 M1 carbine would do an admirable job in this role.

I also have my Kel-Tec SU16CA which is a folding .223 that has 2 ten round mags in the buttstock. It weighs 6lbs.

Lots of guns will fill the bill. I think it's just a matter of finding something in the safe that you can have near you,,, often.

But really a gun will probably be the least needed item you could have. I want to be somewhat comfortable if I have to stay out for a night or so, so I'm concentrating on comfort, food, fire, and maybe a tarp to cover my **** so it doesn't get rained on.

Randy

[Love Life]

W.R. Buchanan- I've had my eye on those Ruger Gunsite rifles. I played with one in the loal sportsman's warehouse, and I wasn't impressed with the bolt. However; there is too much good press on the gun, and I'm sure it works in just fine.

My idea was a 308 rifle that could fold up and fit in a pack or a pouch attached to the pack. A 2-7 scope would be perfect for up close out to 600 yards on most targets.

Just a project I have been kicking around, and I hope to get to some day. That is really just a truck gun.

My BOB is already put together and gives me max comfort for a couple days! It even has 2 books in it.

[W.R.Buchanan]

LL: you could join us on the Gunsite Carbine Thread that has been going for several years now and has a zillion posts.

We have not had one person who has bought these guns who has anything but good things to say about them.

I had some minor problems with mine initially, but that was my nit pickiness in action. I fixed everything pretty easily, and mine was also #159 out of the very first production run. They are much better guns now. My son bought one last year around 35,xxx SN and it is better than mine as far as fit and finish goes, and this is to be expected.

However my gun still shoots inside 7/8" at 100yds with Factory Ammo or my simple handloads and that is pretty decent accuracy for a generic gun. In fact it is pretty decent accuracy period.

Like Mikey says,,, "try it you'll like it!"

Randy