7.62x54r and cast loading help

[new2cast]

First off, my name is Bill. New to using cast bullets. I am not making them, just consuming them.

I am looking into buying an M39. Before I do so I want to have a good load using a ready to shoot cast bullet.

Can you help me out? I have several questions:

1) if I buy a neck sizing die, does it punch the primers out as well? What do you recommend?

2) Do I need to crimp a load if I use the Lyman M die? If yes, does a .30-06 crimp die work?

3) who makes good .308-.312 diameter bullets heavier than 190 grains?

4) When do I use filler like dacron? What is it's purpose?

5) I have an rcbs pro trimmer, do I need a special plate/shell holder? If yes, what do you recommend?

6) do I need a shell holder for my press made for 7.62r? If yes, what do you recommend?

7) anyone ever try a load using Red Dot pistol powder?

Switch gears real quick for an M1 Garand:

8) how much of a crimp do I need for a 311299 load?

Thank you very much for all the help you can give!

Bill

[littlejack]

Bill:
Welcome to the CastBoolits.
Let me give you a couple of suggestions before you get to far into buying lead / cast bullets you don't / can't use. The chamber dimensions, as well as the bore dimensions on the Mosin/Nagants vary a lot. You should, if you want the best accuracy from your rifle, make a chamber cast, and slug the bore, and get boolits to best fit those dimensions, throat first.
I have a M44 carbine, that has a throat diameter of .317, and the bore groove diameter is .313
I have cast and shot the Lyman 314299 200 grain boolit, which does ok in some M/N's, but did not shoot to suit me in mine.
The boolit needs to fit the throat dimension to keep from tipping and getting started in the bore at an angle. It will do no good to get a boolit that fits the bore, if the throat is way oversize. I am on the list to get one of the NOE 316299 moulds to better fit the throat.
Other questions:
1. The neck sizing die "should" decap your cases. Mine do. I have only Redding, so that is all
I can recommend. I do not have one for my M44 7.62x54. I suggest you scan the major manufacturers to see what is available.
2. Generally, one does not crimp the cast rifle boolits. Just crimp enough to take the bell out in the end of the case. Do not crimp into the
boolit, unless it is for semi-auto or lever gun. I don't know if the 06 die will work or not, try it.
3. You will have to check around on these, I haven't looked. I don't use them.
4. Use dacron filler, if you are using light loads of the faster powders in cast boolits. The
dacron keeps the powder situated back against the primer for more consistant ignition.
5. You will need a plate for the 7.62x54 rim to fit.
6. I have a #16 shell holder that came with my Lee dies. Any will work, if you get the correct number.
7. Lot of folks here use Red Dot in cast rifle loads. You need a good cast reloading book to start with if you are going to load cast rounds.
8. Crimp just enough to take out the bell.
All good questions Bill. I hope I have been helpful.
Jack

[roots911]

Welcome Bill,
Good answers from littlejack. Iwould add that you should slug your bore to determine what diameter boolit you will need. My 1938 Tula 91/30 needs a .314 while my 1939 Izzy needs a .313. The boolit should be .001 to .002 over the bore size. Load a dummy round to make sure that it will chamber and is not too large for the throat. I use 13 gr of reddot with a 316299 boolit sized to need.(all disclaimers apply-work up loads slowly for your rifle) Do a search for "The Load" by C.E,Harris for more info on reddot loads. Frank

[new2cast]

any one else have some input?

[truckjohn]

1. Usually - almost always with standard neck dies. Buy the die set - not just the neck sizer die.

2a. Yes - you will bell the mouth with the M-die.. You need to roll it back down closed... It doesn't need much - just enough to close it down so it will chamber.

2b. No - a 30-06 die is the wrong shape and length... The case is narrower and longer. Usually your seater die will provide crimp capability if you need it.

3. Slug your bore to see what you actually need - likely something 0.314" diameter... The 314299 family is known as a good Mosin boolit.

4. I will defer to others here

5. I will defer to others here

6. Yes. RCBS and Lee make fine shell holders.

7. Lots of folks have - 13g Red Dot is Ed Harris's "Load"

8. Enough so it doesn't back out on recoil.

Thanks

[Rangefinder]

6: RCBS Shell Holder #13---if memory serves. It fits nothing BUT 7.62x54R

7: 10-13gr Red Dot make a great load with this----no filler.

Definitely slug your barrel. Fit is king. Unless you feed it the right fit of bullet, you're going to get a really bad experience---severe leading and squat accuracy.

[txpete]

bill the M39 finn's left the factory with a .310 dia. bore.the finn mosin nagants are alot different than their rooski cousins :smile:.these are high quality accurate rifles

in my finn M39's I size .311 and 13.0 grs of red dot with the lee 160 & 185 gr gc bullets.I use norma and laupa brass and a win lr primer.

20 rd group in my VKT M39 and I do not claim to be a marksman and the flyer was all me.:lol:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/mosin%20nagant/Scan10110.jpg

another good load in my rifles is 19.0 grs AA5744

[HARRYMPOPE]

"4) When do I use filler like dacron? What is it's purpose?"

Up to a week ago i argued it wasn't necessary with "magnum handgun" speed powders,Then with a load of 16.0 of 2400 and the 314299 i watched a Finn 91-30(not 39) come alive and shoot 3 consecutive 1.5"-1.7" 10 shot groups at a match.The amazing thing was the point of impact stayed exactly the same with no wandering as it had previously done.The same load bumped up to the same velocity with the same powder didn't shoot as well.Chronograph data was similar uniformity.Go figure.Without the small Dacron tuft it was shooting 2.5" groups at best.


i wouldn't use it with the 13 of Red Dot load though.

HMP




"

[hornetguy]

TXpete... PLEASE tell me that group was shot at 50 yds....

[txpete]

can't you see the powder burns on the target :wink: