Triple 7 - Warning!

[Dixie Slugs]

There is no doubt that Triple 7 is a powerful powder and is being pushing by many writers, etc today, especially in 209 primer guns.. However, some thought should apply when using it. You will find a sticky goo in the base of percussion guns and in the base of brass hulls. This sticky goo is hard to remove. This goo seems to be only where the powder was.
When I ran some 45 Colt fired cases in the vibrator, the media stuck to the goo in the bottom of the hulls......even after I flush them out with water.
Just some thoughts indeed!......James

[45-70 Ranger]

It is my understanding that the carbon portion in tripple 7 is sugar based. Perhaps this lends to the sticky deposit?
Thanks again for the tip!

Wade

[jhrosier]

I've shot Triple 7 in several different cartridge guns with no problem.
I soak the cases in hot water with a little white vinegar to get the gunk out, rinsing after with clear water.
I have seen the deposit build up a lot in the inline muzzle loaders though.
I think that I would stick to real BP if I had an inline.

Jack

[Dixie Slugs]

I think the comments about a sugar base is correct. Whatever it is...it can be a problem. As for gunpowder (black)...we have been testing Swiss and we are all impressed with it indeed. So far, I have not seen any of the makers of 209 guns talk much about using loose black powder. I plan to use Swiss in my 209 guns next season. They are simple to clean by pulling the breech plug. We are also using Swiis in the 45 Colt in our Kirst cylinders for the ROA. 38 grs under the Laser cast 200 gr bullet is excellent.....James

[BABore]

Try Blackhorn 209. Pricey, but accurate. No residue compared to the other substitutes and not hydroscopic. Cleans up with regular nitro powder solvents. In guns capable of using a 3-pellet load (150 grs) of a BP substitute, they recommend 120 grains of BH209 by volume. It works out to 84 grains by weight or 70%. Hodgdon ran accuracy tests in one grains increments from a reasonable starting point. Accuracy peaked at 84 grains.

I forgot to mention, either CCI or Federal 209 primers are recommended with BH209. I used Winchester 209's the first time out and had dissmal results. A quick call to the powder company revealed that they were not shocked by my results.

[Doc Highwall]

The black goo was why they came out with milder 209 primers for 777.

[10 ga]

DOC, I don't think hot or mild primers has anything to do with that goo. The "Mild" and ML primers are a marketing ploy according to my testing, just use those weak ass Remington STS primers if you're afraid of the power. CCI and Federal all the way! 10

[Doc Highwall]

I just saw the pictures that were shot with a bore scope showing the residue left behind with both primers. With my muzzle loaders I have used only real black powder or smokeless with my Savage so I cannot relate to actual field experience with 777 only what the primer manufacturers said and had pictures for.

[Dixie Slugs]

We tested both hot and cool primers with Triple 7 in our breakopen 209 guns. Same goo.
Now.....I have been speaking most about the use in percussion cylinders and in loaded handgun ammo. As I said some seem to have no problems where other do. I have pictures showing the media stuck in the bottom of the handgun hulls.
Since we began, we have tested many products for many outfits. If they work I might put a post here......if they do not work, we let the maker fix their mistakes. However, there are many syndicated writers that are clones to who ever does the most advertising on their rag.
We are not married to either the sub powders or gunpowder (black)...we test both. As I have posted, we found thar Swiss is heads above all others we tested. The hunters does not care if the powder he uses is slightly higher in price! He wants performance indeed!
I might add that only a small percent of hunters use the forums! At the very least, about 80% of our customers are meat hunters and do not hang on the forums....that is something all these forums should consider.
Regards, James

[cajun shooter]

That's a bit of a oxymoron isn't it? You come onto a forum to post what you consider a very valuable message then say that only about 20% of your customers go onto the forums. Perhaps it would behove you to use another venue.

[Dale53]

Dixie Slugs;
I hope you do NOT quit this forum because of negative comments. You have a lot of experience and regardless of what percentage read this, if just a few people are helped you have done a service.

Me? I have used black powder and Pyrodex extensively in everything from muzzle loaders to Black Powder Cartridge Rifles (fifteen years of silhouette competition) and lots of BP cartridges in revolvers. My personal preference is real black powder and Swiss is the favorite, hands down.

However, I have never quit learning and receptive from information from people, like yourself, with extensive experience.

Thank you!
Dale53

[August]

Substitute powders are a vexation to the spirit.

[Baja_Traveler]

There's a reason Swiss is the predominate powder used in all BPCR silhouette matches - it burns clean with very little fouling.

But, I do use 777 in my Old Army, and have never noticed any such goo in the cylinders.

I don't tumble brass anymore, instead using an ultrasonic cleaner - it would be the perfect solution for this type of residue. When I put the rack in I can watch the black billowing out of the case mouth and primer holes.

[Dixie Slugs]

Tumbler media stuck in the goo in the 45 Colt hull after Triple 7....James

[Lead pot]

All this bit---ng about this fake powder it just boggles my mind why you use this stuff.
Just because it smokes and is black in color it just ain't black powder!!!!!! and I don't know why it is even mentioned on a black powder cartridge forum. It is not black powder and these 209 things are not a blk powder cartridge rifle.

[RMulhern]

James

"I might add that only a small percent of hunters use the forums! At the very least, about 80% of our customers are meat hunters and do not hang on the forums....that is something all these forums should consider."

And maybe it would probably be best if you took post akin to this to possibly the SINGLE SHOT GUN FORUM....where 'break-over' rifles are most common along with the use of substitute powders or either a HUNTING FORUM where most don't shoot or use BP rifles!

[cajun shooter]

The Blackhorn 209 has been banned from many True Black Powder shoots as it is not a true sub of BP and uses the 209 primer. It's life started as a new improved powder for use in in-lines using the 209 primer for ignition. It is not allowed in any SASS matches. Dixie Slugs I haved read many of your postings about the develoment of different slug loads and have found them all to be very interesting. What you have done in that area is good as far as I'm concerend. I don't understand your love for posting about make believe powders that have no use in a black powder forum. If a person wants to shoot real Black Powder in this country then there are more than one way for these to be purchased. It matters not that your local stores don't carry it. I had a SXS 12 ga that I sent to a gunsmith by factory orders. It was brand new and had very rough chambers. I advised the smith that I fired nothing but BP 100% of the time and that I wanted the gun tested with such. He said that was not a problem. This is how a brand new gun was returned. Why not start a sub powder forum. This shotgun was loaded and fired with Pyrodex and on a UPS truck for 4 days before reaching me.

[Doc Highwall]

cajun shooter, that looks like somebody did not know what they were doing or did not care I would be mad as hell if that had been my new gun.