Strength of Uberti Sharps

[AKGrouch]

I just picked up a new Uberti long range rifle in 45-70, 34" bbl, pg stock, creedmore sight system, etc. I got a deal on it as it had been sitting in the store here in Anchorage since 2008!!! I will naturally be reloading for the gun and am debating over smokeless or slipping over to the dark side to play with it. What I'm wondering is, just how strong is the Uberti sharps copy action? What pressures can I work with above BP pressures, if at all. I imagine that the Ruger No.1 loads are out as the pressures are around 40K. One of the things I would like to do is play with it at about 600 yds or so. Will BP get it there accurately? I'm old to reloading but brand spanky and shiny penny new to sharps rifles and know that limited knowledge can be dangerous.

[wills]

I was going to tell you that thing is dangerously weak and you should send it to me immediately, but I had a conscience attack. I think you can probably get that thing to shoot to 600 yards with BP. http://home.earthlink.net/~sharpsshtr/CritterPhotos/SandyHook/SandyHook.html

http://www.longrangebpcr.com/TCTarget.htm

http://the_montanan.tripod.com/down_range_accuracy.html

http://loaddata.com/loads/45-70caliberloads.html

[AKGrouch]

Thanks Will. That Sandy Hook Beach article is something, especially when you see the name of the author. I think I'll pass on sending the Uberti to you....at least until I get a chance to play with it a bit...:)

[garry r]

ive got one simialr to yours . mines a bit plainer but the action is the same and the owners manual with it said for 45-70 not to exceed 29007 or with black 25000 . 200 yrs is about as far as i can shoot here in this brushy country but with 62 grains of ff goex and a 500 gr bullet its more accurate than i am . also same bullet with 42 grains of vargets good too. hope this helps

[Bullshop]

This is just one mans opinion and not a suggestion of what to do but just saying what I would do.
Actually the Ruger #1 is a 60,000 psi platform and the Marlin is closer to the 40,000 you mentioned.
If I had one I would consider the Marlin loads safe but stay away from the Ruger loads.
Most loading manuals list three load levels for the 45/70. The low end not over 20,000 psi is for the Trapdoor Springfield, The Marlins 1895 and Win 1886 will go to about 40,000 psi, and the Ruger #1 and #3 the modern Browning/Win 1885 and Siamese mauser conversions will go 60,000 psi
For your sharps replica I would feel safe up to the Marlin loads.

[doubs43]

I'm with Bullshop; stay with the Winchester 1886 & Marlin 1895 loads. They'll get you to 600 yards and then some... and do it safely.

The Uberti chart of twist rates shows that their 45-70 rifles have a 1:20 twist which MAY limit you to relatively light bullets. My Uberti Hi-Wall in 45-70 does OK with a 375 grain SAECO bullet out to 200 yards but stability seems to go bad after that and my groups open up. Using a 300 grain SAECO bullet, my groups stay good at 350 yards which is as far as I have to shoot.

You may find that your rifle shoots heavier bullets OK as each rifle is a law unto itself and the only way you'll know is by trying them. Your rifle should be a very nice one and I hope you'll share your results when you have a chance to fire it some.

[montana_charlie]

The Uberti chart of twist rates shows that their 45-70 rifles have a 1:20 twist which MAY limit you to relatively light bullets. My Uberti Hi-Wall in 45-70 does OK with a 375 grain SAECO bullet out to 200 yards but stability seems to go bad after that and my groups open up. Using a 300 grain SAECO bullet, my groups stay good at 350 yards which is as far as I have to shoot.
That information applies to Uberti-built rifles, but not to a Sharps rifle with the Uberti name on it. All of their Sharps guns are built by Pedersoli.

Pedersoli's twist is 1 in 18, bullets that drop out at .460" are a good choice, and the interior finish is something Uberti is not capable of reproducing.

CM

[doubs43]

That information applies to Uberti-built rifles, but not to a Sharps rifle with the Uberti name on it. All of their Sharps guns are built by Pedersoli.

Pedersoli's twist is 1 in 18, bullets that drop out at .460" are a good choice, and the interior finish is something Uberti is not capable of reproducing.

CM

My 1874 Pedersoli Sharps doesn't like the SAECO 375 grain boolit any better than the Uberti Hi-Wall. However, both shoot the 300 grain boolit quite accurately. I find that sizing them to .458" works well and neither rifle has a leading problem at that size. The Pedersoli chamber is tight. I doubt that a .460" boolit would chamber in it. The Uberti has a larger chamber and it would probably be OK with the larger boolit. I have tried .459" but saw no improvement in accuracy.

If you have a rifle with 1:18 twist, how have the 405 grain and heavier boolits shot in it?

[montana_charlie]

If you have a rifle with 1:18 twist, how have the 405 grain and heavier boolits shot in it?
I have never fired a bullet that light.
With three bullets of 500, 550, and 560 grains I can get 1.5" groups (sometimes smaller) at 100 yards. I never checked those three designs at longer ranges because I switched to paper patching for serious shooting.

But...
I have a bunch of loads with PJ Creedmoor bullets given me by another guy. Most of them have been fired at a 24-inch gong by myself and a number of neighbors. At 300 yards, those 540 grainers smack home with boring regularity...even when fired by guys who have never handled a BPCR firearm.

CM

[littlejack]

AKGrouch:
Welcome to the castBoolits.
As for the question of the strength of the action of your rifle, I will not get into that. There as many opinions as there are folks that offer them.
I will however say, that a person will never make a flat shooting cartridge out of the old reliable tried and true 45-70.
I will also say that there are a LOT of shooters on this forum that a person does not want shooting at them at 600 or further yards, and probably 99.9 percent of them shoot the black powder loads with one of those home cast boolits.
It would probably be difficult to get better accuracy form a smokeless powder load, as compared to the old bp load with the heavy cast boolits that the cartridge was originally designed for, and if that is not enough information, there is nothing to be gained in using smokeless.
I shoot 70 grains of Goex 2f, with the Lyman 457125 500 grain boolit. It will shoot through a broadside buffalo at 100 yards, it has been proven many times.
Jack

[Don McDowell]

A person doesn't need to use highpressure smokeless loads to make the 45-70 shoot accurately to 1000 yds. The trapdoor smokeless loads and of course the old standby blackpowder loads will shoot that far just fine,when shooting the 500+ gr bullets, and the 405s will shoot to 600 plus yds.

[NickSS]

I own a Uberti Sharps 1874 and it was proofed in Italy like all Italian made guns to the standard pressure loads for 45-70 which is around 28500 to 29000 PSI and that is all that they are warranted to stand. In other words factory or Trapdoor level loads. Their owners manual is careful to state that probably for liability reasons in case someone blows themselves up with it. Personally I never exceed those loads but believe that the current made Italian sharps rifles are at least as strong a the old original ones. A lot of them were converted years ago (when they were not collectors items but just Old junk) to modern cartridges of the day. I personally have seen a couple that were converted to rounds like 219 Zipper and 30-40 Krag. So I would say it is probably safe to load up to Marlin level loads in them. Personally I would not do so as the stock design of the Sharps is such that loads of those levels will quickly become less than fun to shoot even in a 12 pound rifle.

[doubs43]

The longest distance our range offers is 350 yards and my 300 grain SAECO boolit will take a full-size 40+ pound steel ram down reliably with a strike anywhere on it. My velocity is running a flat 1600 fps.

I use a 45-70 smokeless duplex load that gives low pressures and great consistency; a 300 grain boolit sized .458", 3.0 grains of WW-231 & 57.0 grains of WC-860. I use standard large rifle primers. The boolit compresses the powder slightly and I use a light crimp. In more than 20 years of using this load, I've fired thousands of rounds through several rifles without the first problem. Black powder would likely give me higher velocities but I can't say for certain.

[Freightman]

I have never fired a bullet that light.
With three bullets of 500, 550, and 560 grains I can get 1.5" groups (sometimes smaller) at 100 yards. I never checked those three designs at longer ranges because I switched to paper patching for serious shooting

CM
Charlie I agree the heaver boolits seem to shoot better in both of my 45/70's, in fact the lighter boolits just frustrate me as it takes a lot more work to get them accurate IMHO

[AKGrouch]

Thank you to all that responded. I think I'm gonna start with the black powder on the 405 and 500 boolits and see what happens and how it shoots. I was looking at it last night.......darn that thing's heavy!!!!! But that will help with the recoil:smile: Even so, the recoil can't be worse than my .375 H&H or my .458 Win Mag. They make my teeth hurt after a bit.

Again, thanks for the responses and advice. Glad I found this group......

[AKGrouch]

Well, now I've ordered Venturino's book and several others that are reprints of old data. Can't wait fro them to arrive to read. Geeez, this is starting to get to be habit forming. I haven't even loaded a round to shoot in it yet......

[littlejack]

AKG:
I shoot the 70 grain load topped with the Lyman 500 grain lead out of my Uberti 1885
Hiwall. To me, it is a sweetheart of a load to shoot. My rifle is some lighter than yours.
If you load somewhere around that powder charge weight, you will not come close to the 375 or 458 cartridges for recoil.
The bp has more of a push than the usual sharper kick of the smokeless cartridges. Enjoy.
Jack

[wills]

Well, now I've ordered Venturino's book and several others that are reprints of old data. Can't wait fro them to arrive to read. Geeez, this is starting to get to be habit forming. I haven't even loaded a round to shoot in it yet......

http://www.cisternpublishing.org/Books.html

[EDG]

The late model Ubertis are made by Pedersoli and there is an article about the proof level of these rifles on the interner by the late Dick Trenk