8x57 250gr

[jce]

Hello I,m going to ask another ? 8x57 250gr lee maximum powder is 35gr of H414 could anybody tell me what the velocity might be this is being shot out of a Turkish mauser 29.5 inch barrel or is there a download that I could use. THANKS craig

[wallenba]

Lee makes a 250 cast boolit in 8mm? Or did you mean the 215 Karabiner that Midsouth sells?

[JCherry]

I think jce is talking about the Lee maximum which is listed at 225 grains by Midsouth at;

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000068MMMAX

I have one and it produces bullets weighing 250 grains. I shoot mine out of a 29 inch Persian Mauser at 1850 fps and it has a pretty good punch on both ends.

As far as his original question I have not used H-414 so can't say what velocity he might be getting.

I would suggest jce find someone with a chronograph.

Have Fun,

JCherry

[wallenba]

I think jce is talking about the Lee maximum which is listed at 225 grains by Midsouth at;

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000068MMMAX

I have one and it produces bullets weighing 250 grains. I shoot mine out of a 29 inch Persian Mauser at 1850 fps and it has a pretty good punch on both ends.

As far as his original question I have not used H-414 so can't say what velocity he might be getting.

I would suggest jce find someone with a chronograph.

Have Fun,

JCherry

Oh, I thought he meant the maximum charge, not the Lee Max.

[jce]

Yes this mould is from midsouth I bought both the maximum and karibiner the maximum is 250gr the karibiner is 240gr these are wheel weight aloy and i want to get around 1800-2000 fps and would appreciate any help Thanks craig.

[sturf]

I use the 243 gr Lyman cast of linotype, sized .002 over, LBT Blue lube, Horn. gas check, 36 gr IMR 4064, just to touch, ( mould is beagled ). 20 inch barrel, vel. 1650 1 1/2 inch at 100 yds. Should take care of anything short of a tank.

[JCherry]

jce,

I checked my records and the powder I use in my 8mm is surplus WC-860. I use 56 grains with the 250 grain 8mm Max bullet for a velocity of 2000 fps and like I said in my earlier post it has a pretty good punch out the front of the barrel and definately puts a spin on the nut behind the butt plate.

Loading data for the 8mm Max is indeed difficult to come by. I checked a powder burn rate chart and it appears you H-414 is near Winchester 760 powder burn rate.

I believe you can get to where you want to be with the H-414 powder but finding data will be hard. Again let me say that you should find some one with a chronograph and work up to where you want to be. I'll keep checking and post again if I find something you can use.

Have Fun,

JCherry

[jce]

j cherry the data come from lee manual it is for 30-06 and 308 cast loads i just started low and worked up to the point that there is no blow back from the powder and no pressure sighns.craig

[JCherry]

jce,

I checked my Lee manual and I think I see what you are doing. Looks like you can follow the 308 loads for 250 grain J-bullets and not get into any trouble as far as pressure is concerned.

Have Fun,

JCherry

[Donor8x56r]

What's the size of boolit out of the mould with WW used?Anyone checked that by any chance?

[excess650]

What's the size of boolit out of the mould with WW used?Anyone checked that by any chance?

My 250gr Maximum runs right at .320"x.327". The spec for the Karabiner is a larger diameter nose.

[jce]

My maximum mould cast .325 and my karibiner cast .328 craig

[nanuk]

Loading data for the 8mm Max is indeed difficult to come by. I checked a powder burn rate chart and it appears you H-414 is near Winchester 760 powder burn rate.



if I'm not mistaken, H414 "IS" WW760... same powder rebranded....

[NHlever]

Quick Load doesn't have a boolit that heavy in it's database, but using 200 grain info, it looks like you will probably be getting 1600 - 1700 fps.

[357maximum]

if I'm not mistaken, H414 "IS" WW760... same powder rebranded....

You are not mistaken. Same = Same

[rststeve]

I have an old lyman mold that drops at 250 its a 323378 crons about 1600 range. I was shooting that in my turk with 38 gr 4198 it shot really well. I also have the 323481 that I shoot in my M63 Tanker, behind 31 gr 4198 to the tune of 1950 or so, not much to blow a whisle about for accuracy, but it does ok.

[jce]

THANKS for the help everyone now if it stops snowing i will go shoot and post a report i will try h4198, h414 ,imr4064 I am going to take this 8x57 load spring black bear hunting should be enough thump craig.

[Hamish]

jce, have just started on reduced loads of surplus powder 10b101 with the 250gr Lee Maximum boolit. How/what lube are you using? Are you looking for a reduced powder loading to practice shooting or do you want one load recipe to shoot and then hunt with?

Rich

[Andy_P]

Sounds like a script for Goldilocks and the Three Bears. For a 250gr cast:

- 35.0 grs H-414 is too little powder - inconsistent ignition, possible detonation

- 38.0 grs H4198 is too much - pressure! The gun should handle it, but not the boolit

- 36.0 grs IMR4064 is just about right

[jce]

Hamish I am looking for a accurate hunting load. Andy I have some 4064 and loaded a few at 35gr. The 35gr H414 load come from lee 2nd edition on lead boolits it is a 308-30-06 load that is used and there is nothing other than a caution on double charges why would this not be safe or detonate thanks craig,

[jce]

Well its still raining and I have not shot any targets for working up a load now I,m starting to worry about 35gr H414 detonating but according to lee you can go as low as 25gr with a 200gr cast boolit in a 30-06 this is a 250gr in a 8x57. thanks craig

[excess650]

In my shortened 1944 K Kale Turk I found the following loads to be what it liked:

250gr Lee Maximim sized .3265" w/LBT Blue

18-19gr AA5744
25-26gr AA2015
25-26gr Alliant Reloader 7
25-26gr H322

I TRIED 35-40gr AA4350 with magnum primers and 35gr grouped the best, but I'm still leery of SEE. Recoil is noticeably more stout with these loads.

I found that as velocity increased beyond these loads, groups would open considerably, and holes would print as oval instead of round.

I have another mold that is some 25gr lighter, and similar data works with that boolit as well.

Regardless, even the lowest velocity of these loads will drill a hole through whatever walking beast you may encounter. IIRC, one of the guys used the Karabiner with 16gr 2400 and shot lengthwise through a Percheron horse carcass.

[Andy_P]

Well its still raining and I have not shot any targets for working up a load now I,m starting to worry about 35gr H414 detonating but according to lee you can go as low as 25gr with a 200gr cast boolit in a 30-06 this is a 250gr in a 8x57. thanks craig

Good point - I looked and that's what they say. 35 grs in a smaller cartridge (offset by a larger bore) but with a heavier bullet, will provide considerably higher pressure than their lowest pressure load for H414. Yet, my instincts tell me that it's too little of too slow a powder, and that it will not burn reliably at that pressure. I'm open to being proven wrong.....

[jce]

Well I finaly got a chance to shoot some. 247gr. boolit 29 inch barrel turk mauser chrono. at 1900 fps with 36 gr. imr 4064 but groups were 3 inchs at 50 yards and leaded the bore this bollit is ww+2%tin air cooled gas checked lee alox lubed twice. any suggestions on what to do would be appreciated I got the velocity that i want but thats all thanks craig

[Moonie]

Couple of questions, what did you size them to and what does your barrel slug at?

[jce]

Moonie the barrel slug at .324 the bullet is as cast .325 thanks craig

[Moonie]

Ok, it just dawned on me, what are you sizing them to when you put on the GC's?

[jce]

Moonie I,m sizing them to .325 I open up a lee sizer that was .324 all it does is put a check on then I relube with lee alox but probably don,t need to.

[Moonie]

Ok, lets try a different tack, where in the barrel was the leading?

[jce]

The leading was in the first foot of the barrel or thats what it looked like i dont have a bore scope

[303Guy]

For alloy, I have tried adding copper as a grain refiner and it made for quite a tough but malleable alloy. The trick is to 'tin' the copper first with solder then let it dissolve in the tin rich melt and count on no more than 0.06% copper. The point being only that the alloy is a little tougher for the purpose.

Another point to make is that I have been using a powder which I feared could detonate at the levels I was using it at and solve that I filled the empty space with wheat bran because of its low density and compressibility. It worked. I'm talking 60% load density H4350/AR2209 in a 303 Brit under 206gr boolits. The wheat bran forms a wad under the boolit and might just prevent the leading. That information may not be helpful for a 8x57 but then again, it might.