B&M Powder Measure

[ColColt]

Anyone know about Belding and Mull powder measures? I ran across a mint one with micrometer charge tube and thought about getting it. It looks nearly pristine but not cheap. I was wondering about the accuracy and consistent throws more than anything else.

[Ickisrulz]

There is a thread on this...scroll down.

[Bret4207]

I think they are extremely accurate. Of course a lot of that depends on the operator. I find it's very useful for small batches of loads, for long grain powders, for working up loads. It's great for regular loading but is a bit slower and more involved than a regular Redding/Lyman.RCBS powder measure. The tube settings are very repeatable. In fact, using a B+M guide book from the 40's I found their measurements were spot on over 50 years later with the powders I had that they listed.

[Kevin Rohrer]

How much is the owner asking? They normally go for around $75 +-20.

It's a top-shelf measure that is very accurate. I will NEVER sell mine. Instructions for it's use are available thru a Google search.

[ColColt]

The owner claims it's mint and wants right at $200. It must be a honey to cost that much. It does look new from the pic and has the original box and instructions but, $200?

[PacMan]

I would like to own a mint condition B&M but 200.00 is pricey i would think.Just food for thought.If your charges are going to be 60gr or less and i wanted to spend 200 on a measure i would put 20.00 more with it and buy a Harrells from Buffalo Arms. Mater of fact i just did and received it yesterday.What a thing of beauty it is. You just want to sit in front of the tube and admire and work it. It is twice as accurate as my RCBS and Lyman.
Sorry to stray from your question but i could not resist.

[ColColt]

Which one did you get...the BR? The Schuetzen / Pistol Measure seems to fit the ticket for me weighing 2-25 gr loads which is primarily what I work with.

[PacMan]

I got the Schuetzen pistol.
It is small and compact and with the clamp on the back you can mount it just aboiut anywhere.I was a little leary about spending that much but after it arrived i am happy that i did. There is only one problem-now i have to come up with the money for the BR 6-60 grain model.

Dwight

[KCSO]

Last one I bought was in real nice shape and cost $75 and I sold it for $100 and thought I done good. Used with instructions they are going for $135 at Amazon.

[ColColt]

Up until recently, I had never heard of them...or the B&M for that matter. Take that back, I did hear of B&M back in the 70's but I always thought they were second to Lyman and RCBS. I have a 70's vintage Ohaus DU-O-Measure I've been well pleased with. I'd love to find another but you never know for sure what you're getting off ebay. You have to ask a lot of questions as they seller's aren't that descriptive in what they sell many times.

The Schuetzen pistol would be the one that would do me more good but it's hard to cough up that much for a powder measure. I'm sure they're worth it but...

[xbeeman412]

I have one for sale http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=109073 if interested holler

[Bret4207]

They aren't worth $200.00. I love mine, but not $200.00 worth. There isn't a powder measure made worth $200.00, I don't care what it is or who makes it.

[Kevin Rohrer]

In mint condition it's worth $100 +-25. He won't get more than that on Ebay or any other auction site unless the bidders are really stupid.

[PacMan]

What Bret4207 may be true for him and most others but not for all. I have been reloading for the better part of 40 years and using the same equipt for the most part of that time. Years only used a Rochchucker and then a combinationof that and then 2 550b's in my hay day of reloading.Sold one of the 550b's last summer and the other sits mostly unused.
About a year ago i bought a Foster Co-Ax and never looked back.Sold my 2- RCBS uniflo's,kept my two Lyman 55's and bought the Harrells.
Point is i came to a point in life that i decided that quality and pure joy of use out weighed quanity.Absoulty nothing wrong with the RBCS equipt. just wanted an upgrade. I have always been a person that liked things that have some amout of character and beauty(eyes of the beholder) and RCBS does not meet those needs.

Was the increase in cost worth it? To me yes.Others have to make that decision.I will say that the Harrells is the only measure that throughs charges of Unique plus or minus .1 of a grain without any voodo.
Dwight

[ColColt]

Old and no longer in production, I'd stack my Ohaus DU-O-Measure up against most. It's been consistently excellent but unfortunately, no longer around. I bought one online the other day but the chrome drum had strips of chrome flaked off and the metering rod was slightly bent. I ran across an excellent synopsis of Harrell's measure that show some goo d internal pics and one man's opinion that's worth reading. It's mostly how much are you willing to pay and is the extra $50+ worth it. It's all about accuracy and consistency but from experience and what I've read many places, none will through 28.3 gr each time, time after time for 100 rounds or more.

http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar63.htm

One thing I don't understand about Harrell's. Why such a long drop tube. Moreover, I don't see a cap for the powder hopper. How is the powder put in?

[PacMan]

Well i read the article.What year did he write it? Any way the part about sitting on the floor is beyond my understanding. First you do not need the drop tubes unless you are loading compressed charges and trying to get all you can in the case.
I sold my RCBS so i canot compare distance but mounted on a bench with the supplied mount i would say that it may be 1" higher at the mouth than the Harrells now when mounted side by side with my lyman the Lyman sticks down almost 3" lower,no ideal about the Hornady.Those comparisons were ridiculous.
Price diffrence between the RCBS with Micro adjustnment (midway 180.00) Harrells precision 6-60 grain( Buffalo arms 220.00 ) $40.00.
As far as filling the hopper that can be done 2 ways.On the top there is a plastic plug you can remove and fill hopper.The way i am doing it is hold the measure unside down and unscrew the hopper. Hopper also has a screw on cap,if you have two hoppers,they can be changed without dumping the powder.
As i said earlier the extra cost will not be worth it for most but for be it is.
As far as accuracy of each i never had any complaints about the accuracy of the 2 uniflos or my 2 Lymans using most powders. Do i expect any measure to throw 28.3 grains every time for 100 throws? No I am not stupid.
The only test that i have done with the Harrells is with Unique. 60 throws after setting for 5 grains.
Results- 4 charges that were .2 grains high.Did not count anything that was .1gr or less.I would say that 50% or more were 5gr's with the remaining being off .1. Intersting part was all but maybe 3 that was 5.1 the others were always low.4.9 grains. Go figure that one out.

I cant kelp but think the person doing the comparision was a little bias in his test. Maybe not.

We all walk to a different beat.
Dwight

[ColColt]

The only place I saw a date was at the very bottom where there was a copyright of 2011 so, had to be fairly recent. I don't know enough about B&M and Harrell's to form any sort of opinion but both look like great engineering to me. That said, I don't know if either would be any better than my Ohaus. I'll say this, the Harrell's looks like a Rolls Royce version of what I have whether it throws more consistent charges or not. It's a fine piece of work.

This is the B&M I was looking at for $200.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/My%20Stuff/ScreenHunter_01Mar181836.jpg

[Green Frog]

The B&M in the picture looks great, but as others have said seems to be overpriced by about $50 give or take. I will say that among the schuetzen crowd the B&M is highly regarded for the measure of stick powders such as 4759.

Dwight, I'd like to get a product report from you... how does that Harrell do with the sticks? I've heard good things so far, but I can't recall anyone talking about using with 4759 or similar stick powders.

Regards,
Froggie

[HARRYMPOPE]

i have used the B&M measures for quite a while and two are standards on my bench.For 4198 and stick stuff its hard to beat.I also find its the only measure to meter TrailBoss and the surplus VV stuff Bartlett was selling accurately.A buddy make fixed measures for his favorite loads an its really handy. MVA sells new "sort of" knock off ones for $189.I love mine,but not for $200.

HMP

[PacMan]

Green Frog
Just quickly i have some R-22 that i use in my 244 AI so i tried that. I have the small pistol measure so i opened it up all the way and then closed it back 4 clicks.
After throwing 5 charges it settled on 27grs.
Threw 30 charges
5 were 26.8
2 were 26.7
23 were +/- .1gr. with only 2 being 27.1

Not real sure how one of the larger measures would do with the stick powder.
Also intersting is once again there are way more lows than highs,same thing with the Unique.
Dwight

[Kevin Rohrer]

For those looking for a fast powder measure that accurately measures all powders including those of the long stick variety, the Quick-Measure is supposed to fill the bill. It operates similar to a B&M, but the interchangeable drop-tube is attached to the measure and spring-loaded. The load rate is something like 100-rounds in a little over 4-minutes.

Here is mine mounted on the bench. I haven't used it yet, but plan to load lods of 7.62mm and 30-06 shortly and will report on it speed and accuracy.

http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv29/KevinRohrer/Reloading/IMG_0407.jpg

[ColColt]

I can't figure what the brass tube is for in the photo (post #17) I posted. It looks like a powder measure I used when I use to shoot black powder a lot.

I just received a Sinclair International 2011 catalog today and they have the Harrell powder measures as well as the Culver on p. 78 for those that may have gotten the same catalog. There are five models shown from $200-350.

[PacMan]

I think that the brass tube is drop tube for black powder.May be wrong.

The Sinclair web site prices are about $25.00 higher than Buffalo Arms if memory serves me correctly.

[oldscool]

ColColt,
The price asked is what a new on with shipping would cost. It boils down to how bad you want one. I tried a B&M several years back and never warmed up to it. It was accurate, just did not like how it operated.

You are right about the Ohaus DU-O-Measure being consistently excellent. I have 2 of them and a schuetzen measure and there is not a nickle difference in consistency when using ball powders or small stick such as 4198 or 4895. I have an old Ideal No.5 that will give any of them a run for the money. It comes down to using a consistent motion and rhythm, especially when cutting stick powders.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/556/ohausidealharrell.jpg
I do best when sitting and resting my elbow on my knee or chair arm to get the best feel when throwing the handles. Since you got good results with your Ohaus, you will probably get pretty good results with any similar rotor cavity measure.

The Ideal is the biggest pain when changing loads to dial in the weight I want. The Ohaus measures are easier, but still take quite a few trial adjustments to zero in. It is hard to repeat a setting after changing due to the lack of good graduation markings. The Harrell is very repeatable when set to the same markings and number of clicks moved when switching from one load to another and back, and that is the biggest reason I purchased one. I think the schuetzen is the best of the harrell's for smaller capacity cases.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/556/schuetzentube.jpg
The drop tubes that come with the schuetzen are 4" long, and I have not had any problem with that. Since the thrower is so small, they do look long. Don't know about using it without a tube in place, as powder would probably hang up in the collet fingers or the housing threads if collet removed. You can not drop powder into a case with no tube unless you use a funnel at least.

Good luck on your decision. A lot of decent throwers out there to choose from.

[PacMan]

Oldschool my schuetzen came with two brass fittings one for the drop tube,which has the slits and one that is smooth that allows you to throw charges without the drop tube. No problem with powder hanging up.

[oldscool]

Dwight,
Is the other fitting usable for filling cases, or just for dropping powder to a pan or funnel?

[oldscool]

ColColt,
That brass tube in the box is the charge tube, what actually does the measure. You insert it in the measure, move the handle to fill it, then remove it and funnel the powder into your case.

[PacMan]

It works fine with 38 cases and up.
dwight

[ColColt]

One of the powder measure I've considered(Harrell's or B&M) and I can't recall which, seems to have a static problem from what I've read in several places. Nothing a dryer sheet couldn't handle I'm sure.

The Ohaus has been good. I loaded 4.5 gr of 231 today in some 38 cases with 158 gr LSWC's and decided for the heck of it to check each of the 25 I had loaded after I got it set for that weight. Everyone was either right on or .1 gr high. That's the best I've done with it and surely can't complain.

oldscool, that Ohaus on the right looks like the metering rod got bent somewhere along the line. That and the hopper is the two most fragile parts on it. I've had to get another one off ebay just for the hopper as mine wobbled side to side due to me over tightening the two screws that hold it to the body many years ago and the holes cracked. The lid was a little warped too. Can't figure how that happened but I fixed it good as new by taking a heat gun on low and lightly passing it over the lid while pressing down on the table...worked great. Over heat it and it's toast.


That brass tube in the box is the charge tube, what actually does the measure. You insert it in the measure, move the handle to fill it, then remove it and funnel the powder into your case.

You mean there's no provision for just putting a case under the drop tube, working the handle to charge the case and set it aside? That's a little odd having to remove the measure and in a separate operation, have to funnel the charge into the case. or did i miss something? that's sort of like taking a black powder flask and using a measure graduated up to 150 gr, set it on 75 and just pour the powder from flash to measure until it fills. You can tell I'm not familiar with B&M's..

[PacMan]

Oldschool if you do not have the other brass fitting and do not intend to drop compressed charges you could just cut off one of your drop tubes,shorten from the top, leaving it stick down maybe an inch or so.just a thought.

[oldscool]

ColColt,
That is pretty much the drill from what I remember. No provision to charge straight to the case. One of the current B&M owners can elaborate. I don't have an issue with static in my loading cave.

dwight,
Yes I know I could cut the tube, (you need to leave the top bevel to insure all powder funnels thru tube). and would also re add a concave bevel at bottom for the case mouth. I just see no reason to as it works fine for me as is.

[John 242]

Price diffrence between the RCBS with Micro adjustnment (midway 180.00) Harrells precision 6-60 grain( Buffalo arms 220.00 ) $40.00.

Dwight, the RCBS Competition Powder Measure with Pistol and Rifle Drums and Micro Adj Screw is $180.

A simple Uniflow with either standard or small cylinder is $85. Add the Micro Adj Screw for $40 for a total of $125

Not saying the Harrells isn't worth every penny, though.
I use a lot of Unique and always have problems with my Uniflow throwing a consistant charge.

-John

[AZ-Stew]

I saw one similar to the one pictured in post #17 at a garage sale on Saturday. It was a bit older, had a brass reservoir and the glass on the front was cracked (but didn't appear to affect operation). The guy wanted $35 for it. I didn't buy it because I didn't need it and didn't know if anyone here would be interested. The guy lives pretty close, so if you are set on this type of measure I can go ask if he sold it.

Regards,

Stew

[bbqncigars]

ColColt and oldscool:
Both of my Ohaus measures got the original hopper replaced with a MEC powder baffle (https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/3286) and powder bottle. Just carve off most of the male threads on the baffle until it's a snug fit in the measure. A little glue (don't get any on the rotor) and you have a sturdy fix that adds a powder baffle to your measure. You can do the same thing with just the bottle if you don't care about removing it or having a baffle.

[Wayne Smith]

You mean there's no provision for just putting a case under the drop tube, working the handle to charge the case and set it aside? That's a little odd having to remove the measure and in a separate operation, have to funnel the charge into the case. or did i miss something? that's sort of like taking a black powder flask and using a measure graduated up to 150 gr, set it on 75 and just pour the powder from flash to measure until it fills. You can tell I'm not familiar with B&M's..

That's exactly right. The "measure" is the brass tube, the rest is a powder container with a separate area with a window from which the measure is filled. You then need a funnel to fill the case. I do all this to relax, the slow process is relaxing for me. I don't want to hurry through the process, I want to craft ammunition.

[ColColt]

I saw one similar to the one pictured in post #17 at a garage sale on Saturday. It was a bit older, had a brass reservoir and the glass on the front was cracked (but didn't appear to affect operation). The guy wanted $35 for it. I didn't buy it because I didn't need it and didn't know if anyone here would be interested. The guy lives pretty close, so if you are set on this type of measure I can go ask if he sold it.

Regards,

Stew

Thanks but I don't' have any use for that one since it's a B&M style. I don't have one of those. I cracked the hopper on my DU-O-measure years ago but managed to find another to fit it, although it required buying an entire unit off ebay. I sort of like the looks and function of Harrell's Schuetzen and may pick up one of those. what the heck, you only live once and I've no wife to spend money on so...I've saved quite a bit on that alone.