Sharps rifle questions

[hotwheelz]

Hi guys, I have been wanting to get a sharps rifle for some time now and think i have finally saved up enough to get going... But im not sure if i should go 45-70,90-or 120 other then case availablity is there any major advantage to one or the other? Is here any known issues with diff. makes I see Pedersoli, TAYLORS, US Sharps Rifle Company , CIMARRON, Uberti and prob a few more that i have seen and dont recal the name..

Thanks for your input ahead of time..:drinks:

[lbaize3]

I suggest you look up the loading data on each. I have always used the 45-70 for the following reasons:

1. The brass is cheaper
2. You can load it fairly hot in guns stronger than the sharps (some loads approach 458 mag energy levels)
3. The 45-90 and 45-120 are primarily for black powder (lots of wasted space with smokless) And I don't load my cartridges with black powder
4. I have a Rolling Block, an Enfield bolt action, a Contender, a Marlin 1895, a Ruger No. 1, and a trapdoor reproduction, all in 45-70. I load for the weakest and can use the ammo in all of my guns
5. I have owned several sharps in the past, each in 45-70. I enjoyed each gun and found them to be very accurate (and heavy).
6. Shooting the 45-70 in the 45-120 leaves the bullet with a fair jump to the rifling which does not aid accuracy
7 The few 45-120 rifles I have shot give significant recoil compared to 45-70. The do not make for a fun day of shooting

As a last suggestion, I think you might like to look up the Black Powder Cartridge data for long range competition and see what has been winning. That can be eye opening....

What ever you choose will provided a lot of fun and satisfaction. Enjoy.....

[montana_charlie]

Is here any known issues with diff. makes I see Pedersoli, TAYLORS, US Sharps Rifle Company , CIMARRON, Uberti and prob a few more that i have seen and dont recal the name..
Yes, there are issues with some makes. When looking at the Italian imports, stick with Pedersoli if you intend to be a serious shooter.
Uberti is okay because their Sharps rifles are actually made by Pedersoli. Importers (who are not manufacturers) like EMF and Cimmaron may handle two or more brands. Again, stick with the Pedersoli and Uberti brands from those importers.

If you expect to be a more casual Sharps shooter, the Armi Sport rifles may suit you. They are a little less in price, but they lack some dependability when it comes to competitively tight groups. Some can do it...some can't.

There are also two American companies building Sharps rifles. Expensive, but very high quality.

As a newcomer to loading and shooting black powder cartridge rifles, 45/70 is your best caliber choice. It is the easiest cartridge to master. If you consider yourself pretty competent at learning new skills, you might consider the 45/90 just for a little more powder capacity. But, the longer cases should be saved for your next rifle...probably.

If you are interested, there is a very nice 45/70 Pedersoli being auctioned here http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=10233607
It has exceptionally nice wood for an off-the-rack rifle.

The seller is a well-known gunsmith who used to do the warranty work for Pedersoli.

CM

[BruceB]

[

Baize has given you an excellent summary about the .45-70 and the Sharps' rifle. The one thing I want to add concerns the following:

" 2. You can load it fairly hot in guns stronger than the sharps (some loads approach 458 mag energy levels)"

Kirk Bryan, who owns and operates the Shiloh Rifle Company, has stated that HIS Sharps' rifles will withstand any load that is safe in a Ruger #1....and that is DEFINITELY in .458 territory. Of course. this doesn't mean that such loads are necessarily 'wise', but his rifles will take it. My own Shiloh is now a .45-70, and I have no intention at all of " pushing the envelope".

For one thing, the recoil will be brutal with the old-style stock dimensions, and for another, I have enough heavy-caliber rifles around that I don't need to make my Shiloh into something it's not intended to be.

The .45-70 is a wonderful round, and for one's FIRST Sharps'. it's about ideal.

[Don McDowell]

45-70, because of the reasons already stated, and from personal experience with the cartridge can say it really doesn't give up much of anything to the longer cartridges at extreme distances.
Also be very careful with the shopping, with the devalued dollar and all the other world monetary woes, there are actually a number of the Italian import rifles that are the same price or higher than a standard C Sharps or Shiloh rifle. The C Sharps and Shiloh's will hold their resale value for generations to come, the Italians are sort of like a new car, you'll loose 25 % of the value between the time you finish the paper work in your dealers store and the time you get the thing home.

[Mitch1352]

I have a Shiloh Number 1 Sporter in .45-70 that I shoot cast through. The quality is top shelf, as are the people who built it. I ordered my son a Military Carbine in .45-70 for his Eagle Scout award and the Shiloh folks included a shirt with everyone's signatures on it for him. I will order another one from them because of the quality. I know guys who shoot the snot out of them for hunting and BPCS and they hold up wonderfully.

[BSkerj]

After alot of research, reading and absorbing as much as possible about the above calibers I finally decided on the 45/70. I finally decided also on a Sporter #1 from Shiloh last November. I liked the way I was able to customize it according to my budget, and after reading the many posts on different forums about the 45/70 in the Shiloh I am confident I will not look back. A little pain as far as price goes but I know that in 2 or 3 years I won't be kicking myself for not getting a Shiloh.

[NickSS]

Buying the best is never an error. I have a Shiloh in 45-70 for the past 16 years and it has never let me down. I also have another shiloh and several C Sharps rifles in both 45-70 and other calibers. I have shot my Shiloh long range express at 1200 yards with straight black powder and except for my neck not being long enough to see the sights with the rifle on my shoulder I had not problems shooting a really competitive score with it at that range.

[161]

I'm new to this board and others have a much greater sense of what to do and what not to. I bought a Pedersoli Billy Dixon model last fall. Had very little time to shoot it before the weather moved in. It's in 45-70. I don't have anything to cast for it yet. I slugged the barrel it's .458. The wood t metal fit is good. I shot some, ( not all) 1.5 inch groups @ 100 yrds. with it from a bench. I thought we got along pretty good for the first and second time out. I'm sure the Shiloh is a better gun but the Pedersoli is a very nice rifle it's self. Mine has the rear tang Pedersoli sight that forces my to clean from the muzzle and I don't like that but it's a good gun. Hope this helps. Buy what you can afford that's what I did. Like I said I'm new so don't go off just what I have to say. I do not and will not shoot Black Powder.
Warren

[Don McDowell]

You should be able to fold that tang sight down so it's out of the way of the cleaning rod to clean from the breech end. You can also get a delrin cleaning rod , that will bend around the sight.
Just curios as to why you don't and won't shoot black powder?

[doubs43]

161, while the Shiloh rifles are top drawer, your Pedersoli should also be a fine rifle that will shoot with great accuracy. I have the plain-Jane 1874 Sharps Pedersoli in 45-70 and it shoots quite well. With respect to your rear sight, sometimes removing the eye cup will allow the sight to lay flat enough to allow cleaning from the rear. I have the Pedersoli Soule rear sight on an 1885 Hi-Wall and can clean from the rear by removing the eye cup. On the 1874 I use the Dr. Goodwin sight and cleaning from the rear is easy.

[hotwheelz]

Wow Thank you all for advise right now Im leaning toward the "Pedersoli Buffalo" I see one on gunbroker for 1000 IM gonna try for it , hoping to use it for elk this year [smilie=w: Now i just have to wait 4days to see if i can win it...

[MGySgt]

Sharps and Elk?????

Took 2 with a 45/90 - it is a real hoot to hunt with!

[BruceB]

Just one more comment.

I didn't mean to imply that the Shiloh is "the only game in town." I do believe they are the best 1874-type Sharps' rifles available, but...

At a fairly-recent gunshow, there was a gorgeous Pedersoli that gave me SEVERE anguish. It had a lovely piece of low-gloss oil-finished walnut, and WITH the tang sight and fine bluing it was priced at a measly $1000, in as-new condition. I went back to it repeatedly, and finally tore myself away, thinking it was just too similar to my Shiloh. Caliber was .45-90 and my Shiloh is .45-70, as mentioned above. Still, I was THIS CLOSE to buying the Italiano rifle....I guess I'm not "too prejudiced" after all....

Enjoy your new rifle. There's really nothing else quite like a Sharps'.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have a Winchester Model 1885 BPCR in 50-90 Sharps. It was made in Japan by Mirakou and imported by BACO into Salt Lake City UT. I stole it for a new in box price of $1300 and then spent another $700 on an excellent set of sights. So between the sights, dies, powder, molds and other accessories I have about $3,000 invested in this mother of a gun that turns my shoulder bruised and beats the snot out of me.

The good part is that it shoots like a dream and will consistently hit the ram at 500 meters and deliver that soul rendering CLANG well after the sound of the report and the big cloud of white smoke.

I now have a very good recoil pad strapped onto my shoulder and I also made up a shooting bench that allows me to stand up and take me medicine rather than sitting down. These two items allow me to shoot pretty much pain free if I wear a pair of Motorcycle Riding gloves that prevent the sharp and nasty parts of the rifle from digging into me. Prior to the gloves I had to bring a box of band aids to prevent me spilling blood all over the rifle and stand.

Did I tell you that this rifle kicks like a water buffalo?

My smarter friend bought the same rifle in 45-90 and has been shooting it for about two years longer than me. He has over 1000 rounds through it and he knows his stuff very well. He is a better shot as he has more experience than I do in this BCPR stuff. I have fired his rifle many times and without the recoil pad and gloves and such it also kicks like a smaller water buffalo. It is not any fun to shoot unless you like pain.

Recently he bought a C. Sharps Rifle in 38-55 Calibre. It is a beautiful looking rifle and is accurate as the bigger calibres at least up to 300 yds. The recoil is a joke compared to the bigger ones and it is lighter and uses less powder and less lead to make the boolits. This is the prececessor of the 30-30 in .38 calibre and although a mite lite for hunting it is a fine BPCR target rifle that is easy on the pocketbook and the shoulder.

If you are not going to hunt with this rifle then think about the 38-55 as it will save you a lot of money and pain.

I have too much invested in this Buffalo Rifle to go into a smaller calibre as I will lose my shirt on what I already paid out. However if I had it to do over again I would have gone with the 38-55 from the get go as I have no plans to use it for hunting and I only target shoot it. If however you are really stuck on 1000 yd shooting then you will need at least the 45-70 if not the 45-90 calibre to get out there and buck the wind and such.

In either case I would stick with an American rifle such as a Sharps or whatever and stay away from those other foreign models other than a Pediosoli which I understand is a pretty good brand.

[montana_charlie]

Now i just have to wait 4days to see if i can win it...
If you don't win that auction, here is the same rifle, brand new, for an extra $150.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=2574&osCsid=bd229c51b3a345d48331c99b39b16fa4
It doesn't have the tang sight of the Gunbroker gun, but the sight in the auction is nothing special, anyway.

CM

[161]

You should be able to fold that tang sight down so it's out of the way of the cleaning rod to clean from the breech end. You can also get a delrin cleaning rod , that will bend around the sight.
Just curios as to why you don't and won't shoot black powder?

When I first saw the rifle I told the dealer the rear sight was on backwards. It folds forward. He told me he said the same thing when the guy brought it in. I bought it and took it home and tried to turn it around so it folded to the rear. And I couldn't get it to work. Then I got the instructions, it's a Pedersoli sight and it looks like thats how it goes. Doesn't look right to me but thats what I get for reading instructions. As far as me shooting black powder, I know a lot of people enjoy it. I had a muzzle loader years ago and hated cleaning it. I'm half mentally unstable when it comes to caring for a firearm. I take care of my guns and don't like rust. I won't even put a gun that has fired black powder in my gun safe around my other guns. I don't mine shooting somebody else's gun with black powder so long as they clean them and don't bring them in my house. I know, but everybody has a quirk of some kind.
Warren

[161]

161, while the Shiloh rifles are top drawer, your Pedersoli should also be a fine rifle that will shoot with great accuracy.

Thanks
I'm looking forward to shooting at longer distances, it's a nice gun.

[Don McDowell]

There's no reason for a firearm that has been fired with blackpowder to be the victim of rust.
Blackpowder clean up of a cartridge arm is much simpler than a muzzleloader.
But to each his own I suppose.

[161]

And I should say mine didn't rust. What happened was I sold the BP then when I moved I took my guns to my Dad's. I have a model 63 Winchester that was my Grandpa's that was in very good shape. I had forgotten about the old muzzle loader and put the 63 in the case I used for the ML. Tiny spot of rust on the receiver. Nobodies fault but my own.
Warren

[Gunlaker]

Warren, I had an older Pedersoli and the sight acted as you mentioned, i.e. It would not fold back, only forward. The Pedersoli sight was designed to be mounted in two ways, depending on what kind of rifle it was mounted on. I found that in order to get mine to work correctly (with the long leg of the base on top) I had to carefully modify the detent for the spring in the sight base. I took just a bit of material out nd the sight then operated correctly.

Actually I still have that sight, but not the rifle. It works well, especially with the Hadley I added to it. It is bulky as heck though.

Edit: i should add that there is some adjustment in the spring, but it was insufficient on my rifle. I imagine that you've fiddled with that already?

Chris.

[161]

Edit: i should add that there is some adjustment in the spring, but it was insufficient on my rifle. I imagine that you've fiddled with that already?

Just enough to be dangerous.
Warren

[bbqncigars]

I put that sight on my Cimarron 1874 Creedmoor. It took quite a bit of fiddling around to have the sight perpendicular to the bore in the 'up' position. There's just enough clearance when folded back to clean from the breach. I love the Hadley on it, but wish Merit made one that would fit.

[AKGrouch]

Recently he bought a C. Sharps Rifle in 38-55 Calibre. It is a beautiful looking rifle and is accurate as the bigger calibres at least up to 300 yds. The recoil is a joke compared to the bigger ones and it is lighter and uses less powder and less lead to make the boolits. This is the prececessor of the 30-30 in .38 calibre and although a mite lite for hunting it is a fine BPCR target rifle that is easy on the pocketbook and the shoulder.

If you are not going to hunt with this rifle then think about the 38-55 as it will save you a lot of money and pain.


With all due respect, I would submit that that piddly 38-55 (which was the larger father of the .30-30) and its 30-30 offspring have killed more deer than you can shake a stick at. I have a 1894 in 38-55 made in 1900. It is tight as a tick, a pleasure to shoot, and deadly accurate with a 265 gr lead boolit. I would not hesitate in taking it deer hunting or hunting for any other game of the same size with one exception.....antelope (and only because of how hard it is to sneak up within a county or two of the pronghorn without being seen.) I also wouldn't turn it down on a black bear hunt as it is certainly capable of doing the job. Just my humble opinion. I would pass on using it on elk or moose here in Alaska though.

[doubs43]

I have to second what AKGrouch has said. Reports on the new Pedersoli Hi-Wall in 38-55 indicate that with a 360 grain boolit, it will easily take a steel ram down at 500 yards. Even using the 250 ~ 265 grain boolits, it's more than enough for a deer at 200 yards. With an RCBS 312 BPS boolit weighing 318 grains and leaving my rifle at 1319 fps, it takes a steel ram down at 225 yards reliably. There's nothing "lite" about it's performance.

[161]

Has anyone used either of the RD 45 boolits in a Sharps? Looking at Trapdoor fps with smokeless. If so would a guy need a gas check?
Thanks

[hotwheelz]

Well I didnt get the rifle from gun broker b/c I found 1 from a friends friend its an 1874 Sharps shiloh in new condition hes only fired 50rnds threw it hes gonna let me make a few payment on it so ill have it in a couple months thanks for all the reply's cant wait to get it...

[161]

Good for you let us know how it shoots.
Warren

[161]

I tried to soot the above mentioned Pedersoli sharps today. I'm only 46 but I have to admit the eyes aren't what they use to be. The rear aperture is so small I can't see through it. It's to dark, is there any place I can get one with a larger hole in it?
Thanks
Warren

[Longwood]

I had the same problem with my Uberti tang sight so I simply drilled it larger a little at a time with number drills until it worked for me.

[Gunlaker]

I tried to soot the above mentioned Pedersoli sharps today. I'm only 46 but I have to admit the eyes aren't what they use to be. The rear aperture is so small I can't see through it. It's to dark, is there any place I can get one with a larger hole in it?
Thanks
Warren

Pedersoli makes a Hadley disc for your sight. It has a number of different sized appertures. The apperture size is selectable with a tumb wheel. I added one of those to mine.

One other thing that helps if it's too dark is to use a slightly larger insert in the front sight.

Chris.

[wills]

I tried to soot the above mentioned Pedersoli sharps today. I'm only 46 but I have to admit the eyes aren't what they use to be. The rear aperture is so small I can't see through it. It's to dark, is there any place I can get one with a larger hole in it?
Thanks
Warren

Too small? Are you sure you aren’t shooting a Hadley turned down to the smallest aperture?
http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/hstrial-LeeShaverGuns/-strse-41/soule-tang-sight-pedersoli/Detail.bok

[161]

Gunlaker
I tried to work the rear sight like you said you did. I took the spring out before I removed any metal and swung the sight rearward, it will hit the stock before the spring would catch the next notch in the sight. You did say the long side of the base goes forward didn't you?

Longwood
I thought I might just drill the rear aperture out what size drill did you settle on?

wills
No it's just a single aperture wish I had one like you pointed out.
Thanks
Warren

[Longwood]

Can't remember, I sold it and installed a Wm. Malcolm style scope.
I used a set of number drills but I could have gotten by with a fraction drill since the size of the hole is not all that important. Try a piece of metal held in place with tape in place of the eyepiece and checking to see if you can see through it OK. Keep removing and drilling bigger holes in it till it works for you then drill out the sight with that drill.

On checking my other tang site, I retract the part about using fraction drills. Enlarging by 1/64th may not work for your much younger eyes. I just called the guy I sold the sight to and he says it is now a number 56 hole and a smaller one may work better for you.

More editing.

He just called me back and said the tang sight on his Rossi has a 3/64 hole and looking through both of them, he can't see much difference.

[montana_charlie]

It's not uncommon for a tang sight eyepiece to have a tiny hole in it. It is expected the owner will enlarge it to the size that suits him best.
Much easier to drill one out, than to complain to the maker about it being too big, already.

I have the Pedersoli Hadley and most often use the fourth from the smallest aperture. The diameter of that 'hole' is .039".
When I need 'more light', the next bigger size is .050". A 1/16" drill bit is .062"

CM

[Gunlaker]

Gunlaker
I tried to work the rear sight like you said you did. I took the spring out before I removed any metal and swung the sight rearward, it will hit the stock before the spring would catch the next notch in the sight. You did say the long side of the base goes forward didn't you?

Longwood
I thought I might just drill the rear aperture out what size drill did you settle on?

wills
No it's just a single aperture wish I had one like you pointed out.
Thanks
Warren

Hi Warren,

Mine is mounted long side forward, and the eye cup will hit the stock on my rifle if the eye cup is set for 200yds or more. It's a pretty bulky sight.

Chris.

[MGySgt]

Are you sure your staff is in the right position for you to see through it? It only takes a few degrees out of plumb with the front site to not be able to see.

FWIW

[doubs43]

Are you sure your staff is in the right position for you to see through it? It only takes a few degrees out of plumb with the front site to not be able to see. FWIW

Very true. The spring on the Pedersoli Creedmore sights allows some adjustment to place the staff in a perfectly perpendicular position to the bore line. It's important to get it right.

[161]

Shot the Pedersoli last Sunday about 50 rnds. 405 Suter's Choice on top of 5744 and 4759. Both at the bottom of the trapdoor data from Lyman's # 49. They chronograph about 1300 fps. It's a good thing the rear sight folds forward because it kept hitting my glasses. Found a place I could shoot at 500 yards safely into a open field side hill. This time of year before the crops go in is the only time I can shoot that far. I like 12 gr. of Unique as far as recoil goes. Need to get some steal to set up for it.

[wonderwolf]

I'll agree with the folks that say its hard to clean from the breech with the tang sight in place, but that is the only detractor I've ever found with my Pedersoli long range! I visited the Shiloh factory last summer on a road trip out west all I can say is they had more money hanging on one wall than I think I had made last year. Good folks and even though I don't own a shiloh I still frequent the Shiloh shooter forum to get good info and ask questions!

[MT Chambers]

Even though I am Kanadian, I would buy US made rifles whenever possible and the 2 manufacturers out of Montana make the best Sharps, I'd skip the Italian copies if it were me.