Accurate Molds: Bullet design #45-360V detail

[Southern Shooter]

What do ya'll think of this bullet design from Accurate Molds, LLC? This is what I believe will be my purchase for my Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan .454 Casull with the 2 1/2" barrel. 360 grain bullet on top of 22 to 24 grains of H-110. Several sites show that 1,000+fps is possible with this weight bullet and H-110.

Is there anything ya'll would change on it? Is the meplat design ok with ya'll?, etc.

Thanks

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-360V-D.png

30436

[geargnasher]

I'd put a hint of draft in the meplat like I did in the 45-260G, it drops from the mould really nice and doesn't affect the "hammer" effect in a bad way.

Gear

[NHlever]

I am afraid that the meplat is a bit large to stabilize well with the velocities you can get from an Alaskan. I had some trouble with the 300 grain Lee boolit of that shape unless I drove it as hard as I could in a 5 1/2" 45 Colt. I might give up a few grains to assure that the boolit would fly, and penetrate straight.

[RobS]

The Alaskan is not intended to be an accurate "longer range" revolver, doesn't mean it can't, but rather it's creation was intended for up close and personal protection. 360 grains of bullet with a large meplat out of a 2 1/2" barrel at 15 to 20 yards will be accurate enough for self defense. I don't know what the OP's intent is entirely but I doubt it is 50 yard accuracy shooting so the design will likely suit his needs.

[RobS]

.454 Casull with the 2 1/2" barrel. 360 grain bullet on top of 22 to 24 grains of H-110. Several sites show that 1,000+fps is possible with this weight bullet and H-110.
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-360V-D.png

30436

Careful here as the load data you are looking at is probably of a 360 grain gas check design, most is when it comes to 360 grain bullets in the 454 Casull. A GC design will yield more pressures vs a plain base of similar weight/design and could very well result in lower pressures for the PB boolit. This is problematic as you could end up with a lodged boolit in the barrel due to poor/eratic ignition of the lower pressures. Shooting at night may also be an issue with H110 in such a short barrel as it will create a heck of a flame ball at the muzzle.

[Southern Shooter]

Thank ya'll for the input so far.

The purporse of this gun and round would be defensive in nature. I just want something to give me a chance if I run into a large creature while I am fishing in Montana. So, yes, this gun would be used for something close-range...20 yards or less. Long-distance accuracy is not a concern, here.

Velocity wise, I was thinking of pushing this bullet from the short-barreled Alaskan at roughly 950-1,000 FPS. I was thinking gas checks would not be such a concern for this velocity of round. But, I guess the weight of the bullet is something I did not factor into the equation...and, of course the pressure it would take to get that bullet moving relatively fast from a 2 1/2" of barrel.

Accurate Molds, LLC has one 360 grain and two 400 grain gas-checked molds that might be considered. What do ya'll think of these? I was sure hoping to avoid gas-checks.

H-110 seems to be a constant powder in terms of recommendations. Which other powder would you suggest that would get this weight bullet from a short-barreled gun moving at roughly 1,000 fps?

Thanks

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-360B-D.png
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-400A-D.png
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-400B-D.png

[RobS]

You don't need a gas check for the velocities you're after, I was only stating that the load charges in which you have looked at were probably with gas checked bullets and something to consider during load development of a similar weight plain base bullet. The lower velocities you are after with the 360 grain PB boolit would do well with 2400 and there will be less flash at the muzzle. Next as to more velocity with lower pressures for the PB would be #9. #9 is a ball powder, but is more forgiving than H110/Win296 at lower pressures. I shoot 18.5 of 2400 for a 340 grain PB design out of a 7.5" SRH and things are going very well on paper. Altough I've yet to chronograph anything yet. If I know I'm in safe pressure territory, I will usually work a load up for accuracy and then chrono later.

[Southern Shooter]

Careful here as the load data you are looking at is probably of a 360 grain gas check design, most is when it comes to 360 grain bullets in the 454 Casull. A GC design will yield more pressures vs a plain base of similar weight/design and could very well result in lower pressures for the PB boolit. This is problematic as you could end up with a lodged boolit in the barrel due to poor/eratic ignition of the lower pressures.


RobS, would not a plain-base bullet fitted to the gun's chamber throats and bore make a difference there? Would that not prevent the concerns you mention with a plain-based? Could you not push it fairly hard and fast?

Thanks

[RobS]

Every cast boolit should be sized right for the particular firearm for best results. A PB boolit sized to your cylinder throat's diameter will work very well providing the bore's groove diameter is .001-.002smaller. Some people may even be .003 over the bore's groove diameter in revolvers as they fill the cylinder thoats of their gun. An undersized boolit is not good for accuracy and the barrel will likely lead.

GC boolits simply have more resistance so they will create more pressures if everything else is equal (boolit shape/design/weight/alloy etc.)

[Southern Shooter]

RobS,

Yes, I think you are correct. I need to go back and look at the load data. Some of the information I was looking at could have been GC bullet loads.

What is the secret to getting a 360 grain, .45 caliber bullet to leave a 2 1/2" barrel at 1,000 fps??

Thanks

[RobS]

Really no secret; make sure the guns put together right (bore groove diameter to cylinder throat diameter, no constrictions in the barrel and cylinder to bore alignment is straight) followed by correctly sizing boolits and the choosing the right alloy for the pressures you plan on loading at (boolit/powder combo).

[Southern Shooter]

Hello,

I wrote Tom of Accurate Molds and asked if he could put a gas check on the #45-360V plain-base mold. Well, he sent me an e-mail back saying he added that design to his catalogue for me. And, sure enough, he did. Take a look. I think it will meet my needs perfectly.

Thanks

30539

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-360G-D.png

[RobS]

Design looks fine. The PB boolit would work too especially since you are not planning on working it hard. The thing about a GC design is it does/will make it easier regarding load development as there is simply more latitude having a metallic cup on the base of the boolit. It helps protect against gas cutting and also grips the rifling better under certain circumstance (higher pressures for alloy strength). One of the more important things to make sure of is that the boolit diameter fits your gun.

[noylj]

I can't help it...when I see this type of design, all I can think is that someone is re-inventing the wadcutter.
Pretty, though...

[RobS]

I can't help it...when I see this type of design, all I can think is that someone is re-inventing the wadcutter.
Pretty, though...

The meplat is 86% which is not reinventing a WC. However this design does have a very wide meplat being that a standard by LBT has wfn's designs that are .090 smaller than the boolit diameter which would be a .360 meplat or so for a 45 cal boolit (about 80%). A LBT LFN design runs .125 smaller than the boolit diameter or .320-.330 at about 72% for the 45 cal realm.

I am in between my self and design my 45 cal molds with a 75% melplat, neither a LFN nor a WFN but closer to the LFN as I use them in my lever action and prefer this for longer range shooting. If I was only shooting a revolver then I would run more toward the WFN dimensions.

[felix]

Ask Tom to include some draft, like 3 degrees on the nose. Gear mentioned this, and unless you are an extremely patient caster, I would take his advice to the bank. ... felix

[geargnasher]

Here's a better idea of what I was talking about with the draft:

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28349&d=1294465433

Tom's moulds work so well they'll even make decent boolits out of zinc contaminated alloy like those in the pic if you fiddle with the temps enough.

Gear

[Southern Shooter]

I apologize for being persistant on this issue. I am just unsure of myself.

If I get a plain base, 360 grain bullet, that fits my gun's cylinder throats and bore, with a goal of no more than 1,000 FPS from a 2 1/2" .454 Casull barrel, with water-quinched wheel weights as the casting material...gas checks are NOT such an issue?? Leading should not be a concern??

Thanks

[RobS]

If your gun has a smooth barrel with no constrictions and your cylinder throats are .001+ over the barrel's groove diameter then it shouldn't be a problem pushing PB boolits. IMR 4227 will be easier to ignite of the slower powders and won't blow such a flame ball as would H110/win 296. You may be able to reach out with 2400 without issues and #9 will likely be ok too. If you have some 2400 around I would try it first since you have the short barrel. Then either IMR 4227, or #9 followed lastly by H110/296.

If it were me I wouldn't get a GC design for what you are after. If you are up for a PatMarlin PB GC maker then you could have everything you wanted. It was easy for me; sold a GC mold and bought a PatMarlin PB GC maker, now I'm just awaiting the tool. Actually I sold off all my 45 cal GC molds.

[Blackhawk45hunter]

I push a 325 gr PB at 1100+ in my blackhawk with absolutely NO leading. All it takes is a decent lube and a good barrel fit.

[noylj]

RobS: +1
I would just go with 2400. Wonderful powder and it will give you 1000fps.
Never have fired a gas check in a .44 Mag and never needed one.
Now, max loads for my 7mm TCU did do better with a gas check.

[44man]

I started to make all of my molds PB and shoot them in everything including the .45, .454 .475, .500 Linebaugh, .500 JRH, .50 Alaskan and 45-70. I have not had time to make one for the .44 yet.
I get such great accuracy with no leading I wonder if a GC is ever needed in a revolver. The 45-70 is over 1600 fps.
With the short barrel of the Alaskan, in fact with any .45 Colt I don't think that heavy of a boolit is needed. You get all the penetration needed with a 300 gr boolit plus more internal damage from a higher velocity. I like the 335 gr LBT from my 7-1/2" barrel for the accuracy but it does a poor job on deer as far as internal damage and quick kills. A 320 gr .44 will put deer on the ground twice as fast because of more velocity of 1335 fps compared to 1100 fps from the 7-1/2" Colt with the 335 gr.
Penetration is no problem and each will go through a 16" tree. Even the 265 gr RD from a .44 will penetrate 33" of soaked phone books.
Remember that just going heavier and heavier just gives more penetration until velocity can't be reached and penetration starts to fall off again. As velocity is reduced so does internal damage and a bear might live long enough for a snack! [smilie=1:
You really do need some velocity, there is a balance and as a barrel gets shorter, you lose the velocity so the weight is no advantage at all.
I would prefer a boolit that will bust up everything in a bear and still penetrate. I don't like hole pokers.

[white eagle]

I agree w/44
I find that most of the heavies cramp the powder space
unless they have a good design
personally I do not go much past 325 in 45

[pmer]

I must have been smart by half asking for the 45-300G for my lever action. In have not chrono-d it yet but it really beats up my steel swinging target and its stand. 23.0 of H110 in 45 colt and feeds through the lever good.