Cast in Sig Sauer P229

[Firebricker]

I'm looking into buying a Sig 229 in 40 S&W and want to know how they do with cast boolits. Couldn't find much info in my search. Was hoping to get mold and weight suggestions as well. Thanks in advance FB

[9.3X62AL]

Not specific to the SIG P-229 (which is a right fine handgun!), but the Lee 175 TC/conventional lube groove has been a great performer in a Beretta 96--CZ-75B--and Glock 23/Storm Lake barrel. At 800-950 FPS, the boolit will meet or beat factory-load and jacketed handload accuracy.

[xr650]

The boolit that Al referenced works great in my 226. As does a 150 gr. TC Group buy.

[pdawg_shooter]

Don't know about a P229 but my P220 (German made) thrives on cast bullets.

[Firebricker]

Thanks for the responses. I haven't seen much on the Sig's and how their rifled or if after market barrels were recommended. A local dealer has some pretty good deals on police trades that has me interested but any handgun I buy has to like Boolits ! FB

[Johnch]

My 229 in 40 S&W loves cast
The Lee 175 gr standard lube shoots good

The 200 gr GB actualy shoots Point of Aim at 50feet
No need to hold 6 oclock like with most cast and J bullets

John

[pdawg_shooter]

I have heard of some quality issues on the later US made Sigs, That is why I specified German made. I know of no problems personally, but there are some on the Sig forum that have complained. As for me, it would take a bunch of money to get my Sig away from me.

[Firebricker]

Well I went and bought one of the police trade used Sig p229 last night. They had several in .40 S&W a picked the one that seemed to have the tightest slide to frame fit. It says frame made in Germany on the side. Pistol was as is no box one magazine for $519 seemed like a good price. It's in nice shape just some holster wear like you would expect on a gun that was carried every day. I should have a mold in a few days to get started probably the Lee that was recommended. Thanks again for the advise will report back once I get some boolits through it. FB

[rosewood]

My 229 in 40 S&W loves cast
The Lee 175 gr standard lube shoots good

The 200 gr GB actualy shoots Point of Aim at 50feet
No need to hold 6 oclock like with most cast and J bullets

John

Resurrecting old post. Do you size them for your Sig? I cast them with the Lee, lubed with 45/45/10 and loaded, got severe leading. The leading was so bad, there was loose lead hanging in the barrel after 10 rounds. I used Bluedot powder.

Thanks,
Rosewood

[9.3X62AL]

Is the 45/45/10 a liquid lube poured over the bullets? Mine get sized for 40 S&W @ .401" and lubed with Alox/beeswax. SIG P-226 and P-228 get sized to .357" and lubed the same, P-220 sized @ .452" and again Alox/BW. I don't mean to sound uninformed, but I'm not a tumble-luber or a bullet painter. I roll Old School.

Most leading problems can be traced to dimensional dissonance between bullet and throat, a bullet made too small to fit either as-cast or via the tooling that delivers it to the casing. Undersized expander spuds and over-application of taper crimp dies are the usual suspects in high-pressure autopistol rounds when severe leading occurs. In the 9mm, 40 S&W, and 10mm calibers you are essentially dealing with rifle pressures every shot, and with rifle twist rates in most barrels. If fit isn't PERFECT and that bore isn't well-sealed, you will spring a gas leak and spray lead downbore ahead of the bullet that the bullet subsequently irons onto the barrel's surface.

[Bad Andy]

Been shooting cast in my 229 for 2 years now, no issues and great accuracy. Shooting a Lee 175 gn SWC, Allox lubed with Unique...but moslty Bullseye powder.

[rosewood]

45/45/10 is 45% alox, 45% Johnson paste wax and 10% mineral spirits, it is tumble lube and is what I have seen several recommend on this forum. I was wondering if other 229 shooters were having leading and if not what are they doing different from me. I just got a .401 sizing die in the mail yesterday and will have to try sizing to see if it helps. I was shooting unsized and they were about .402 if I remember correctly. Also casting straight wheel weights.

[rosewood]

Hmm, now I am thinking. I am using a Lee factory crimp die and it may have sized down the boolit when crimping. Will have to try using just the seater die and not using the FC and see what difference it makes.

[9.3X62AL]

That may be a good first step.

If you have a micrometer, mic the expander plug that came with your die set. (My RCBS set's plug was .396", which is useless with .401" cast bullets). I use a Lyman Multi-Charge Die spud that mics .398" and a few tenths.

DO NOT seat bullets while setting a taper crimp or profile crimp. I will guarantee you a downsized bullet if you do so. Seat bullets as a discrete step; THEN set a crimp as another discrete step--and don't go Mongo-strong on crimping. The idea is to turn in the case mouth flare, NOT to bury the case mouth into the bullet sidewall. A little is good, a lot more is NOT a lot better--quite the opposite.

[rosewood]

Hmm, that may be the problem with both my .40 and .45. I am using the factory powder funnel with the Dillon press and or the powder funnel for the autodisk. I bet they both are too small for cast boolits. I am going to have to look into getting funnels that open up the mouth more and not use a FL crimp die.

Thanks!!

[rosewood]

Here is what I found. Seems Lee powder/expander plugs are more cast friendly than Dillon.

Dillon 45 powder funnel/expander is about .446
Lee funnel/expander is about .450, so it should be good for .45 acp cast

Dillon .40 is .387
Lee is .400 (however, it is a very short neck and may not be expanding the case deep enough)

Dillon .357 is measuring .355 (will probably be perfect for 9mm)
Lee .357 is measuring .357

Now I have to do something about the crimp die. I use Lee for 357 and 40 and I think it may be swaging down with the Factory Crimp Die. For 45, I use Dillon and it doesn't do that I don't think, so I am good there if I use the Lee powder funnel.

[DR Owl Creek]

... I am using a Lee factory crimp die and it may have sized down the boolit when crimping. Will have to try using just the seater die and not using the FC and see what difference it makes.

BINGO!!!


I have a SIG 229 Equinox, and it shoots great with cast bullets, actually much better than with factory jacketed ammo like Federal American Eagle or Winchester USA.

For me, the NOE 403 180gr RF-PB, cast from wheel weight alloy, sized to .401", and lubed with White Label Xlox 2500+, is a really good substitute for factory loads. I use a light taper crimp (about .002" to .003") to about .421" to prevent bullet set-back and insure complete/clean burn, and an OAL of 1.125". My best loads so far:

Best Group: 6.7 grains IMR 800-X, POI centered about 2 3/4" below POA at 25 yards;
2nd Best: 4.5 grains W-231, POI centered about 1" below POA at 25 yards; and,
3rd Best: 5.0 grains Unique, POI centered about 3/4" below POA at 25 yards.

As always, start low and work up!

These loads shoot very well with no leading, no unburned powder, smoke, etc. For me, 800-X, W231, and Unique have usually been the top performers overall so far. One powder might be the best with one load/gun combination; another powder might be the best with another. Bullseye has usually been no better than the 5th best powder. I also have Power Pistol, but I haven't had the chance to try it yet.

Today is cold and snowy, with wind gust to 30+ mph. Tonight it's supposed to drop down to about -5 degrees. Tomorrow's high is supposed to be 6 degrees, and tomorrow's low is supposed to be about -4. I want to tweak these loads some more, and try some other moulds too. I, however, won't have much more to report for awhile.

Dave

[9.3X62AL]

I'm not trying to "knock" Dillon's (or anyone else's) die dimensioning. Most die makers "bias" their internal measurements in favor of the components getting the most use, and for a long while that meant jacketed bullets. As you have observed, Lee dies are a little lead-friendlier than Dillon--Lee is in the bullet casting business, so that makes sense. Lyman dies tend to be more lead-friendly as well, and they have moulds in their product line. RCBS' corporate partner Speer is in the jacketed bullet business in a large way, and most of their die choices cater to that market segment. They do produce their Cowboy Die Sets that are biased strongly toward cast bullets, though.

One of the shortcomings the hobby environment of bullet casting suffers under is the lack of fully informing reloaders venturing into the craft of the shift in mindset and focus required to have the best outcomes with the poured ones. The relative delicacy of lead bullets compared to their jacketed counterparts really gets lost in translation, and die set dimensional bias favoring jacketed bullets over castings barely gets a nod. There is more to the matter than just switching bullet types to "save money". There is almost always a larger investment in time to turn out satisfactory cast bullet ammunition--more die steps, more care in bullet handling and preparation. Cast bullets are not a free lunch, especially when high-pressure autopistol calibers are the matter at hand.

[rosewood]

Hey Dave, 61 degrees out there now. Went a little trail riding earlier after a trip to the hardware store. :) Was just thinking about going and riding some more.

This casting is more complex than jacketed for sure. I still have a long way to go, but I think I am getting there. I found Lee sells a "taper" crimp die for .45, .40 and .357. I will be ordering me a .40 and .357 soon. I think that will solve the swaging down on the final crimp stage.

[9.3X62AL]

Sorry about your weather woes, Dave. The Northeast of our country is getting hammered something awful. Today by the beach 3 miles north of Mexico it got to the low 70s.

[Mitch]

I have a p226 that leads badly in just a few shots.it I is a factory remanufacture.the barrel slugs at .402.i use the lee 175 tc boolit.I have lee dies for it and have made a new larger dia and longer expander plug for it.so I get no case swedge down.

I have tried from heavy to light crimps.different lead hardness from 12bhn to 18bhn.Nothing seems to work.my mold drops at .4025 I size with my lyman 450 with a .403 die using white lable carnuba red.it seems to me it should shoot fine.

The gun is 2 years old and a US made.The leading allways starts in the same spot about 1 o clock looking from the chaber right at the begining of the barrel.the sopt where the leading starts is not very big from it stays in the range of 12 to 3 o clock.Someone mentioned in this post that there have been some problems with some of the newer guns could this be one of them.or is just the light has not come on here yet. I am using winchster 231

[9.3X62AL]

Mitch--

What does the barrel's throat slug at?