Garand Brass Question

[cabezaverde]

Because I love my Garand, I have decided to limit my military 06 brass to 3 reloads with spec ja***ted bullet loads.

Because I am cheap, I am thinking about then relegating that brass to cast only loads in my bolt guns.

Sound plan, or just toss it?

[NickSS]

Personally I have shot the same brass in my M1 10 or more times per case without a problem as long as I sized them so that I only push the shoulder back about .001" or so. It actually stands up pretty good. I have also shot GI brass in bolt guns more than 40 times without a failure by neck sizing and annealing every three or four reloads and these were with full house loads. As for cast I occasionally split a neck if I do not anneal every so often but it is so seldom that I have been using some brass for 20 years or more. What you propose is very conservative.

[cabezaverde]

My concern is that a lot of this brass is WW2 vintage.

[Larry Gibson]

Get an RCBS X-die (regular base as the small base is not needed with the M1) FL sizer and you can get upwards of 20+ regular J bullet firings per case before incipient head seperation sets in and you won't have to trim the cases either.

Larry Gibson

[cabezaverde]

Larry,

Would you trust this old stuff that much?

[frkelly74]

I guess I would trust it. I have had two heads separate and the only problem was getting the front part of the brass out of the chamber. I now usually carry a 50 cal bore brush and a tapping rod as a broken shell extractor
shove the brush into the shell and push it out from the muzzle.

I had gotten some brass in a trade that looked really nice but was sized a little short somehow. So the rest I pulled and it is now in its second life as 7mm mauser brass.

Using too much powder or the wrong powder or possibly a bore obstruction is what kills rifles and hurts / kills shooters. Brass is pretty good at doing what it is supposed to even when it fails.

[Jack Stanley]

I'm with NickSS on this , I've adjusted my regular sizing die to fit the chamber of the rifle I'm working with and got ten loads before a neck split . I know that if I had annealed cases about every five firings that would not likely have happened .

Jack

[NickSS]

I am shooting brass that was made anywhere from 1918 through the late 70s but the bulk of it is WWII between 1941 and 1945. I also have a good batch from the 50s and some Korean stuff from the 70s and it all works about the same. The only bad 3006 brass I ever had was some french stuff from the late 40s. It was berdan primed so I did not reload it but had several split on firing. I got a lot of WWII stuff because when I worked on Adak in the Alutians backl in 1973 we found a bunker with 4 million rounds of MG ammo that had to be destroyed. The Marines destroyed it by running it through some browning MGs and wore out every barrel they had. I managed to glome onto something like 20,000 rounds for my fun and games. I managed to wear out two Model 70 Winchesters shooting it off. I can still see bullets splashing in the Bering Sea when shooting at sea birds floating around a mile off shore. You really had to morter them in. When I left I sent all the empties I could get into my car back to the lower 48 and sold a lot of it but still have several thousand on hand.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I've been setting up my Garand supply of brass myself. I load for three of them plus three Springfields and hopefully a BAR soon. Therefore, I do like Mike Venturino does and load large lots of Garand-safe ammo. I also have to full-length resize every loading. Because of this, I bought the RCBS X-die. With this die, even with full-length resizing, the brass doesn't stretch much, so it lasts much longer. Loading down for the Garand's gas system also extends case life.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry,

Would you trust this old stuff that much?

I guess I would as I've been "trusting" WWII '06 cases for many, many years. I've some DEN 42 that has had I don't know how many cast bullet loads through it out of several M1s and BARs. With the Xdie and cast bullet loads, of say 30 gr 4895, dacron filler under a 180 - 210 gr bullet, you'd probably lose the cases in the grass or have a neck split before a head seperation. Besides. back in my early M14/M1A HP competition days I had numerous partial and complete head seperations with full power .308W loads, never hurt a thing. Not saying that's the thing to do mind you. Best to avoid it "just because' and using the X die you will avoid it.

Larry Gibson

[Crash_Corrigan]

Using the x dia and cast boolit loadings that peak out at 1800 FPS I have loaded some =06 cases upwards of 25 times without any problems. Annealing the cases about every 5th loading also helps somewhat.

If I keep the velocity down I can extend the life of these cases for a long time. I bought a few spam cans of GREEK SURPLUS AMMO from CMP a few years ago and although I have kept two cans intact for WTSHTF days which I hope never arrive (it is nice to have about 400 rounds loaded in clips and in bandoliers) in a safe place the remainder have gone into rotation and have stood up well over the years.

According to Ed Harris (The load) about 12 to 14 gr of Red Dot powder under a cast boolit does not stress the weapon or the casing and I have had excellent results over the years and I have saved a buncha brass doing it.

Low recoil and report with the brass piling up in a neat pile to the front and slightly to the right makes picking up the emgties an easy chore. The joy of shooting the Garand and hearing the report and then seeing the smoke and then hearing the loud CLANG of the round impacting the steel target at ranges of up to 350 yds is a joy which is seldom duplicated.

My intention is to have at least 2,000 rounds loaded and stored for each of my 22 firearms at all times. It is pretty much too expensive for my shotguns but for all the others it is a no brainer.

My recent acquistions of a .41 Mag and a .44 Special revolver have put me behind somewhat but the speed and simplicity of a Dillon Square Deal press have put those rounds in my larder without too much trouble. The cost of the brass was a bear to me but now that I have them I am getting a lot of fun out of shooting both these revolvers. Again I am not trying to get the rounds to go at anything over 900 FPS and the recoil and expenses are being kept low.

I have been a steady customer of Starline Brass on the internet and when I buy 2,500 cases at a time they generally give me a very decent price on them. I have loaded up and stored 2,000 rounds of each calibre and the remaining 500 are the ones that I shoot over and over again.

The recent purchase of the Thumbler's Tumbler has made the cleaning process a lot easier and faster as when doing these cases I punch out the primers prior to cleaning and the system really cleans out the primer pockets as well. Then I run them thru the Dillon Square Deal press and utilizing Unique powder from an 8 lb jug I still keep the prices down to a reasonable level. I load 7.4 gr of Unique under a 220 gr lead cast boolit for the .41 Mag and 6 gr only for the .44.

Both loadings give me good accuracy and effect on steel out to 75 yds and do not beat me up nor do they abuse the guns at all. No leading and no damage to the cases.

Loading up the .41 Magnum to full boat hunting loadings requires me to use Accurate #9 and expend a lot more money on powder and gives my hands a workout and also puts some lead into the bore of my Smith Model 57. I have only done it less than 100 times and just basically to see what this gun can do.

At 125 yds I can hit the steel target with authority but the recoil and muzzle blast are not fun and it is a chore not a joy anymore. I would rater use less powder and get less FPS and lob the rounds to the target.

With the lighter loadings I have practiced enuf to be able to hit a prarie dog sized target at 75 to 100 yds and that is my next intention....shoot at that distance in Southern Utah at a colony of Prarie Dogs. Of course I will also have a .223 and a 6.5 Sweede for the longer shots.

[badbob454]

shhhhh.... my brass dosent know how old it is ...

[daviddoo]

Is it possible to use commercial brass to reload for the M1 Garand or is it too flimsy?

[badbob454]

i dont know the answer to that question i guess it would depend on the tightness of the case in the rifle too much looseness will probably wear out or crack thinner cases , i would try it myself and see how many shots you can get out of them , the military are thicker and may not swell as much upon firing , but cannot hold as much powder without higher pressure , i say go for it ..any others?

[daviddoo]

Thanks, I'll give it a try. I was concerned because one of my reloader friends said the commercial brass could not take the punishment of extraction and would fail at the head.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Sounds like your friend doesn`t have an M-1 and is repeating hearsay.Robert

[mold maker]

I have several military rifles in 30-06. I do have to keep the brass separated by magic marker color so that neck sizing is all I need.
I haven't had a problem with commercial brass, and most have 7-10 light to med. loadings.

[rmcc]

I have fired both military and commercial brass through my Garands. Have never seen a difference between the 2 as far as performance goes and brass life. I load 49 gr IMR 4895 with M2 147 gr FMJ for all my gereral purpose load. For match, I have a bunch of LC 68 that I have sorted and keep for match use. For that I still use the same load of IMR 4895 but switch to Hornady 150 gr FMJ. I, personally, have never had a head separation but I know it is a matter of time. Good luck shooting!

[daviddoo]

Thanks. I appreciate the info about both the brass and the 4895 load data. I have a good amount of commercial brass from my hunting rifle that will be put into use.

[jonk]

That brass is positively new. I bought a bag of 800 at an antique store in Wisconsin dated 1904 through 1941. Segregated by year, I've had about a 10% failure rate in 10 years of shooting it. And I've only rarely annealed it (causes more trouble than it solves if you don't do it right).

I second the idea that it's very conservative to do what you're proposing and i see no issues with it.

[ilcop22]

I once believed someone when they said brass cases should be retired from M1 Garands after 1-2 reloads. Just inspect each case (as you probably already do) prior to reloading, and scrap 'em when they develop issues. I couldn't tell you the number of reloads my brass has gone through.

[daviddoo]

Can you just neck size for the M1 Garand as long as you only shoot the brass through that gun? I read somewhere that you should fully size brass every reloading for all semi-automatic rifles. Also in that vein, the same question stands for the AK47 and AR15. Should I use the factory crimp die or just crimp eneough to remove the bell from the expander die?

[new2cast]

After three reloads I'll pay you to ship me your brass

[new2cast]

And to simply answer post 22 (davidoo) you cannot neck size for the Garand. As a general rule, always full length size for an automatically cycling load.

Serious question: do you need it explained why neck sizing for a Garand is a no go?

[daviddoo]

I've been full sizing for all my 223 loads. I was just curious due to the fact some posters recommended neck sizing for the Garand and I have not reloaded for it yet.

[rmcc]

I have a bunch of LC 68 that I keep sorted for matches. Some of it has been loaded 6+ times. You need to full length resize everytime and trim as needed. This lot of brass is very uniform and needs trimmed after 2 loadings. Keep in mind with the Garand you are working under the limits of your OP rod. Out of three types I know of the 1/2 moon relief cut type is more tolerant of stress due to either high pressure loads or too heavy of bullet with long bearing surface. Other than that, I have never had much problem with brass in my Garand experience.