35 Rem Load development.

[robroy]

I'm a fan of slower powders. As such I've followed the advice of some on the board and picked a powder that comes close to 100% case fill (to the neck) at my desired velocity range . So I started with Rem brass partial full length sized and primed with cci 200 and a load of 37.3 gr Varget working up in 1 gr increments to 41.3 gr. under a Ranch Dog 359190 cast of water dropped WW tumble lubed with LLA then checked and sized to .359, and again tumble lubed. These are seated to the forward crimp groove. The loads will be fired in a Micro Groove Marlin 336 SC. I have no hardness tester or chrono. I got to this load by taking 105% of Hodgdon's max load for a Hdy 200gr rn and backing off 10%.

Now the questions: 1) Since this starting load fills the case to the shoulder, I'm wondering if I may be loading too much into this cartrige? If I'm courting disaster please give me a heads up.

2) Is Varget slow enough to give the boolit the gentle push before peak pressure I've heard discribed here.

3)I also have IMR 4895, H335, and H4198 to try and have based loads on either Hodgdon's loads in the same way as the above load or backed off 10% from the loads on Ranch Dog's site. Does anyone see any problem with these loads in the Marlin?

Thanks in advance.

Rob

[excess650]

I don't see Varget in Ranch Dog's loading data for the 35 Remington. In that it is slower burning than most of his listed powders, it may well have been too bulky to achieve the target load density and pressure.

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/bin/TLC359190RF/data/loadnotes02.pdf

Ranch Dog has chosen to develop his data with the Marlin 336 platform as its base, so didn't limit his data to the lower pressure that SAAMI chose. SAAMI spec is supposed to be safe in those 100 year old Remington Model 8, Stevens 425 Highpower, and (?) other old, weak designs.

Starting lower, within SAAMI spec is prudent. Work up your loads and see how your rifle reacts.

[madsenshooter]

I've tried some surplus 4895 behind a boolit of about the same weight and got a bit of unburned powder, even though the case was full. This powder was supposed to burn about the same rate as 4064, as does Varget, not enough pressure to get it to burn properly, least not my powder. 4198 may work better if you're looking for a slightly reduced load. AA2015 really worked well for me in the 35 Rem, single digit standard deviations. Anyway robroy, I don't think you're courting disaster with your Varget load, it just might not burn too clean, and pressure ought to be down below 34,000psi. Only problem I had with Ranch Dog's higher pressure loads in my Marlin was primer cratering due to an oversize firing pin hole. The primers were cratered but the edges nice and rounded. Those upper end loads are sure brick busters!

[Nobade]

I normally use a full (compressed) load of 3031 in mine, and that is a lot faster than Varget. You will not overpressure with Varget. You also won't get very high velocity.

[NHlever]

For some reason, I haven't had much luck with some of the slower burning (for that caliber) powders, and softer hunting boolits in the .35 Remington. I worked with one Marlin a few years ago, and couldn't get enough pressure to achieve any reasonable hunting velocity with IMR-4895. I tried reducing the expander plug until I was actualy sizing the boolits, and still no joy. Once I used a hard alloy for the boolits I got the velocity, and pressure for clean burning I was looking for, but defeated the purpose of the load development which was a hunting load. In my current Marlin I can match factory velocities using air cooled wheel weights with no problems using AA-2015. I get wonderful accuracy, and the same point of impact as I do with the Hornady 200 gr. round nose bullet. A great combination of things that I'm not going to mess with. I use the "accuracy load" from Lyman's 49th loading manual for my load. It is a "max" load, but shows no signs of excess pressure in my gun.

[T-Bird]

I shoot 25gr IMR4198 / pinch of dacron under RCBS 35/200gr sized .359 for 1850 fps and great accuracy (2in@150yds) out of my 336 with microgroove. I stopped there. Shoot Straight, T-Bird

[Bret4207]

The 35 Rems small neck makes the slower powders a chore to get burning right. A heavy crimp may help but might not do much for accuracy.

I love the idea of slower, case filling powders but it's not an very efficient method really, especially at todays powder prices.

[Larry Gibson]

The expanion ratio of the 35 Rem case is extremely high and case capacity is not large enough for many medium burning powders on the slow end of the scale to work efficiently. Varget and 4064 both gave me the sme problems. However I went to 4895 under the RCBS 35-200-FN and found very good results when the case was loaded to optimum capacity. I use 37 gr if milsurp 4895 under that bullet for 2150 fps out of my 26" barreled M91 Argentine Mauser. I use that load with bullets cast of WWs + 2% for practice and 50/50 WW/lead for hunting. Several find that H335 also is a very good powder with 190 - 200 gr cast bullets in the 35 Rem.

Larry Gibson

[405]

The expanion ratio of the 35 Rem case is extremely low...
Larry Gibson

Isn't that backwards? The expansion ratio of the 35 Rem is fairly high. If one were to neck down a 35 Rem case to 22 cal and maintain the same barrel length then the expansion ratio of the 22/35 Wildcat would be considered fairly low and much lower than the parent 35 Rem.

Relatively speaking, for burn efficiency- the high expansion ratio cartridges favor faster powders and the low expansion ratio cartridges favor slower powders.

[Bret4207]

I dunno which way is correct, but that 22/35 Rem...now that'd be an interesting experiment.

[Larry Gibson]

405

Sheesh, where was I when I typed that....right you are:killingpc

The ratio is the volume of the bore measured from the base of the seated bullet to the muzzle compared to the volume of the case, thanks for the catch:drinks:

Larry Gibson

[405]

Larry,
I know what you mean! The high vs low expansion ratio terminology is almost counter intuitive at first glance. I have to slow down and double think it every time I use the expansion ratio concept. I catch myself "thinking high" with the fat cartridges and skinny bores AND the reverse by "thinking low" with the straighter walls/fat bores. :)

[357maximum]

I am glad my brain is not the only one that messes that up. :killingpc

at one time lands and grooves did the same thing to me...so maybe one of these days the expansion ratio glitch in me pea brain will get better too. Not holding my breath though. [smilie=b:

[Larry Gibson]

405 is so right, I think I'm only batting about 50% in getting that one right without having to think about it a lot.....the expansion ratio is good to understand just easy to get backwards as I can att:oops:est

Larry Gibson