New To BP Cartrige loading

[retiredPO]

I have a 1886 Trapdoor, and have been loading smokeless, and having a ball, but wanted to try some bp loads,.... (just cause I like cleanin the gun soooo much) anyway.... if 45-70 refers to 70 grs. of fffx powder.... the case dosent hold
but about 45 grs... plum full...... what am I missin....

[ss40_70]

the case should hold a bunch more than 45 grains even if you dont use a drop tube ... what cases are you using , most loads are at least slightly compressed depending on bullet seating depth and wads used etc etc .. do a search and youll find tons of info on this sight on the 45-70 and bp ...probly more than youll want to read at one sitting

[littlejack]

rPO:
Welcome to the CastBoolits.
You are correct in that the "70", does refer to the black powder charge. There should be no reason at all why you cannot get a full 70 grains of bp in any 45-70 case. Most folks use 2F in their 45-70's, me included. If you read some od the threads on this BP site, you will have most of your questions answered.
That being said, I use the "reveared" 70 grain charge of 2F Goex in my 45-70 loads. I compress before seating the boolit. I use a .030 card wad with "1" news print wad between the .030 wad and the base of the boolit. I top it all off with the 457125 boolit of 20-1 alloy.
That load is about as basic as one can get. I lube my boolits with Emmerts recipe.
As far a cleanup goes, you must use BP lube on your boolits, or you will have a real mess.
Using the BP lube, you will have a very easy time in cleanup of your bp rifle.
Read the multitude of bp threads on this site, you will learn a mountain of information.
Always remember, "never leave any air space between the top of the bp charge, and the
base of your seated boolit."
Jack

[NickSS]

If all you can get in your case is 45 gr you must have some special brass that reduces the load. I load hundreds of 45-70s every year and my loads go anywhere from 60 gr to 75 gr depending upon the bullet and amount of compression I am using. I have also loaded reduced loads and filled the extra space with corn meal. Remember no air space allowed. If you do not have one I recommend that you pick up a compression die for the powder as I have found that some of my best loads use quite a bit of compression of the powder especially when using GOEX Powder. Two tips make your bullets soft and use a good BP lube.

[bigted]

welcome to a most habit forming and hair pulling side of reloading. you will find that you start dreaming of the stuff and doing strange experiments to "prove" the validity of some claims here. youll find that after yarding back on the trigger with a full case of blackpowder inside your case and pushing the very boolit that you created from scrap lead...that the habit forming bp is already inside your veins.

welcome to the forum.

Ted

[Don McDowell]

I have a 1886 Trapdoor, and have been loading smokeless, and having a ball, but wanted to try some bp loads,.... (just cause I like cleanin the gun soooo much) anyway.... if 45-70 refers to 70 grs. of fffx powder.... the case dosent hold
but about 45 grs... plum full...... what am I missin....

The 70 actually refers to 70 grs of 1f, and yes that will fit in the case just fine.
As others have said if you can't get more than 45 grs in the case you got problems somewhere, either with the case or your scale's not so good.
Load 70 grs of 2f a .030 fiber wad and seat a 500 gr lyman or saeco government bullet to the driving band.
Cleanup is really no big deal, push a dry patch down the bore, followed by a couple of wet (plain water will work) patches and another dry. Repeat as necessary and when the dry patch comes out clean, put your favorite gun oil on it and push it thru the bore. Entire deal takes about 10 minutes.
Punch the primers out of the case and soak and clean them in water and detergent of some kind, let dry and you're good to go again. If you're worried about pretty cases run them thru the tumbler after they're dry.

[John Boy]

the case dosent hold but about 45 grs... plum full.....
How long is that case?

[craveman85]

most people go with around 63-68 grains normally. i prefer 3f due to higher velocities, and cleaner burns. still looking for somewhere around here that sells swiss powder. its supposed to have more consistency, higher velocity, and burn the cleanest. just make sure the case is full and there are several people down wind of you.

[craveman85]

are you using real black powder or a lighter weight substitute and measuring by weight.

[retiredPO]

Ive been using pyrodex FFG I also have a 1862 .58 cal that I have been shooting great for target with 65 grs.... and a 460 gr. minni....
you guys are right about the addictiveness of bp and reloading in general.... I took the .58 to a friends house who didnt know I had it, he put a target up at 50 yrs, and put two in the red (about coffee cup circle size) and I think he fell in love....
As far as the cases Im using they are standard 45-70 I was not compressing at all.... will do more reading.

[Don McDowell]

Well that explains the weight thing. You are not using blackpowder, pyrodex is a substitute designed to be used on a volume basis.

[BSkerj]

Good catch Craveman...that is what I love about this sight...everyone pitches in and tries to solve things..by thinking inside and outside of the box !

[John Boy]

Good catch Craveman...that is what I love about this sight...everyone pitches in and tries to solve things..by thinking inside and outside of the box ! And it only took one page to do it!

[retiredPO]

I appreciate your expertise...... so how much pyrodex do I put in the 45-70 case, or do I go to real BP

[ss40_70]

switch to the real thing , easier to clean up , cheaper in most cases , more acurate , and the best part it smells better

[bigted]

I appreciate your expertise...... so how much pyrodex do I put in the 45-70 case, or do I go to real BP


THATS EASY......."NONE"

get the real thing and you will never look back...ask me how i know this. seriously bubba...that awfull stuff is nothing like the real thing. yours is hard to get clean and keep it clean and if ignored it will flash rust the ****e outta stuff you never see till too late. not so with BLACK POWDER. the real mcoy will clean up with ease and stay clean with a small bit of oil. the real stuff will meter like its suppose to and you can weigh the charges to start with in search for the rite on load. real will compress like nobodys business. real stuff smells like gunpowder. real stuff explodes like gunpowder is suppose to. real stuff has no shelf life....read eternity as compared to the fake stuff[[ keep it dry and in the dark and use the same powder 100 years from now]].

ok ok ok...enough from the peenut gallary. i learned my lesson the hard way...[dont think i can learn any other way]...but get some real blackpowder [ like goex ] and dont look back as that is the real stuff that will infect your senses and flutter around inside your noggin as well as infuse your very blood flow....:bigsmyl2:...[smilie=p:...[smilie=s:

[retiredPO]

Wow,.... Im excited... I cant wait to try it..... thank you....

[RMulhern]

I appreciate your expertise...... so how much pyrodex do I put in the 45-70 case, or do I go to real BP

Good Lord! I'd just as soon take a 'dump' down the bore than shoot that junk!!

[RMulhern]

Good Lord man!! I'd just as soon take a 'dump' down the bore than shoot that junk!!

:killingpc:groner:[smilie=b::holysheep:violin:[smilie=w:

[craveman85]

ive had to shoot pyrodex and 777 due to the availability of black powder and the quantity i go through. if you do have to use a substitute make sure you clean it really good afterwards or it will rust. then go buy more real bp. i feel good to have actually helped something instead of taking all the advice.

[craveman85]

you'll have to play with the amount of compression it likes too. my marlin 1895 cowboy likes 3f with .25" compression and thats all i can find that it likes for some reason. i forgot to prime a case once so i pulled the bullet and had to dig out the powder with a screwdriver.

[BSkerj]

What bullet are you using craveman ? I am in the middle of making up some 45/70's for my 1895, first time using BP. Thought that I would get some practice reloading some while I wait for my Shiloh Sharps to be made.

[ClemBert]

Pyrodex??? :veryconfu I thought this was the "Black Powder Cartridge" forum. LOL!

Pyrodex and ALL BP substitute powders are measured volumetrically NOT by weight. You'd need a volumetric measure to meter the right load with BP substitutes. With real FFg or FFFg BP you can weigh it because the weight will be good enough for guberment work. Theoretically, 100 grains of FFg BP by weight is equal to 100 grains FFg BP by volume. And, FFFg is close enough to FFg in this regard. YMMV!

[cajun shooter]

Look up my posting on my 1887 12 ga SXS after it was test fired with Pyrodex and then shipped to me. The pic will tell you the truth about Pyrodex and real BP!!

[bigted]

there are many cases like cajun's out there. nothing particularly "wrong" with using the aftermarket bp sub"s...its just that the potential for having a rust bucket on your hands is god-awfull high. i for one have the firearms i have at a high price and never want them to be subjected to the danger of these products...same as i wont use some cleaners as they are harmfull to most finish's found on my guns. just a personal thing with me and many others...have fun tho with whatever you choose to use.

[retiredPO]

I appreciate the understanding,.... I havent been able to find BP in the area yet....
Sheels doesnt carry it.... Im hopin for Bass Pro, There is a gun show this weekend, but they are pretty buzy arming Iowans,...with handguns.... If push comes to shove, I will go in with other folks and get one hasmat fee and have it shipped. Thanks again.....

[Don McDowell]

Hazmat fee is cheaper than a tank of gas.
Take a look at Grafs or Powder Inc. Grafs will ship you 1 lb if you want to stand the price, Powder Inc ships in 5 lb lots.

[kokomokid]

Dont cost much more to ship with powder inc than to pick up after you pay state tax. They were out of swiss last week but thought some would be in tomorrow. Great people to deal with.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have a bunch friends or fiends who all use black powder. We went into a group buy last year bought 50 lbs of black powder from Powder Inc. on the internet and got an excellent price. One hazmat fee and the price went down from $24.95 per lb to $18 and change per lb. A good deal and now we are again considering another buy but this time we will be getting probably 100 lbs in this shipment.

The local UPS driver hates me. Between alloy and powder and primer deliveries he is wondering what the heck I am doing with all this explosive and heavy stuff. He has delivered a lot more to me than any one person could possibly utilize over the last two years. Actually I am expecting a visit by some alphabet named Federal Agency pretty soon. Good thing I keep only nominal amounts of powder and firearms here in my little tin trailer. Most of my goodies are kept in another location far away from here.

[Patman]

You might also give Upper Missouri Trading Co. a try. They also sell in small quantitys. I ordered a case on the 15th and recieved it today. Great prices and excellent to deal with. Now to wait for my first match of the year !

[gunplumber]

here is what ive been loading in my 45/70, lyman 405, lyman 490, and rcbs 530, all loaded over 65 to 70 gr of 2f goex.

http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj395/dmack380/DSCN1512.jpg

[cajun shooter]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_59204d711c5f5bb33.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=98)

This is the pic of my shotgun after a gunsmith fired it with Pyrodex and then sent it to me via a 4 day UPS truck ride.