Played with the M1 today

[jonk]

9 different loads- 3 powders, 3 bullets. Bullets were:

Lee 200 gr sized to .310" (as cast- ran through .311" die but dropped at .310")
Lyman 311299 sized to .311"
Lyman 311291 sized to .311".

R-P brass, Felix lube. All bullets were gas checked and water dropped, 9 lb of clip on wheel weights plus 1/2 lb 50/50 solder.

Load 1: 42 gr IMR 4831 w/ dacron and mag primer. Best results with the 311299. None really great. This was the only load I had tried going into this experiment.

Load 2: 50 gr WC 872 w/ dacron and mag primer. Generally shot better than the 4831, but left more unburned powder- including just enough in the chamber to make follow up shots tricky. Might be a good bolt gun load. Or maybe up to 55 gr and see if that reduces unburnt powder.

Load 3: 30 gr surplus 4895 with standard primer and dacron. With the 311299, best of the day with a 1.5" group at 50 yards. Not great, but decent. Did not quite cycle action- ejects empties but doesn't chamber next round reliably. Also the only load to lead even slightly. (Manageable, and to be fair, was the last load I tested, meaning they were rounds 49-72 respectively). Might try 32 gr.

As a general observation, the 311291 shot best across the board with all loads, being beat only by the last 311299 4895 load. It also fed the best from the clip, though it required a fairly deep seating depth.

[Larry Gibson]

Jonk

Couple suggestions; WQ the 311299s or the 311291s which may prevent the leading at the velocity you are pushing that fairly soft alloy. Put a 1/2 - 3/4 gr dacron filler over the 30 gr load of 4895. That will give better, more consistent ignition and will increase the pressure and velocity a bit with either bullet. This may make it reliable in functioning. If not then increase the 4895 in 1/2 gr increments until it is reliable. You are working on the best combination I've found for use in most M1s.

Larry Gibson

[jonk]

Larry-

Thanks for the input, but all bullets were water quenched and had dacron filler. I just cleaned said gun; the leading wiped out easily so it was pretty mild, not to worry. I might re-test with 31 gr of the surplus as I have lots of surplus 4895. Glad to hear someone else has had luck with this combo.

I'll also say it ejected beautifully and all landed in a pile about 3 feet to my right and 5 feet behind me.

[Larry Gibson]

jonk

You're on track, just have to tweak the load to your rifle.

Larry Gibson

[Calamity Jake]

My load for my M1 is surp 4895, 34gr, dacron filler, 314299 @ .311 oven heat treated lubed with felix.
Cycles very well, shoot about 2.5-3 @ 100, IF I do my part.

[Jack Stanley]

Back when I was fooling with cast in the Garand using the 311334 , before I started with regular lube and gas check . I'd tumble the bullets in some Corbin dip lube and that added just enough extra lube to keep leading at bay without resorting to fillers . I think today you could do the same with Johnsons Paste Wax but if Dacron works for ya that's good too .

The only powder I worked with was MR 2520 though I forget the charge weights . Groups were as good as ball ammo at a hundred yards so I was happy with it .

Jack

[smokemjoe]

There is a cow load used with the WC 872 and WC860 that improves it , Like corn meal or flower on top the powder, Someone else maybe can help you on this.

[jonk]

Well mainly it was a proof of concept thing for when my supply of surplus is exhausted- which will be some years yet, I stocked up when it was cheap. Or to stretch said surplus a bit longer.

[Bullet Caster]

Some members have commented on commenting on an old thread that is probably dead. For new members it seems the only place to comment on a thread, no matter how old it is. My question is really toward Larry Gibson. Why couldn't one use a sliced thin cigarette filter with the paper removed and stuffed over the IMR 4895? Aren't cigarette filters made of dacron fiber? It would fit nicely over the powder in a 30-06 case. Probablly could stretch it a little before stuffin' it in, ya think? I know I can slice a pretty thin wafer with my exacto knife (I know some say it's an approxo knife). Just wanted to know if that might work. Probably would work in pinch IMHO. BC

[Char-Gar]

WC872 requires a little compression to get a decent clean burn. The dacron won't do it. I use PSB about .75 cc on top of the powder (50 grains) to get a better burn. But even in it's best days WC872 can leave trash in the barrel and chamber.

[400short]

I'm new to casting but not reloading for the garand. I see mention of some slow powders in this thread that I have been schooled to believe would exceed port pressure parameters, at least for jacketed bullets. Will someone experienced explain please?

[hydraulic]

I started using slow powders on the recommendation of Bob S (archive). 43/4831-Lee 200 worked well, but I ran out of WWII 4831. Now I use 872 with 46 grs and 1 oz of dacron and get the same good accuracy and reliable functioning of the action.

400 short: You are correct about the dangers of slow powder and heavy bullets when loading JACKETED bullets. Cast bullets are an entirely different case, and the loads mentioned about are perfectly safe.

[hydraulic]

1 grain of dacron, not 1 oz.

[madsenshooter]

Just uses tad of kicker powder under the 872, say 3gr of something in the Blue Dot, 2400 range will clean up the burn!

[MakeMineA10mm]

I'm new to casting but not reloading for the garand. I see mention of some slow powders in this thread that I have been schooled to believe would exceed port pressure parameters, at least for jacketed bullets. Will someone experienced explain please?

Let me start off by saying, I'm no expert, but like you, I was schooled to believe that there was some bug-a-boo about loading the Garand, much like shotgun shells, one was supposed to "stick to the exact recipe" and do not deviate...

Madsen Shooter actually suggested I go over to Culver's Shooting Pages forum and post a question there about a hunting load I was working on for the Garand. I found a fellow there named Parashooter who was able to explain the deal. It's a little technical, but after reading it a couple times, even I got it, so I think the best I can do is give you the link to read for yourself:

Parashooter's explanation of loading for the Garand Gas system. (http://www.jouster.com/forums/showthread.php?1165-M1-Garand-reload-with-VV-N150-amp-150gr-load&p=7338#post7338)

[400short]

A good read. Txs MMa10

[MakeMineA10mm]

You're most welcome.

For the benefit of those who may find this in the future and the link might be broken, I'll point out that gas VOLUME, combined with port pressure is the key. Bullet weight has very little to do with it, other than creating a balanced load.

Parashooter has given examples of 110gr and 220gr bullet loads which work fine with the Garand's gas system. One just needs to know how to do it correctly.

The key to gas volume is to stick to around 46-50grs of powder. You then adjust the choice of powder according to the burn rate which matches the bullet weight you are using as well as the port pressure. (Quik Load really helps, since it can tell you estimated residual pressure at any length down the barrel, such as 23" - where the port is in the Garand's barrel.)