Lead Removal Solution

[montana_charlie]

I don't know how many posts and articles I have read that discuss removing lead fouling from barrels. I have also spent hours reading plans for homemade electronic devices, and instructions for commercial ones.

Only when I got a lead fouled barrel, and went through a soak-scrub-patch-inspect cycle that lasted four days, did I start getting more than 'simply curious'.

Now that it's happened to me, I want to know the easiest way to get the lead out...and this may be it.

Read the whole thread, as there are comments which show that some think it's not such a great plan. Then share your thoughts...especially if you are a chemist.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.hunting/browse_thread/thread/fa4bb9e820804cf8/db1779028df445db?lnk=st&q=lead+out+solution&rnum=3#db1779028df445db
CM

[arkypete]

Montana
You didn't mention if this was a rifle or a handgun.
If it's a handgun I've always used I can never think of the name, a device that uses brass wire screen and expandable jags and pulled from the breech to the muzzle, using the T-handle supplied.
Hoppes makes a knock off.
The trick is finding cast bullets that fit the firearm, lapping the barrel and peace and joy will visit your world.
Jim

[Glen]

OK, I am a chemist, so I'll offer a few comments.

Yes, this mixture will remove lead deposits after soaking for several hours. It will not hurt stainless steel, and probably won't hurt bluing (but it may bleach wood finishes). You will need to follow this treatment with a water displacing solvent and then oil to prevent rusting. Avoid using this cleaning solution after shooting black powder as the sulfate residues left behind will pit the steel quickly.

The explosion hazards mentioned in the thread you listed do not apply to this dilute solution.

All in all, while it avoids the hard scrubbing to remove the lead, it still involves a fair number of steps and time.

If you want a fast method for getting rid of leading, why not just shoot a few jacketed bullet through the barrel? Or a few GC loads? Both will clean out the vast majority of the leading, leaving behind only a small amount that is easily cleaned out.

The fastest and simplest way to clean out leading at home is bronze wool. Wrap a wet patch around your bronze bore brush, and then wrap a pinch of fine bronze wool (available at the big hardware stores) around the patch. This will cut through lead deposits like a hot knife through butter and will clean out even a badly leaded barrel in just a few strokes. A $3 investment will get you enough bronze wool to last a lifetime.

arkypete -- I believe the name you're looking for is the Lewis lead remover

[versifier]

Arkypete,
You are describing the Lewis Tool, which I read recently is now being made for rifles, too. Personally, I really like Rigg #44 as I have had great luck with it.

Montana_charlie,
I believe that a slightly more concentrated version of this is what Rigg contains, but the Rigg product is not watery, but a gel more in consistancy like a medium weight oil. It stays where you put it and doesn't run all over the place.
I flatly refuse to believe that the homemade solution "ate a gun barrel". Anybody with some college chemistry would realize the person who said it had his head in a good spot to view last night's dinner. :-D I'm not sure how it might affect a wood stock, but I'm careful with my solvents, and if the barrel is dirty enough to need my homemade FoulOut rig (which also uses a 50/50 solution of household ammonia and white vinegar), I remove the action from the stock anyway.
No matter how you tackle it lead fouling can be a real PITA. The best prevention is to watch when you are testing for the groups to begin to open an unexpectedly large amount and stop shooting then and there. Some have said good things about shooting a few jacketed rounds through the barrel at this point, or some milder gas checked boolits, but this I have not tried myself.

Thank you Glen. You posted while I was writing mine. It's been over 30 years since my last chem class, but some of it is still floating around in there. The bronze wool is great stuff, I usually use it for removing light surface rust from blued surfaces. I should try some next time I try to push a boolit too hard.

[felix]

Yeah, the peroxide-vinegar solution is for known barrels only. Lots of 416 steel manufacturers slide in some "lube" materials into the steal, like Pb and/or S, when there is not enough there in impurity form. 4140 steels might be suspect as well. Best to find a spot on the barrel that cannot be seen and let the solution remain there until evaporated and then do a looksee with a microscope to see if any pits are there after washing down the area. ... felix

[robertbank]

Chor Boy 100% copper pads wrapped around an old copper wire brush gets lead out in about three to four strokes. Not at all sure what could be easier than that nor faster. I haven't used my Lewis Lead remover since going to this method.

Take Care

Bob

[montana_charlie]

If you want a fast method for getting rid of leading, why not just shoot a few jacketed bullet through the barrel? Or a few GC loads?
Thanks for the suggestion, but it's not an option I care to investigate for my .45-90. The method seems to suggest that there would still be some remaining lead to remove - which is now 'ironed into the pores of the steel' by the jacketed bullets...and you have the additional job of removing the copper fouling.

Why remove the copper?

It is said by the 'bell ewes' of BPCR (so we in the flock must mutely comply) that any barrel whose owner was so inconsiderate as to have fired copper objects through it must have all traces of that metal removed before said barrel can be expected to perform at it's highest potential with lead bullets.
(It may not be 'life with no parole', but how's THAT for a long sentence?)

OK, I am a chemist, so I'll offer a few comments.

Avoid using this cleaning solution after shooting black powder as the sulfate residues left behind will pit the steel quickly.
OK...that's a comment that gets my attention...especially when it comes from a chemist.

All of the electronic lead removers instruct you to thoroughly clean and degrease a barrel before using the device on it.
Would not the same caution work with this solution, in the case of a barrel containing black powder residue?
CM

[felix]

High antimony, low tin boolits shot at a medium speed or better will shine a barrel very well in time. Slow moving boolits without gaschecks, i.e., WW metal, will take out lead (not copper) fairly quickly. I use the latter technique every outing to chase out a barrel after shooting high speed boolits. Works great. Sometimes it takes up to 10 chasers to make the barrel clean enough to put away. ... felix

[tomf52]

+1 on what Robertbank said. After using the ChorBoy method I wouldn't even think of any other approach.

[arkypete]

A process I've been meaning to test with a leaded barrel.
Letting Kroil oil sit barrel over night and see ifthis loosens the fouling.
Any experience or thoughts on this?
Jim

[montana_charlie]

Kroil...
Any experience or thoughts on this?This recent leading problem of mine appeared after firing grooveless bullets, which apparently didn't carry enough lube to do the job...maybe. The cause is immaterial to this discussion, which explores 'how to get it out' rather than 'how did it get in'.

When I found out how much trouble I was in, Kroil was the first thing I went to because I always use it when cleaning the bore.
When the normal cleaning process wasn't sufficient, I swabbed the bore and let it sit overnight.

The next day, I seemed to be in the same situation, so another night of Kroil-soak was tried...with the same result. I could run patches until one came out clean. Then run a Kroil-soaked patch through and they would come out black, again. There was still something in there making patches come out full of crud.

(I am assuming this stuff was from lead fouling. If it was powder fouling, I need to seriously revamp my cleaning procedure.)

Over the next two days, I used Nitro Solvent from Gunslick as well as some other substances. All attempts included vigorous scrubbing with a bronze brush.
On the last night of this program I used my last quarter-ounce of original (1960's vintage) Hoppes #9 Nitro...letting it soak all night. Using clean patches, and reapplying the Hoppes-soaked patch in between, the barrel finally came out clean.

Maybe Kroil would have done it (with enough patience on my part) but it didn't work as quickly as I thought it would.

Being fresh out of the 'real' Hoppes, it's going to be Kroil...or something like 'peracetic acid...if it ever happens again.
CM

[arkypete]

Montana

Well darn, there goes another million dollar idea.
I've tried the 'Lewis Lead Remover' and I've used the copper 'Choreboy' The 'Lewis' appeared to give more dramatic results in cleaning, since I could see long slivers of lead on the copper wire screening.
About once a decade I forget and shoot some of the Speer swaged lead slugs down my model 25 S&W, with spectacular leading. Or I seek out the same result with several of the Speer 158 swaged bullets.
Now when someone gives me commercial swaged lead bullets I clean and remove lube, and run them through the Corbin and make Basegard bullets out of them and there is no leading.
Jim

[robertbank]

Using the Chor Boy method the lead comes out as dust like particles. Place a page of white paper on the floor if you are cleaning a rifle or on your bench if a handgun and you will see the lead come out. The Chor Boy breaks up the lead while the Lewis traps in in it's screen. After running your chor boy up and down a half dozen times take a clean cloth and run it down your bore - I apply Hoppes #9 to get at the caked on powder fowling and my barrels are clean, void of lead.

Seems to me to be the easiest method of removal. All this chemical stuff looks to me like a lot of work for very little gain.

Take Care

Bob

[Pat I.]

I don't think you'll find a better or easier way to remove leading than wrapping a piece of one of the Lead Wipe clothes around a brush a couple of calibers under what you're cleaning until it's a snug fit in the bore and pushing it through a time or two. I've used it for years on different guns checking the results with a bore scope and the barrel's are clean and lead free every time.

As long as you seal the brush/cloth in something to keep the air out it will last for a long time no matter how dirty black it looks. You'll know it's finished up when it feels dry.

[robertbank]

Used one of those and it worked great. Can't get them up here now. Do you know what the chemical is that is in them?

Take Care

Bob

[Pat I.]

Don't have the faintest idea what chemical or combo of chemicals are used but as long as it works and doesn't rot my barrels off, which it doesn't seem to do, I'll keep using it.

Can' you even order them from one of the US gun supply houses?

[Greg]

I’ve used the Lewis Lead Remover for 25-30 years. I bought my first 357 in the late fall of 1976, and learned the hard way about leaded barrels.

This past summer I tried new to me ‘1 Step Gun Cleaner’ from Pro-Shot Products. Squirt down the bore and cylinder; leave soak for a few minutes; some strokes with a wet bronze brush, a few wet patches and it’s clean. Frame and barrel usually coated with crud...a good dousing and a few minutes with a nylon or brass tooth-brush type dealie and no more crud or discoloration.

Factory match wad-cutters are filthy shooting, leave your hands covered in suet and smuck. The gun covered in greasy carbon fouling. Cleans right up with this stuff from Pro-Shot.

I was impressed with it. Don’t know what’s in it but it reminds me of some floor-wax strippers. I liked it.

[robertbank]

Jeez being a Canuck ain't easy when your head is empty and frozen! Do you have a name for the product and I'll order some from Graf on my next order?

Take Care

Bob

[joeb33050]

I know you've all been waiting for this, so here goes.
I know nothing about revolvers, clean the lead out of mine with a brass brush
In rifles, the first step is to not lead the barrel. Use a bigger bullet. (Works in revolvers too, I'm told)
I have never got the lead out of a rifle barrel with a brass brush.
Really heavy lead will come out with an undersize brush and 000 steel wool. Four ought just shines the lead.
Lead comes out with a TIGHT Lead-Away patch from Kleen Bore.
Lead comes out with a TIGHT patch and Kroil. The patch has to be tight enough that it squeaks as it goes through the barrel. I don't need to soak the Kroil in.
BUT!!!!!
Shoot lead after cleaning with Kroil, and the barrel will lead, at least mine do. I found this out the VERY hard way. It's too clean. After cleaning with Kroil I oil the bore and shoot the first bullet with grease on the nose.
These work for me, so I've never had to get one of those electric things-I'd probably shock myself anyhow.
joe brennan

[arkypete]

Greg
Mix youself up a batch, 1 gal. of Ed's Red. When I'm shooting bunchs of rounds I'll take the bucket with me and drop the piece in muzzel first. Does a fair job of cleaning up the gunk, doesn't touch leading, while you continue shooting. I can get three S&W 'N' frames and one Colt Python in the bucket at the same time.
Wipe them down, swamp out the barrel and cyclinder and you're ready to shoot again.
Jim

[JudgeBAC]

I have had great success with Montanna Extreme Cowboy Blend with lead bullets. Anything left can be removed with a Lewis Lead remover if the deposits are heavy. I'm not sure what is in this stuff but it really works.

[Pat I.]

RB,
There's a few companies that have their names on the cloth. Outers and Birchwood Casey are two that come to mind right away along with Kleen Bore that's been mentioned. I'm sure they're all the same thing with different names. Just look for Lead Wipe somewhere in the name and you'll have the right stuff.

[utk]

Used one of those and it worked great. Can't get them up here now. Do you know what the chemical is that is in them?

Take Care

Bob

Go to this site, about halfway down the page:

http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm

500 gr - 400 grit or finer aluminum oxide powder
450 gr - kerosene or #2 fuel oil
4 gr - lemon oil
5 gr - ammonium chloride

[robertbank]

Pat 1 - thank you for response I am on it.

utk - Thank you for the reference. I am going to suggest to Gun Master he sticky the formula.

Take Care

Bob

[Gunload Master]

If someone wants to create a new thread with that formula being the first post, I will stick it.

[dbldblu]

The Chore boy stuff works fairly well. It does not get into the very corner of the rifling, IMO. Clamp a piece of aluminum in a vise. Use a hand file on this piece until you have a pinch of aluminum filings. Soak a patch with your favorite solvent. Sprinkle the filings onto the patch and run through the bore. This will remove lead right into the corner of the rifling. It will not scratch the barrel. I posted this on some forum before and some guy said it would create aluminum oxide and scratch the barrel. I don't believe that is true, but if someone is worried about it, use brass filings instead. Brass works just as well.

[lovedogs]

The lead removal that's worked best for me have been the Chore Boy, the Lewis Lead Remover, and the Foul-Out. All work well. If you'll use the right alloy sized properly, and the right lube you should avoid leading. I was surprised at how well Larsen's 50/50 lube works. Since using it I've never had any lead in my barrels. Of course all other things are done right and my barrels are all broken in properly and are nice and smooth.

[Tenbender]

Interesting !

[ohiooneshot]

Hello all, brand new here. Found this site while looking for a solution to change lead into a soluble liquid that can be rinsed out. So far every post on here deals with leaded barrels. What if you were faced with the problem of getting lead out of something that isn't able to be dis assembled and isn't able to be scrubbed with a brush....like a sealed suppressor? Any help from anyone would be truly appreciated.

[Nose Dive]

Gents.... good postings! Great reading! So, I thought I would throw in one last methodology. This is my 'old way'...back when....

When I was younger and was working in petrochemical plants and oil refineries all over this planet, I had access to mercury. Yep, the sliver stuff of years ago put into thermometers. We used a great deal of it in manual manometers to gage pressure in storage tanks. We no longer do this as, well, if the glass gage gets broken... you have contaminated the tank dike area.

But, being trained in is use, transportation, storage and DISPOSAL, I have cleaned some friends barrels, pistol and rifle, with mercury. Now be fore warned and told, it is now a 'hazardous material' and is controlled by Uncle Sam's EPA. So, don't expect to run to Walmart and pick up a liter.

I had a friend with a very nice, very fouled, Shutzten long rifle. I believe it was a 45-90 calibre. After a bit of scrubbing and little reverse 'electro-plating'... I plugged and filled the barrel with the mercury. It forms an amalgam with the lead in the barrel. This sat for a few days as we were busy and later, we unplugged the barrel and captured the eluent and sat it aside for disposal by the company. I think they sent it to a reclaimer who cleaned it up somehow and sold it right back to us. Anyway, a bit more scrubbing with bronze wire mesh, some Hoppes and Ed's Red, we had us a clean barrel. Patches came out white and slick and could again see original rifling. He had a reamer of the same calibre of the rifle and he slipped it through the barrel a few times, well lubed, and didn't see any black nasty residue. So, we were confident we had done our part the the mercury had done it's job.

So, there is another way to remove lead. And once again, MERCURY is hazardous and if you injest any, and you are of child bearing age, you kids can come out looking like salamanders. This is way it is on the EPA CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE LIST.

I no longer fool with mercury, nor asbestos, nor PCB's. "In the old days", these were common materials in 'our' work place. And, in the meantime, we learned more about these hazardous items and either removed them or learned how to safely handle them.

And really, with all the above 'easy to accomplish' and safe methodologies.....well.....'why bother'?

Nose Dive

Cheap, Fast, Good. Kindly pick two.


SAFETY NOTICE
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As with the use of any chemicals, wash your hands thoroughly after using. Note that many of the formulas suggested here will remove skin oils, so you may want to consider using some kind of skin lotion after washing your hands.
Wear eye protection when using any of the solutions below.
http://hazard.com/msds/index.php
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I strongly suggest that you download, read, and heed them!