50-110WCF project.

[Muskwa]

Hello Everybody,

I am new to this forum - you guys seem to be a good bunch.
I've got a project on the go, having a 50-110WCF built on a Browning 71. Barrel is here, gun is ready, but I need some advice. Starline makes cases and I have some of them, but a couple of hundred new 348Win cases are also available.

Has anybody formed 50-110 from 348 cases, how many dies are needed?
Recommendations on make of case forming dies ( could you make your own?)?
Anybody got experince with CH reloading dies?

Muskwa

[Bent Ramrod]

Muskwa,

Welcome to the Forum. I have no experience of the .50-110 myself, but have had a fair number of sets of CH-4D dies. They are a little less polished on the outside than other commercial dies, but the insides are what counts.

In all cases, I have either been very satisfied with the operations done and the surface finishes left on the cases by the CH-4D dies, or, in one case, have called the number (I think the guy's name is Dave), explained the problem, sent in the dies and promptly got it made right.

I don't think the original configuration of these dies was a mistake on their part, either. It's just that these antique chamberings and the replica (or reformed) cartridge cases make the individual loading situation a law unto itself.

These remarks do not apply to the original C-H dies from the '60's (chromed on the outside and supplied in the red and silver cardboard boxes). Allegedly these were as good as anything else until the founder of the company, Charles Heckman, died in a car crash. Then they could be pretty bad. I had a set once in .32-20 which expanded the case off-center and faithfully reproduced the crimp with the second die, also off-center.

Good luck on your 50 caliber project. I would think only the loading set would be needed, no special dies. I've heard you just have to fireform the .348 cases cylindrical, trim and use. They are allegedly a little short, but reportedly work OK.

[ARKANSAS PACKRAT]

I Have No 50 Experience, But Have Made 43 Span. From 348, Suggest You Anneal The Neck And Shoulder Area Well. I Had Some Spectacular Splits (3/4 Case Length) Until I Did, That's A Lot Of Stretch!!! Best Of Luck With The 50!
Nick

[Bullshop]

I dont think your gona get 2.4" without some real serious swaging, thats why they only went 2.2" for the 50 AK. Thats about all you can get by fireforming after squaring up. I cut my chamber to 2.1" to make it easier. Another thing if your gona shoot jackets at .510" the Star brass will work better because its thicker at the mouth. The reformed 348 will work good with cast sized .512" or over. Hope you didnt get the 50/110 express twist as the origonal's. It will only handle about a 300gn boolit. I went with 1/22" and it will handle anything. I even tried some 700gn and they shot good but that origonal cresent but, OH MAN dont it hurt!!!
BIC/BS

[Muskwa]

Thanks for the information! I will be getting CH dies and Starline brass.
It is difficult to find a gunsmith in Canada with the experience needed to do this conversion - it supposedly takes quite a bit of tinkering to get the long & fat 50-110 cartridges feeding through the model 71 (1886) action. I talked to Harry McGowen a few years ago about the conversions he did on the big levers - very interesting.
I got my own chamber reamer from Pacific Tool & Gauge and the .512 barrel with a 1-18' twist is from a friend of mine. I am considering a full length magazine tube and a barrel lenght of 20-22". Possibly, I might put a muzzle brake on (but they are ugly), Limbsaver recoil pad, and a Lyman 66 peep sight. Weight 9-10lbs.

Dan/Bullshop. I will be contacting you later about more details on your custom cast bullets. I cast my own 44 and 45/70 bullets but I have no plans to cast for the 50-110 as of now.

Muskwa

[JFE]

Muskwa,

as Bullshop mentioned you cant easily get to the 50/110 length required from a 348 Win case - its too short. With 50/110 brass available from Starline and Bertram there is no need to form from 348 Win.

As you mentioned this is a tricky conversion and getting the big case to feed through a 71 or 86 action is not for your average gun plumber. I am having trouble finding a good smith in Oz for the same project.

OAL and bullet profile for feeding into and then through the mag tube. Some smiths use put a bulge in the tube mag like in Marlin 1895's, others dont and seem to get away without needing to resort to this. OAL achieveable varies with the smith, but I have heard of 2.75" to 2.84" in various conversions. The original 50/110 ammo was loaded with short bullets and profile was more rounded, so you will need to check bullet profile for feeding.

Attachment of tube mag is important too. Remember if you have 4 cartridges in a tube mag with heavy bullets, this will act like a slide hammer and the tube mag will tear itself off if it is not properly attached. A full length mag only compounds this problem.

This cartridge is a natural for cast but there are some jacketed bullets available too. Aside from Barnes, Woodleigh has recently introduced a big flat nose for use in modern 50/110 and 50AK rifles. I think it is around 500gr.

Good luck with the project and keep us posted.

Joe

[powderburnerr]

I have some of both cases and the 348 was remfged by buffalo arms . there is a lot of work involved to do it .it is a whole reform process the way BA does it....Dean

[Mike8623]

If you've ever done any gun work, I don't think the conversion is that hard. I did one last summer and it shoots and feeds just fine.............I also converted an old broken 1886 tang from regular trigger to single set trigger and it works just fine. You just need to brush up on all it takes and what needs to be done for the conversion. I read a lot and asked a lot of questions and just went slow...........In the whole process I found it hardest to get the magazine tube to stay put with heavy loads. With the trigger I found it was hard to get the kickoff spring the right tension........so that the once released the kickoff would push the sear out of the hammer notch..........I had to make the pins and springs cause I couldn't find any........it was trial and error and looking at the pictures real hard for the right configuration. I've got two more barrels and am in the process of doing two more rifles from the gun parts I have.

Someone mentioned barrel twist above.........I'm confused on this.......if you look at and plug in the numbers on the Greenhill formula then it would seem that the faster you want a bullet to go and the heavier it is...................then it needs a slower twist..................30 on up. It is really hard to find a slow twist 50-110 barrel they all seem to be in the low to mid 20's............so am I getting this all wrong or what...............I'm in a quandry here.

[stubshaft]

The longer the boolit the faster the twist. Low 20's work great for 580gr. slugs from my Alaskan.