Too much of a good thing !

[Ben]

In the 2009 Deer Hunting season
here in AL, I tested a Lyman 31141
HP that Buckshot had HP'd for me.
He designed the pin dia. and length
to my specs. ( which turned out
to be too much of a good thing ).

The deer that I shot in 2009 had a
fairly large entrance hole telling
me that the bullet began expanding
upon impact , once inside the
bullet exploded leaving 11 exit
holes out of the animal. The deer
only went about 10 yards and was
dead by the time I got to it.

Sounds good, BUT.....that isn't
what I want from one of my
hunting bullets. So....today
I used the same HP pin, but
shortened it in hopes that I'll
still get some expansion on the
nose of the bullet, but keep the
other 3/4 of the bullet in tact
to " plow on through " the animal
and give me one good exit hole.

Here are photos of the bullet's
performance in the 2009 hunt :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=44927

Here is a photo of the modified bullet that I
cast today , I think I'm going to like it better.
( I took a file and cut through the nose of
the bullet, .....not very neat, but I think you
get the idea of what is happening)

In the orig. ( the bullet on the left in the photo )
, you can see that the HP cavity went all
the way to the 1st drive band . It turns out
that about 50% of the bullet's length was
occupied by the HP cavity. For me, this
created a bullet that was far too explosive .
Might be just fine for shooting varmints, but
for white tail deer, I believe I'll like the bullet
on the right better. :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/002-1.jpg

[475BH]

If you used a softer alloy it would mushroom instead of breaking up so much.

[Ben]

You're right, but I'm using ACWW's right now. I'll try this style out in the fall and report back to all of you.

Ben

[Blammer]

I think the shallower nose will suit you just fine! Looks good to me!

[excess650]

Its no wonder, you shot a nanny goat!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/31141%20HP/IMG_1683.jpg

Maybe cut the WW with PB and quench? Less antimony should make them less brittle.

[Ben]

Its no wonder, you shot a nanny goat!

WOW ! What a nice thing to say...............

[excess650]

Its no wonder, you shot a nanny goat!

WOW ! What a nice thing to say...............

:groner:I guess I shoulda followed up with a :kidding::bigsmyl2:

I hunt in areas were the deer population has been decimated by the Game Commission's over exuberance to issue doe permits. I've never hunted doe, and can't see myself doing it in the future unless there is some over population issue.

I have property in rural southern Va and haven't pulled the trigger in the 2 seasons I hunted there, and I'm allowed 6 per season! The bucks seem to out number the does considerably, but they need a bit more time to grow.

In central Pa I've taken a lot of bucks.....

[Larry Gibson]

I learned the same lesson many years ago with my own Lyman 311041HP. Subsequent test and experience on deer show that the HP stem shortened to 2/3s the length of the nose, as you have done, along with a softer alloy that gives reliable expansion and weight retension are best. I suggest a softer alloy of WW/lead at 50/50 and AC'd. I find that alloy quite satisfactory with my own 311041HP and numerous othe bullets I HP.

I also suggest cleaning the abrrel after every 5 - 7 shots if velocity is pushed above 1800 fps. I do so with my loads that push 2000 - 2200 fps in several .30 cal rifles. Cleaning keeps the first 5 - 7 shots in 1 -2 moa including the fouling shots. Subsequent shots will enlarge the groups to 3 - 4 moa. I have tested numerous lubes and it is the same with all of them that work to begin with. I size my 311041HPs, use Javelina lube and Hornady GCs.

Larry Gibson

[Ben]

Thanks Larry,

I'll try that.

Ben

[Ben]

:groner:I guess I shoulda followed up with a :kidding::bigsmyl2:

I hunt in areas were the deer population has been decimated by the Game Commission's over exuberance to issue doe permits. I've never hunted doe, and can't see myself doing it in the future unless there is some over population issue.

I have property in rural southern Va and haven't pulled the trigger in the 2 seasons I hunted there, and I'm allowed 6 per season! The bucks seem to out number the does considerably, but they need a bit more time to grow.

In central Pa I've taken a lot of bucks.....

___________________________________

Seems things here in AL are quite different......

Alabama's has a 1.8 million white-tailed deer population — a herd that has increased more than hundredfold in 60 years — is now second largest among U.S. states and teeters out of control.

Law enforcement officials recorded 14,203 collisions between vehicles and animals in the past five years in Alabama, with about 95 percent involving deer, according to the Alabama Department of Public Safety. Each year, the number has increased, the DPS says.

Those accidents produced 1,248 injuries and 14 deaths.

Here is the article in its entirety if you'd like to read it, if we don't shoot some
of these " nanny goats " as you've referenced them, things are just going to get
worse :

http://www.al.com/specialreport/birminghamnews/index.ssf?29-deer1.html

My original post was intended to discuss the merits of hp design and expansion
characteristics,bullet alloy and velocity not about whether or not doe deer should be killed here in my state...........

http://www.westalabamahuntingtrail.com/hunt-seasons-limits.html#DEER

[crabo]

besides, "nanny goats" are good eating.

[crazy mark]

Ben, The last 6 deer I have shot with cast bullets have all dropped almost spot on where I shot them. All were using ACWW and not hollow pointed. The RCBS 35-200 worked very good, the 311332 and 334 were also very good. The other cast bullet was a 311291 with a small bumped FP. All deer were hit in the heart/lung or spine. Only one years ago was killed with a HP and that was the 311332 out of a 1903. Of course none of the BP front stuffers I use are pure lead as I tend to use ACWW for round balls. The minnies and maxies are soft lead with 1-2% WW. I do have a lot of HP'd moulds but never seem to have one in the chamber when a deer shows up or I grab the wrong shell in my pocket.

[Ben]

Mark:

I believe this new design with the shortened HP cavity just may fill the ticket for what I'm looking for here on these white tails.

THANKS,

Ben

[fredj338]

Mark:

I believe this new design with the shortened HP cavity just may fill the ticket for what I'm looking for here on these white tails.

THANKS,

Ben
In looking for the perfect 44mag hunting bullet i palyed w/ a lot of diff HP designs. I settled on the cup point. The deeper HP fragment or over expand @ vel over 1200fps. The cup point expands very nicely w/ enough metal left in the HP nose to support the expansion. Very little fragmentation. I haven't recovered one from any deer yet. Mine was a Dev mold modified to a cup point, weighs 270gr gc & lubed, cast 25-1 alloy.

[Ben]

Yes, .......more isn't always better , is it ?

Ben

[Doby45]

I think excess650 is looking at this more from the side of "Trophy" hunting and not "eating/herd management". I will bust a doe over a buck any day of the week and twice on Sunday. You normally have more tender meat that is not nearly as gamey as a buck of the same age. If you are hunting for trophies then I can see the club aspect of management but in the same token if you do not thin the herd none of the deer will reach a full trophy class due to overpopulation.