.44 Magnum lever loads and leading

[David LaPell]

I have alot of .44 Magnum handloads that I have left around from some of my revolvers, and I will probably end up using them in my Marlin 1894. They consist of a 250 grain cast bullet Lyman #429421 and 10.0 grains of Unique, I am wondering how badly I can expect the barrel to lead with these.

[454PB]

Maybe none......you'll only know by shooting. What is the boolit diameter and alloy?

[TCFAN]

David, like you when I got my 44 marlin I had a lot of 429421 cast and loaded up that I used in my super blackhawk.
I had to shoot them single shot thru the marlin because of being to long.I had most loaded with 9.0 gr. of unique or 22gr of 2400. They leaded very bad. It turned out that the boolits were sized at .429 and my marlin needs .432 to keep from leading.
So I would say if your 94 will feed them and they are sized the correct size then you would be good to go...........Terry

[GH1]

There's more to leading than bullet hardness. Oftentimes a poor fit or mismatched load pressures will cause it. I used to shoot .357 diameter cast bullets in my guns, with the Marlin showing little leading and the Taurus leading quite a bit. I have since switched to .358 diameter and all leading has been eliminated. Sometimes if a pressure is too low the bullet won't obturate properly and the bore won't be sealed, producing leading. I noticed that my loads charged with Bullseye leaded more severly than the one where I used AA#9.
That was with the .357 bullets. The .358's don't lead at all, and I'm using 13.5 gr AA#9, which is pretty stout.
My point is you'll have to play with different combinations until you find a load that works in YOUR guns. Every firearm is a little bit different.
GH1

[Catshooter]

David,

In this game Fit is King, Hardness it court jester. You can either slug your bores and go from there, or just shoot some and see.

Rule of thumb is at least .001 over bore size, nothing wrong with .002 or 3 over. But lke GH1 says, each weapon is a rule onto itself. Case in point, I have a .38-55 with a .3795 bore. My first (at the time only) mould produced boolits at .3790 so they really shouldn't have worked. They do though, and wonderfully. In testing I shot an inch and a half group at 150 yards (with iron sights) and I would only clean the gun once a year, after 5 to 600 rounds. Takes four passes with a dry patch to clean it, too.

Both of my Smith Shorty 45s requie at least .001 over bore size or bad bad leading. And this is at half or less pressure of the .38-55, go figure.

If you do get leading, go to the store an buy a pack of "Chore Boy" pot scrubber pads. Cut it up and wrap two or three strands around a bore brush. That will take out the lead like nothing else, quick and easy.


Cat

[reloader28]

I'm lucky with my 44 rifle. It'll shoot pretty much everything I put thru it with no lead in the barrel. My pistol is another story.
So I work up my pistol loads then shoot them thru the rifle with no worries whatsoever.

[GabbyM]

As far as powder charge goes 10gr of Unique should work. Heavy charges of WW296 and such can push bullets faster than plain based lead likes to see. Not all Marlins have oversized bores. Most people still just shoot .430” bullets in them.

In the Lyman book 10.0gr of Unique under a 240gr rnfp shows 1332 fps from a 20” rifle.

[PacMan]

I loaded and shot a lot of 429421 thur my Marlin until my brother beat me out of it.I beagled the mold to get to .431 and loaded over a healthy does of Lil Gun.No leading and very good accuracy.Using WDWW and LBT Blue Soft.
I switched to thr RD 265gr for the larger nose with the same results although i seat out past the crimp grove and crimp on the 2nd drive band(i load these for my brother)they function perfectly.
Dwight

[Char-Gar]

I have a Marlin 44 Mag carbine. As other have stated, as it comes from the factory, it only works within a certain overall cartridge length. It would not feed the Keith bullet. This however is not a fatal flaw as the carrier can be modified easy to allow the longer rounds to feed like glass.

The Marlin does require a bullet of .431 or better to do it's best work.

I have fired several hundred loads with the Keith PM bullet sized .432 and 10/Unique. Accuracy was lackluster at about 4" (50 yards). Leading was not an issue.

I tried the GC 429244 with no better results. Groups still around 4" at 50 yards.

However, when I boosted the powder charge and there by the velocity to full snot magnum, the groups tightened up a bunch to 2" at the same distance. Big improvment.

I then tried an old RCBS design that cast a GC 230 grains SWC over the original charge of 10/Unique and groups were a consistent 1.5" as 50 yards. This is a easy, low recoil load that would kill a deer with ease and is also the most best load I have found in my old Ruger 3 screw SBH.

The conclusions I come away from this are;

1. Gas check bullets do best if it is accuracy you are after.
2. With the slow twist of the Marlin barrel, you need to get the bullet speed up to a certain point to stabilize the bullets. You can do this by increasing powder or decreasing bullet weight.

The Marlin 44 Mag carbine with a properly modified carrier makes a great rifles for deer and such. Mine wears an old steel Redfield 102 receiver sight, that is set and Lock-Tighted for the RCBS 130/10/Unique load.

[northmn]

One product I swear bu that some swear at is the Lee Liquid Alox. I do not seem to see any leading when using a couple of coats of that.

DP

[Bret4207]

Dave, try it and see. Even if you do get some leading a little 4.0 steel wool and solvent removes it quickly.

[NHlever]

The Lyman 429244 over a heavy charge of H-110 is my go to hunting load in both my Winchester 94 Trails End, and my Marlin 1894. It shoots very well out of both. I am just starting to work with it in my Super Blackhawks, and Flattop .44 Special, so don't have much advice to forward there. It needs to be sized as large as possible (.432 die cleans up most of the surface) for both my carbines. The Marlin is fairly new to me so I need to do some side by side shooting of the various boolits I have with it. Oh darn, another trip to the range! :D :D

[EDK]

Good advice from all of the guys.

I have used various 50/50 ALOX lubes for years...used to buy the bulk deal at GAR in New Jersey...they've been gone awhile. Now I get it from LARS. I've seldom had leading problems with any level of loads in my 357s or 44s with 50/50.

I decided to try B-A-C over the winter...unfortunately a lot more cold weather than usual here around Saint Louie...and a slightly HARDER alloy for higher velocity also. I got leading in a number of Original Size VAQUEROS in 44, but not in the 357s. Weather is better..80 today!...and I'm back to straight wheel weights and 50/50...all is well.

I've found that the RANCH DOG TLC 432 265 lubed per RD's tutorial will REMOVE lead from the pistol barrels. Not sure if it is the gas check or the LLA, but it works for me. I'm shooting 5 or 6 per VAQUERO after shooting the loads that leaded so badly.

I've had a 44 MARLIN of one variation or another for almost 40 years. They ain't bench rifles, but they took out a lot of coyotes/feral dogs messing with my cattle 'way back when. The 24 inch Cowboy rifle is my favorite of all of them.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[W.R.Buchanan]

Both of my Marlin .44's shoot "fairly" well. I can get 3" at 50yds with just about any combination. Bullets must be .432, and if you want more accuracy you have to push them harder. The problem is the loose 1-38 twist barrels.

Everybody in the industry is trying to get Marlin to tighten up these barrels. The current excuse is that the Cowboy guys will lead the barrels up and then run a factory round thru and blow the gun up. Phooey.

With barrels of 1-20" twist and .430 grooves they would have very accurate guns, that would also stabilize 300+gr boolits. Also the .45LC guns have a 1-20 twist barrel, and you can make the .45LC as hot as .44 mags.

Brian Pearce of Handloader Magazine has a Marlin carbine he had reworked and rebarreled with a 1-16 twist .430 barrel. His gun will stabilize 335 gr bullets and he showed groups of 3/4" at 75 yards in the article.

This is more like what we want.

My carbine has a Micro groove barrel and it will only shoot about 3-5 cast bullets before it starts throwing lead all over. I bought the thing specifically to convert to a take down with a 1-20 twist barrel, similar to the one I spoke of above. Also by moving the rear step on the cartridge lifter back about .125 the gun will swallow rounds loaded with much bigger boolits, and an OAL of 1.725.

Being able to shoot these longer bullets makes this gun a completely different animal. A .44 mag carbine is no slouch when it comes to power, and any pistol load you run thru it will be leaving at 400-700 fps faster than from the pistol. Add 300+ gr bullets that will go clean thru most NA game animals from a pistol, and you've got a real powerful little Boolit Launcher.

Garrett Ammo has 335 gr "hammerhead" loads which run at about 1600FPS thru a Carbine. That 's firmly into .45-70 ballistics.

Decelerator installation required for multiple shots!

This is by far my favorite round and I have been shooting them since 1978. My most notable accomplishment with the .44 is hitting a ground squirrel at 125 yards from my M29 with a boolit I made and loaded myself. Several people watched in amazement! It was hard to get my head into the car to drive home.

Here is a pic of some of the .44 Cal Boolits I regularly shoot. From Left, Lyman 429244 255gr SWCGC (I want a Lyman bullet like this but longer 300+gr) 240 gr Lee SWCGC, Magma 44-190SWC, and a 44-200 X-treme plated, which works real well at slow speeds for plinking loads. No leading at all. $57/500. All the rest are cast from WW.

The 429244 is a little long in the nose and loaded OAL is about 1.665 but they still feed in the Marlins, but just barely.

I have also had really good results with a Beartooth (LBT) 250gr WFNGC. I don't have that mould, I just bought some. It would be a good mould to have, as it feeds flawlessly after you chamfer the chamber mouth of your rifle. OAL is 1.595 with a good crimp.


That's another point, I f you put about a .040 chamfer on the chamber mouth of your rifles those stepped boolits will feed in just fine. With the sharp edge they come with sometimes the new cartridge will get hung up on the mouth of the chamber. Same with any bullet with a large Meplat.


Randy