1874 Pedersoli 45-90 load advice

[Wil]

First post here guys, so Howdy!

I started out several years ago with this Pedersoli and loaded nothing but BP. It was fun, but my first love is hunting, not silhouettes or paper punching.

I am looking for some good smokeless info and some clarifications. Blackpowder is great, but dirty and I need something easier to use in the field. Really not interested in being told what a blasphemer I am to go smokeless, but I really do appreciate the BP position.

Been doing some research and searching the web for a while now, including the archives here. Forgive me if I've missed some. Lots of good information so thank you in advance.

Questions:
• I have the Lyman book with their smokeless recommendations. It’s a great start. Any other publications geared towards help for the 2.4 and smokeless?
• I will be using a 530/535gr Pedersoli / Trenk bullet design mold. Since velocities will be consistent with BP, is the standard BP type lube and 1:20 lead good to go? Suggestions?
• 5744 seems to be the powder of choice. These are all reduced loads, so…
1) I’ve never used fillers (kapok, etc) Are those used by volume or weight? What else do I need to know?
2) May I use a .030 fiber wad to keep the powder back? Or would the resulting air pocket be considered dangerous? My thought is that the resulting air space is the same, regardless of the powder position.
3) I really feel more comfortable keeping the powder in place by some sort of method. A lot of my hunting shooting will be in a downward position. I’m a tree rat.

Thanks and I sincerely look forward to your input.
Wil

[NickSS]

Well I have some experience loading the 45 2.4" case with smokeless powder so I will tell you what I know. I loaded for a Winchester 86 (jap made one) that I had for a few years. I used only 5744 powder as that has become my powder of choice for large BP cartridge smokless loads. I loaded 400 gr bullets with 29 gr of 5744 with no wads or filler. This load in my winchester shot groups of around 1.5 inches at 100 yards which is about as good and I can shoot with a tang sight and bead on post front sight. I never tried the heavier bullets as I figured the 400 gr one was more than enough for what I was using it for. However, I have loaded lots of 45-70 with heavyer bullets and 27 gr of 5744 with excellent results. By the .way I used my BP lube, 30-1 alloy and no wads/filler with all of these loads. 5744 is not position sensitive and works for me

[Wil]

Interesting. 5744 is not position sensitive...cool.

Are you using magnum primers to ensure complete ignition?

I was comparing loads in the Lyman book between 45/70, 45/90, and 45/110 for 5744 and like weight bullets. It just doesn't seem that the powder weight and velocities match up between the calibers...

Thanks for the info Nick.

Wil

[montana_charlie]

First post here guys, so Howdy!
Really not interested in being told what a blasphemer I am to go smokeless,
Howdy, yourself...
You picked the right forum for your question, so nobody should give you any grief for your propellant choice.

• I will be using a 530/535gr Pedersoli / Trenk bullet design mold.
Where did you get your mould?
CM

[RangerRick1955]

Being in the same boat as Wil, I am going to be using AA5744 in my upcoming Shiloh Sharps #1 in 45-70 except with a 540 grain PP RCBS bullet. All is good to go just waiting on my shootin iron. Looking to use 24-26 grains in a Federal case and w/w primers. My M die should do very nicely, will keep all in the loop except I have several feet of snow to go before I can get to the range!
Cheers,
Rick

[peerlesscowboy]

I'm loading .45-90 with smokeless for a BP equiv load, Lyman 457125CV Ly#2 alloy sized (459) weighs 515 gr. Remington 9 1/2 primer 27 grains IMR4198 topped with 3.1cc cornmeal filler. Average velocity from my Winchester (Miroku) 1885 highwall "creedmore" is 1296 fps.
I measure the cornmeal filler with those little LEE plastic powder dippers, come in a set of 15 or so of varying sizes marked in cc's. With this load the seated bullet compresses the cornmeal so there's no airspace and everything stays in place.

I definetly would not use a fiber wad to hold the powder in place and leave an airspace between the wad and the bullet base! With that set-up the wad becomes the projectile and the bullet becomes a bore obstruction.......with predictable results.

John C. Saubak

[MGySgt]

I have been loading the 45/90 in an IAB and Pedersole Quigley for a few years.

I load a 430 MM sized to 461, with 3031, dacron filler - for 1470 FPS out of the 28 in IAB,

It consitantly shoots MOA or better with a Soule Globe front sight with a Circle in it.

Dacron - use as filler - don't compres it more then about 1/2 of the bullet seating depth.

My IAB has taken elk. with the custom MM 430gr FP. It is a hoot to shoot and hunt with!

[Wil]

CM,

Howdy, yourself...
You picked the right forum for your question, so nobody should give you any grief for your propellant choice.

Where did you get your mould?

CM,

I got my mold from Victory Molds a number of years back. Never got a chance to cast with it, but its a work of art compared to the Lyman molds. It was supposed to be a collaboration between Pedersolis' Dick Trenk and Victory and was a limited run. I think Victory has been sold (?) and Mr Trenk has passed on.

Anyway, I'm back full circle to the Sharps looking to go smokeless this go-round.

Wil

[Wil]

I'm loading .45-90 with smokeless for a BP equiv load, Lyman 457125CV Ly#2 alloy sized (459) weighs 515 gr. Remington 9 1/2 primer 27 grains IMR4198 topped with 3.1cc cornmeal filler. Average velocity from my Winchester (Miroku) 1885 highwall "creedmore" is 1296 fps.
I measure the cornmeal filler with those little LEE plastic powder dippers, come in a set of 15 or so of varying sizes marked in cc's. With this load the seated bullet compresses the cornmeal so there's no airspace and everything stays in place.

I definetly would not use a fiber wad to hold the powder in place and leave an airspace between the wad and the bullet base! With that set-up the wad becomes the projectile and the bullet becomes a bore obstruction.......with predictable results.

John C. Saubak

I like your cornmeal approach. I take it that the exact amount is not critical other than to keep the powder snug in place, right? No compression. correct? I think I have a set of those dippers around somewhere...

Thanks, Wil

[peerlesscowboy]

I like your cornmeal approach. I take it that the exact amount is not critical other than to keep the powder snug in place, right? No compression. correct? I think I have a set of those dippers around somewhere...

Thanks, Wil
The exact amount is not real critical (as in no need to bother weighing it), but the little dipper makes it easy to measure it by volume. Experiment a little to find out which dipper gives you just the right amount of compression (yes, I do want the cornmeal compressed). You can feel it when you seat the bullet if you try to use too much, if you reach that point just back off to the next smaller dipper. My theory (FWIW) is that if you don't compress the cornmeal it'd mix with the powder maybe for inconsistent results? A little compression keeps the powder and the cornmeal separated and in their place. Prob'ly about 3/16" of compression is about right. You'll want to use a separate funnel with a bigger than normal hole in it to funnel the cornmeal into the case.

John C. Saubak

[Doc Highwall]

I agree with AA5744 being the first choice for duplicating black-powder velocities.
But I would look at a bullet with a wider meplat for hunting like Lyman's 457193 or 457643.

[montana_charlie]

CM,

I got my mold from Victory Molds a number of years back. Never got a chance to cast with it, but its a work of art compared to the Lyman molds. It was supposed to be a collaboration between Pedersolis' Dick Trenk and Victory and was a limited run. I think Victory has been sold (?) and Mr Trenk has passed on.
Ah! I also have a PGT mould from Victory, perhaps the last to leave that shop before it closed.
PGT stands for Pedersoli - Gunn - Trenk as the collaboration also included Dr. Dick Gunn who did the actual designing. Pedersoli paid the bills, and Dick Trenk managed to program. Dr. Gunn has passed on as well...

I don't know how they hooked up with Steve Fotou and his Victory Molds shop, but he sure was an artist.

CM

[Wil]

I agree with AA5744 being the first choice for duplicating black-powder velocities.
But I would look at a bullet with a wider meplat for hunting like Lyman's 457193 or 457643.

Yep, I can definitely use a bullet better designed for hunting, but this is what I have for now, and I've been itching to try my Victory mold.

Back when I was using BP, I had taken quite a few deer and feral pigs with the Lyman Postell bullet design at 535 gr. These heavy bullets are freight trains! Very impressive.

I want a buffalo bad.