I Need These Lever Guns...

[bowfin]

I am sure no one in the firearms industry is listening, but here are the lever guns that need to be made in order to make the world a better place:

Savage needs to bite the bullet and bring back the Model 99. No detachable magazines and no safety on the lever (makes for a horrible trigger). Make one with a traditional stock and peep sight, make one with a Monte Carlo stock for those of us who want/need a scope. All the usual calibers they used to make, plus the .338 Federal. On further reflection, we will need a carbine model and probably a Mannlicher stocked one as well.

Browning needs to pump out about 10,000 Model 71 Winchester reproductions. The guys in Alaska are going into withdrawls. Then they can do some of those cute .32-20s that they have done before.

Winchester needs to make a Model 94 WITHOUT a safety and rebounding hammer. We are people who play with molten lead and pounds of gun powder. That gives us enough leeway to kill ourselves if we are careless and/or stupid. Oh, and they need to have a .25-35 and 7-30 Waters. A few Model 64s would be appreciated as well. They can make a reproduction of the 1895 in 7.62x54R like they made for the Czar's armies.

Marlin can get rid of the rebounding hammer as well, and keep the .41 magnum, .32-20, 25-20, and .218 Bee in the lineup for more than six months without pulling the plug on them.

Ruger can bring back their lever action in .44 Magnum, and also add the .256 Winchester. They really went too far mainstream since the Bill Ruger Sr. passed away.

What did I miss???

We need a .460 S&W from somebody...and a .357 Maximum with a properly cut chamber.

[runfiverun]

some decent 92's in the 600 range in calibers like 38-40,32-20,25-20, 480 ruger, 41 mag [first choice] 22 lr, 327 fed.
heck a 375 short mag would be cool too.

[Jeff H]

Sounds like good ideas to me.
Did I miss the .357 Max in there somewhere?

I would like to see Rugers levers come back as well and in more cartridges.
Shame to see that one gone so quickly.

[northmn]

41 magnum seems to be a pretty hot item among the used Marlins. Wonder about the new 327 mag in a rifle?

DP

[870TC]

Winchester made some 71's in .348 this year.

[Jeff H]

41 magnum seems to be a pretty hot item among the used Marlins. Wonder about the new 327 mag in a rifle?

DP

No, no .41 mag. I would then have to buy one of those and the Ruger Flat Top in ..41 mag and then be stuck having a custom .41 Special carry gun made and I can't afford all that. The .41 mag is just too good an all around cartridge and would take away my excuses to have .44s and .357s.;-)

.327 is one I never thought of. Never gave it a second thought as a revolver round - don't need it with what else I have but that sure would be an interesting proposition in a lever.

[August]

We could use an American (or Japanese) made '73 too.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
A lever action in any Supermag cartrige... Especiallly 414 !

[pietro]

I dunno.......... I'd be mighty partial, to a stainless steel Marlin 39, slightly re-engineered for the .22 Magnum.

AND, I'd purdee-like to see a Winchester Big Bore .444 Carbine again...............

.

[August]

I dunno.......... I'd be mighty partial, to a stainless steel Marlin 39, slightly re-engineered for the .22 Magnum.
.

They're called "Remlins" now, and I doubt you'd want to purchase what they come up with.

[Bret4207]

The problem is if they did bring out a new Savage 99 it would cost a grand and there's simply no way I could justify that kind of money for a gun, no matter how much I wanted it. If I could wish there'd be 2 99 actions- one standard for stuff from 219 Zipper- 38-55 including the 308/358. etc. Then there'd be a correspondingly smaller version for the 218 Bee/25-20/32-20/357/44 Mag sized cartridges.

Yeah, dream on.

[NHlever]

Well, the Ruger 96/22 was a rough copy of the 99 Savage since Bill Ruger was a big fan of them, but too many shortcuts were made perhaps. I agree that scaled down guns would be a lot of fun, but it seems that if it isn't the biggest, and fastest, it doesn't sell all that well in this country. Hopefully that cycle will pass.

[NHlever]

There are growth problems in the transition as can be expected. We can only hope that the Remington folks get things together, and produce guns that are even better than before. There sure aren't many new ones in the racks at gun shops yet!

[excess650]

I bought a new Marlin 1894c last year and it didn't have a rebounding hammer. Did something change with the manufacturing relocate?

As for the Savage in smaller frame, bring it on!!! IIRC, there was a prototype made in 32-20, and that would be great!

Marlin could bring back the Model 62....

[Bret4207]

IIRC Arthur Savages original 1895 prototype was in 32-20. That's where I got the idea. I picture a 6 lbs 22" barreled slim and trim little walking around rifle. Like a 92 Winchester with out the faults. (sorry hammer gun/tube mag fans, just my opinion)

[Artful]

If I could wish, there'd be 2 99 actions- one standard for stuff from 219 Zipper- 38-55 (375 big Bore) including the 22-250, 243, 250, 7mm08 ,308, 338 and 358. etc. Then there'd be a correspondingly smaller version for the 218 Bee/25-20/32-20/357mag & max/44 Mag/454/460/500 sized cartridges.

Yeah, dream on. ok

fixed yours for ya.

oh, and make that smaller one scaled so that you can include 223, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, 300BLK, 338 spectre, 458 socom, 50 Hushpuppy, 50 Beowolf, 7.62x39, 9x39.

Ya could even make the bigger one a llittle bigger for 6.5x55, 7x57, 8x57 - I don't think we want it all the way to '06 length though.

make it with some of the new features - Stainless steel - drilled for scout scope rail for instance which should be a factory offering.

Offer it with a good composite stock for $600 range.

And bring back the Model 24 over/under in blackened stainless steel in all the calibers he had before plus .357 max

[Bret4207]

Okay, the 50 and 500 stuff was bad enough but I draw the line at stainless and plastic frickin' stocks! Arthur Savage built guns out of blued steel and walnut as God intended. I see no reason to get all sacrilegious by turning the finest lever action rifle ever designed into a pimp gun.:lol:

[Artful]

Bret I sympathize, But you know tradition has it's place but if you want to compete you need to make the price point and you need to use the materials that will do it. The younger shooters need an inexpensive gun and synthetic will get you a stable stock that does it at a price they can afford. First step is getting the public to buy it. No reason you can't be like Ruger offer plastic, lamanate and traditional stocks all on the same line.

- I used to be all about the blued steel and Walnut figure but look at what sells now - Black Rifles. I even own a half dozen - they don't hurt ya (well maybe your pocket book)

As for Stainless, I did say blackened - Black chrome or one of the new finishes, much better protection and much easier to maintain and cheaper to produce than the old time Blued Finish.

Don't be thinking about only what you would want to buy but what will actually bring a product back. Why is it that you still have Browning, Mar/Remlin and Winchester but Savage didn't replace the tooling that wore out on the 99 line? - If you have one the CNC wonder stations you can produce whatever you want but it has to sell to bother doing it - to get the 1895 / 1899 back in to production you need to look at it with new eyes.

You may not get a 65 mustang made again but I don't want a Mustang II - but I do like the new/renewal of classic Mustang but it's not the same care you could have bought in the 60's it had to appeal to the buyers of today - but it did make a comeback - They messed up with the T-bird revival - I just want Savage to look at what they could do with the old chassis.

[dgslyr]

A friend has a hunting show that Savage is a sponser of.I asked the fellow that runs the place once why they didn't bring back the 99.He said they could make 6 bolt actions for what it cost to make 1 model 99.Who would pay 6 prices for one?

[Bret4207]

Bret I sympathize, But you know tradition has it's place but if you want to compete you need to make the price point and you need to use the materials that will do it. The younger shooters need an inexpensive gun and synthetic will get you a stable stock that does it at a price they can afford. First step is getting the public to buy it. No reason you can't be like Ruger offer plastic, lamanate and traditional stocks all on the same line.

- I used to be all about the blued steel and Walnut figure but look at what sells now - Black Rifles. I even own a half dozen - they don't hurt ya (well maybe your pocket book)

As for Stainless, I did say blackened - Black chrome or one of the new finishes, much better protection and much easier to maintain and cheaper to produce than the old time Blued Finish.

Don't be thinking about only what you would want to buy but what will actually bring a product back. Why is it that you still have Browning, Mar/Remlin and Winchester but Savage didn't replace the tooling that wore out on the 99 line? - If you have one the CNC wonder stations you can produce whatever you want but it has to sell to bother doing it - to get the 1895 / 1899 back in to production you need to look at it with new eyes.

You may not get a 65 mustang made again but I don't want a Mustang II - but I do like the new/renewal of classic Mustang but it's not the same care you could have bought in the 60's it had to appeal to the buyers of today - but it did make a comeback - They messed up with the T-bird revival - I just want Savage to look at what they could do with the old chassis.

Artful I forgot to add a smiley to that post. I know what you're saying, but I think the 99 would be like the '86 and '95 Winchesters. The people buying them are in a niche market and want as close to a duplicate of the original as possible. Those looking for plastic, price and "shine" aren't going to want a 99 in the first place.

[NHlever]

Today, CNC machines make some things possible that had become cost prohibitive, or too skill dependent a few years ago. Material removal rates are now improving in a big way too! I know that the chambers on some revolver cylinders are drilled at 200 inches per minute for example. Of course the finish reaming isn't done quite that quickly. :D So, with things like investment casting, and CNC we should never say never I guess.

[C1PNR]

bowfin for President!!

Let's see, what did he leave out? I'll have to get back to you on that.:coffeecom

[Artful]

A friend has a hunting show that Savage is a sponser of.I asked the fellow that runs the place once why they didn't bring back the 99.He said they could make 6 bolt actions for what it cost to make 1 model 99.Who would pay 6 prices for one?

Well someone said one of the chain stores had stevens 200's for 179.00 so * 6 = 1074 - which is about what Brett had guessed at - I'm thinking they can do it cheaper than that. I know the clip model was cheaper/easier to produce.

And I'm thinking starting with a casting so you don't have to do as much milling/drilling you can have it for 600.00 range. Of course I'm not a mfg just a consumer but I see what Ruger and the other companies can do and betting that Savage could use similar technology too make it happen. After all they said you couldn't make FAL receivers for a reasonable price but they have.

or am I just dreaming and all guns will be liberal nighmare AK's, AR's and UZI's
[smilie=6:

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Unfortunately, the object of these Remington-Marlin-Winchester-Browing-Miroku-Savage-H&R-Smith-Colt and similar business transactions has not been to accomodate American shooters with a great quality and variety of small demand quantities of classic firearms. That's why tang safties are installed on 94s now.

Never was. Our favorites are going the way of the classic field doubles of my youth. UP ! UP ! UP ! and you can't really afford a new made one. Just like a '34 Packard Touring Sedan.

If you really want a classic firearm, sell off some of the mass produced things you have now and enjoy, specialize on finding, shooting, preserving, enjoying, and passing on your classic dream to the next shooter. There are still some cherries out there. You just have to pay for one.

BvT

[451whitworth]

The problem is if they did bring out a new Savage 99 it would cost a grand and there's simply no way I could justify that kind of money for a gun, no matter how much I wanted it. If I could wish there'd be 2 99 actions- one standard for stuff from 219 Zipper- 38-55 including the 308/358. etc. Then there'd be a correspondingly smaller version for the 218 Bee/25-20/32-20/357/44 Mag sized cartridges.

Yeah, dream on.
if savage could make the 99 again for a grand it would sell. it's really not out of reach of the shooters who would actually buy one. the problem is they can't. machined steel, quality finish, skilled assembly, and walnut cost money.

[Bret4207]

I doubt it. If it cost a grand or more they'd sell a couple hundred and that'd be about it.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't fathom spending more than $4-500.00 on a production rifle. There must be a lot of people with a lot more money than I think there are out there.

[northmn]

I doubt it. If it cost a grand or more they'd sell a couple hundred and that'd be about it.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't fathom spending more than $4-500.00 on a production rifle. There must be a lot of people with a lot more money than I think there are out there.

As I get older I realize that $100 is not a lot fo money anymore. When I look at the gun racks at the local gun shops, $500 does not buy the better grade rifles anymore. Marlins 30-30's are beign listed at $599 now. Even used ones are getting spendy. I just bit the bullet to get a little 32-20 I ahve been drooling over. Kind of agree with the Baron.

DP

[Artful]

I doubt it. If it cost a grand or more they'd sell a couple hundred and that'd be about it.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't fathom spending more than $4-500.00 on a production rifle. There must be a lot of people with a lot more money than I think there are out there.

Look how much money the kids spend on the AR's and all the add-on's - you check out the price of a new revolver lately -

Inflation has hit the price of new and used guns in the last 10 years.:evil:

I remember complaining about this long time ago and someone with economic smarts pointed out the cost of a Colt SAA cost a months wages in 1880's and cost a month's wages in 1970's - I think you will find that not day by day accurate but it will hold true as a marker of the economic worth of your dollar.

[Bret4207]

Well, as I get older every single dollar becomes more valuable. I hate to sound like an old codger but I simply can't spend the kind of money that I see some doing. I don;t even buy moulds or GBs anymore, it's just gotten too high. I think the way things are headed we're goingt o see a lot more folks in my position. Anyone that thinks things are going to get "better" any time soon is dreaming.

[btroj]

Yes, the "kids" do spend big bucks on AR's and add ons. Bit those rifles have a cool factor in the eye of the buyer. A lever action is not going to get that market share.

The companies would be making the products if they felt the market for them existed. A run of a few thousand would lead to prices that are out of reach to most of us. Production cost goes down as number of units goes up. Not many people here are going to buy a 1200 dollar gun.

We can dream, we can hope, we can whine, but we can't bring back the old days. Sorry guys, the glory days of lever actions are gone

Brad

[451whitworth]

I doubt it. If it cost a grand or more they'd sell a couple hundred and that'd be about it.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't fathom spending more than $4-500.00 on a production rifle. There must be a lot of people with a lot more money than I think there are out there.
as Northmn said, a few hundred bucks just doesn't buy the kind of quality you're talking about anymore. look at the Miroku lever rifles, they sell well enough and they are not $500. they haven't been $500 since the '80's and they do production runs of a couple thousand. 2004 was the year i really noticed firearm prices begining to escalate beyond the normal slight yearly increases. Brett4207, to one of your points about spending money. i'm sure that some of the people spending money on things that cost more than you can justify have less money than you. they just don't have that thrift mindset that was most likely instilled in you by your upbringing.

[Bret4207]

Maybe that's it 451. I never saw the sense in spending money on tobacco and beer when there was a mortgage to be paid and food to be bought either and nothing in the savings account. To each their own I suppose.

[NHlever]

It has been a rough time for shooters with all the recent mergers, and buy outs in the gun industry, and there sure have been some issues caused by them. Still, I think new management teams are doing well if they can get everything on track in three years, much less in one. I think we do need to give them a chance to get their act together before we condem them, but I don't think we need to finance the process with the purchase of low quality products in the meantime. Manufacturing companies need to know that their first priority for a successful fresh start is making sure what goes out the door is good, and that a good effort is made to make it even better! No one has to ship junk to survive....... doesn't work anyway. One corporate level guy asked me once what was going on where I worked, and I replied that there was a good system of "blame based failure justification" in place, and it wasn't working too well. Hmm, might have burned a bridge, or two with that comment. :D

[jameslovesjammie]

I can't think of a much handier mid range rifle than a Savage 99 in 6.8 SPC. Wasn't there a .270 Savage wildcat in the 30's?

[Bret4207]

Yup, the 300 Sav case necked to 270. They did 25, 6.5 and 35 too IIRC.

[Artful]

Yes, the "kids" do spend big bucks on AR's and add ons. Bit those rifles have a cool factor in the eye of the buyer. A lever action is not going to get that market share.

The companies would be making the products if they felt the market for them existed. A run of a few thousand would lead to prices that are out of reach to most of us. Production cost goes down as number of units goes up. Not many people here are going to buy a 1200 dollar gun.

We can dream, we can hope, we can whine, but we can't bring back the old days. Sorry guys, the glory days of lever actions are gone

Brad


Didn't I read that just before Bill Ruger brought out his #1's and #3's :bigsmyl2:

Never underestimate coolness - all it will take is just one TV or Movie with the right character and gun - look at demand for SAA with the Western TV shows or 44mag sales after Dirty Harry or P90 sales after Stargate started using 'em - just need one good guy using a Savage 99 to pump up the demand for 'em enough to bring back to production. [smilie=1:

[bohica2xo]

1200 bucks for a new 99? should not be a problem.

Many people have paid more than that for a Kel-Tec RFB, and they are still standing in line for them @ 1400 bucks.

Good rifles are expensive. Just the way it is.

Now, since this is a fantasy thread...

When you take that 99 to the CNC, punch in a scale factor of about 1.25.. and make us a takedown action that can handle a 505 Gibbs. We will handle the oddball calibers from there... Three in the magazine will be just fine.

B.

[olafhardt]

UWhat has Need got to do with it? The top eject Winchester 94 as made in the 70's in 30-30 is m:redneck:y favorite of all centerfire rifles. Ain't life great. :redneck:

[micky_blue]

I have half of what you want in the basement and would sell you a lovely package of guns if you want.

Have an 1894fg in 41 mag in great condition with the box
Also have 1894cl in 218 bee with 170 rounds and 30 empties
Lastly a Browning 71 in 348 with 100 rounds of winchester and 100 rounds of conley with 220gr barnes

micky