Cast vs. Bought?

[ShrinkMD]

I know that unless I can scrounge free lead, it will take a while to recoup the investment in equipment, but I am interested.

I am curious if people can provide approximate figures on, say the cost of lead to make up 1000 45 cal 200 gr SWC vs buying them? I have purchased Dardas cast bullets, and he charges about $84 plus shipping (although he offers a 15% discount on a big order)

So, if I had to buy the alloy and lead myself, how much would it cost to make up a batch of these bullets? Obviously free lead would make more sense...

Thanks.

[mooman76]

Simple math. 7000 gr in a lb. Lead you can get for $1 a lb or less.

[Doby45]

Lets just say you bought a flat rate box of lead from one of our vendors.

I think it is something like 50-60lbs for $50-$60, usually comes out to a $1 a pound for good known ingots from our vendors.

Anyway

1lb = 7000g divided by 200 = 35 boolits per pound X 60lbs = 2100 boolits. I say you win.

Not taking equipment into cost you just got $168 worth of boolits for $60..

[bumpo628]

200 grn * 1000 pcs / 7000 gr/lb = 28.5 lbs
No need to scrounge, you can buy lead in the vendor sales or swapping & selling pages of this website. The going rate is $1 / lb as mentioned above.

At $84, that give you about $55 per thousand bullets of savings.
You can buy casting equipment for about $100, so it pays off in about 2K bullets.

[462]

The above posts prove the savings, so I will approach it from another direction.

1. Casting is a logical extension of reloading.
2. Casting allows a shooter to hand tailor boolits to his/her gun(s), the same way reloading allows the reloader to hand tailor a load.
3. Casting helps a shooter avoid the all-to-often, ill-blowing political winds.
4. Casting can become a very enjoyable hobby.
5. Casting allows a shooter to better understand his/her gun(s).
6. Casting time is time spent away from the television and golf course.

[ShrinkMD]

If I wanted to shoot bullets that were a little harder, I guess the cost per pound would go up a bit, right?

Also, I was looking at the Master Caster from Magma Engineering. I read some of the other threads about it, so I am familiar with some of the pros and cons. I like the idea of being able to digitally regulate the temp and make the process a little more idiot proof. I definitely agree with 462's comments that casting is a logical extension of reloading. I have really enjoyed learning how to do things, and the knowledge of tools and minor carpentry has definitely made me feel more confident taking on "handy" projects.

I do like the idea of tailoring the load to the gun one step further. I'm just concerned about any hobby that could result in molten metal spattering on me. My garage setup doesn't allow for a logical place to put an exhaust fan. Do people set up casting tables outside to avoid the vapor problems? My backyard is more private, and I have electrical access...

[John Boy]

Not taking equipment into cost you just got $168 worth of boolits for $60.. Plus the quality of your cast bullets will be better than store bought. Compare how well they are filled out and the sharp edges and smooth bases on the cast ones

[stubshaft]

I have my casting table set up outside on the balcony of my third floor apartment. FWIW - I have not had very good luck with store bought cast boolits. I may be biased though since I know what to expect from a cast boolit.

[Bullshop]

" If I wanted to shoot bullets that were a little harder, I guess the cost per pound would go up a bit, right? "

No not necessarily. You can quench harden the same alloy. For instance if you are using ww alloy at bhn 9 it is quite easy to get it to bhn 20 by quenching .

[bumpo628]

First, buy the 50 lbs of lead for $50. Buy it in ingot form so there is no need to for smelting equipment at this time.

You can get the casting equipment at midwayusa.com
$48 - Lee Production Pot Four Furnace 110 Volt http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=637732
$19 - Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 452-200-SWC 200 Grain Semi-Wadcutter http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=662400
$17 - Lee Lube and Size Kit 452 Diameter http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=116429
__________________________________________________ ________
$84 - subtotal
$14 - shipping
$98 - delivered

Add the lead and the equipment and you get:
$148 - final cost

So for less than the price of 2000 bullets, you can make your own and get the casting equipment too.

[Bret4207]

If I wanted to shoot bullets that were a little harder, I guess the cost per pound would go up a bit, right? For most 45's you don't need them any harder. Stop listening to the "harder is better" advertising hype. It's NOT better, just different.

Also, I was looking at the Master Caster from Magma Engineering. I read some of the other threads about it, so I am familiar with some of the pros and cons. I like the idea of being able to digitally regulate the temp and make the process a little more idiot proof. I definitely agree with 462's comments that casting is a logical extension of reloading. I have really enjoyed learning how to do things, and the knowledge of tools and minor carpentry has definitely made me feel more confident taking on "handy" projects. Why don't you try casting first to see if you even like it? It's not for everyone and a Master Caster is serious bucks and totally unneeded for non-commercial projects.

I do like the idea of tailoring the load to the gun one step further. I'm just concerned about any hobby that could result in molten metal spattering on me. My garage setup doesn't allow for a logical place to put an exhaust fan. Do people set up casting tables outside to avoid the vapor problems? My backyard is more private, and I have electrical access...

If you use common sense, like not splashing about in molten lead alloy or purposely forcing water under the mix, then the little lead spatters you get can be taken care of with a long sleeve cotton shirt, pants, safety glasses and cotton gloves. You aren't going to be working in a steel mill. As for lead vapors, again using common sense temps, < 1000 F, you won't have any issues. Lead doesn't vaporize at normal casting temps of 650-800 degrees F. You are probably in more danger from fluxing with waxes or oils than lead or from not washing your hands after working with lead. I would cast in my garage and just provide some ventilation if you are worried.

Seriously, if you could find a local caster to show you whats involved that would probably negate most of your fears.

[onesonek]

I can't add a lot abot the savings when one cast their. The more one shoots the faster return on the equipment is a logical deduction. The math mentioned, shows the 15% saved on a larger order of commercial boughten is not all that great, but better than no savings. The other aspect is,,,if you stock up on lead now, you are hedging bets against inflation. Prices on shooting supplies isn't going to go down as far as I can see. And with gas and energy prices rising again, you will see all components go up with increased shipping cost. It's a win win situation right now, in buying all the supplies/lead you can afford. I really don't see lead going down much if any at all, I can see it going up a lot. I wish I had 2-3 times more than I have on hand right now.

[targetshootr]

If you buy good equipment, you'll get most of your money out of it if you ever stop casting. So it's hard to go wrong. Also, factor in the fun of it, as was mentioned already.

[wiljen]

Another thing to consider is that a lot of commercial casters use the same alloy for everything which is not conducive to best accuracy. a 45 ACP at 850fps (16,000PSI) doesn't need an alloy as strong as a 9mm at 1200fps and 34,000 PSI. When you buy from commercial outfits (with a few noteworthy exceptions) they don't tell you what the alloy is or give you a choice. Same with lube and sizing. You get the standard .451 made of 92/6/2 lubed with hard blue or red lube. There might be a gun somewhere where that is the best combination of components for it, but it sure hasn't ever been any of my guns.

[462]

A casting furnace does not get the melt hot enough to create concern about fumes. There was a thread that discussed this and a few posters provided scientific evidence that the melt would have to be in the 1200-degree range , if memory serves, before any harmful lead fumes were emitted.

Common sense, safety practices and equipment, and always being aware of what you are doing -- no distractions, no alcohol, etc. -- greatly reduce the chance of getting splattered by molten lead. That's not to say that an accident won't happen, but there is much a caster can do to prevent it.

Smelting/rendering wheel weights is best done outdoors. I don't know if the process produces toxic fumes, but there is a lot of smoke and odor.

Get a copy or two of any of Lyman's four Cast Bullet Handbooks. They provide much information about casting equipment and the process, as well as the most in-depth load information available.

[1Shirt]

Just my 2 cents on the subject. I used to buy a fair number of commercial cast, just to compair with what I cast. Often they were not up to the quality that I expect of my casting (and culling of course). Also some commercial were not the hardness advertized, or in a couple of cases, sized to the advertized dia.

Now the only cast I buy are from Bullshop if I don't have a mold that he advertizes, and I want to try the bullet. You get what he advertizes, and the quality of the casting is first rate.

There is to me, a satisfaction in shooting a blt that I have cast, and an enjoyment in casting, checking,lubing, loading etc. It is not for everyone, and that is good, because the supply of lead, wheelweights, etc. goes down as there are now it seems more casters. And the price goes up!
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[mdi]

FWIW. A lot of good answers to the question of costs, explained very well. I cast bullets for all the mentioned reasons PLUS, I enjoy making my own. There is a commercial on TV; Suitcases $89.95, Plane Tickets, $300.00, Sunsets, Priceless (or sumpin' like that).

For me, taking a bunch of dirty scrap lead, smelting it into clean ingots, melting those ingots down and making custom bullets specifically for MY gun, making those bullets the perfect size and putting custom lube of my own making on them, and shooting them in MY gun is PRICELESS!

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I have been casting since the late 1950s when a nieghbor introduced me to black powder and the guns that used it. The problem then as now was not in the money saved but rather in getting the proper size to fit the gun you want to use it in. For example, one one my favorite rifles in which to use cast is a 30.06. Now you may want to disagree but the -06 has a .308 grove and that is what I size my bullets to. When I try commercial bullets they are ususlly .310 or .311. If I have to resize them anyway I will just make my own. I should also point out that if you want to become proficient with a handgun you will most definitely have to cast and reload, that is unless you are very wealthy. That is a state of being that most of us will never experience. If I have misspelled a word or two in this short epistle , don't worry about it.

[Daddyfixit]

"Also, I was looking at the Master Caster from Magma Engineering. I read some of the other threads about it, so I am familiar with some of the pros and cons. I like the idea of being able to digitally regulate the temp and make the process a little more idiot proof."

Nice set up, but expensive. I wouldn't buy a lamborghini for a someone just learning to drive!
You would have to shoot ALOT of ammo to recoupe a major investment like that!
I've been happy with my LEE equiptment.

[Swede44mag]

I don't like to be dependent on the Gun shops to get cast boolits or have to order them from a online caster. I like to be able to make my boolits when I want and how many I want.

I started with a propane cook stove a frying pan and a boolit mold. Can't get much simpler than that. You can dip or swage the boolits to apply the lube.

[MtGun44]

"If I wanted to shoot bullets that were a little harder" -

No need for any pistol loads to go harder than air cooled wheel weights. So far, in my
LIMITED rifle experience, the same is true. I reserve the capability to heat treat WWt
alloy if needed for rifles. Honestly, if you have normal WWt alloy, you are pretty much
set, MAYBE you might add a smidgin of tin to improve fill out.

Bill

[thegreatdane]

I love the cost benifits of casting. It's enabled me to shoot lots and lots for cheap.

But here recently, I've purcased a couple commercial boolits to try and solve my 10mm leading.

[Skipper488]

I haven't paid for any lead yet (all scrounged wheel weights) I'm thinking of buying some pure lead to strtch my wheel weight alloy though. Anyway you cut it I've recouped my investment very quickly.

Lee 2 cavity mold $21
Used Turkey Fryer $35
Cast iron dutch oven for smelting $16
Lyman dipper $23
Lead thermometer $25
Assorted kitchen utensils stolen from the wife's domain, a few strips of hide but my old hide ain't worth much anyway.
I use a coleman stove that I've had around forever and a small pan to cast from.