Ruger #1 cast bullet diameter?

[Nardoo]

Hi Guys,
I am having trouble finding accurate loads for cast bullets in my newly aquired Ruger #1 45/70. The loads that worked so well in my Marlin 45/70 are disasterous. I use various bullets from 300 to 425 grains, PB amd GC with a variety of powders sized in a .458" lube die. After slugging the bore it appears to be .4485" lands, .4585" grooves (Not that confident of the lands size as I had to measure with the vernier as my micrometer is too wide).
Do I need to size the bullet larger than .458? I cannot go too far as most of my moulds drop around .458"/.459".
The gun shoots jacketed bullets at about 1.5 MOA so it is not the barrel quality.
The best luck has been with Lyman 320 gn plain base hollow points with slow powders at velocities under 1400 fps.
The RCBS 405 gn gas check bullets that I can drive to over 1800 fps in my Marlin's micro-groove barrel with wonderful accuracy are keyholing at 1500 fps in the Ruger.
Can someone help?
Thanks
Nardoo

[Frank46]

My ruger #1 in 45/70 slugs out at .459 and the only cast boolet so far down the tube was lymans 480 gr 45 gas checked rifle bullet. Loads around 1400 fps didn't lead but weren't very accurate either. I'm thinking going to at least .461 for better bore fit and hopefully more accuracy. Problem is that with wheelweights +2% tin the bullets are only .459 in diameter. Plus the throat on my ruger isn't. The rifling starts where the chamber ends. Frank

[Lloyd Smale]

I had my best luck in my old 458 #1 with .460

[NickSS]

I use a lyman 457125 400 gr bullet in my Ruger #1 it is sized or should I say lubed in a .459 sizing die. I use 42 gr of 3031 and get good accuracy but it is not a fast load probably around 1400 fps. I have been using this bullet for about 35 years now and like it a lot for shooting at up to 300 yards. Beyound that I use heavier bullets. One bullet that works well also is the RCBS 45-325 FN. I originally bought this bullet for my lever action Marlin but have used it in a lot of other 45-70 and 45-90 with smokeless and black powder. It shoots good in most of my rifles. I size them .459 as well

[charger 1]

Hi Guys,
I am having trouble finding accurate loads for cast bullets in my newly aquired Ruger #1 45/70. The loads that worked so well in my Marlin 45/70 are disasterous. I use various bullets from 300 to 425 grains, PB amd GC with a variety of powders sized in a .458" lube die. After slugging the bore it appears to be .4485" lands, .4585" grooves (Not that confident of the lands size as I had to measure with the vernier as my micrometer is too wide).
Do I need to size the bullet larger than .458? I cannot go too far as most of my moulds drop around .458"/.459".
The gun shoots jacketed bullets at about 1.5 MOA so it is not the barrel quality.
The best luck has been with Lyman 320 gn plain base hollow points with slow powders at velocities under 1400 fps.
The RCBS 405 gn gas check bullets that I can drive to over 1800 fps in my Marlin's micro-groove barrel with wonderful accuracy are keyholing at 1500 fps in the Ruger.
Can someone help?
Thanks
Nardoo


Fact proven time and again by yours truly is that marlins will shoot pretty much anything you feed them,I'd swear they'll accurately chuck jelly beans. The marlin will operate at boolit sizes up to .0015>.002 smaller than the ruger barrel. My marlin throws 458 boolits like crazy, if you feed any ruger barrel I've seen including my lott smaller than 4595,it'll look at you and say"what you want me to do with that"..Smaller bore on the marlin plus more contact in its design leading to better objuration and bore fill...Now having said that, my experience has also been that if you dont abandon the ruger, you maybe fire lap the bore 15-20 rounds,get a .460 boolit,that tall rifling will become your friend, but their not as outta the box user friendly as the marlin

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Problem with the Ruger is that the twist is very slow. As I recall from my rifle - 1:22 and shallow depth rifling, which had problems stabilising cast bullets over 420gn at low velocities.
I had mine rebarrelled to a 45/120 with 1:16 BPCR from Green Mountain and it will now handle up to a 570gn .459 cast bullet. Deeper rifling and tighter twists greatly improved the rifles performance.

[Bass Ackward]

Do I need to size the bullet larger than .458? I cannot go too far as most of my moulds drop around .458"/.459".

The gun shoots jacketed bullets at about 1.5 MOA so it is not the barrel quality.



Nardoo,

The first question can have long or short answers. Both end up yes. You need at the very least to at least be .4585. Most guys seem to shoot for .002 over bore diameter.

But it's the second comment that I want to ask you about. How do you know that it isn't the barrel quality?

For lead, you need a barrel that is smooth of finish and consistent of dimensions. This is because if you break the bore seal, game over. Jacketed don't care.

All you can say at this point in your experience is that jacketed are accurate to that level. Understand? The barrel HAS accuracy potential, but maybe needs work for lead. But you need larger bullets to find out.

[trk]

Take a look at the throat. My #1 in 458WM has a long gradual throat taper, but I've heard that the .45-70's is abrupt. I've had no problems with 300 to 485 grain bullets - iron sights can hit a 2" 1-qt OJ bottle lid at 80 yards consistantly. I like to size with minimum deformation of the bullet, so I do so at .460".

[45 2.1]

Do yourself a favor and use the largest boolit you can get in a fired case. Even 0.460" is a little too small. My No. 1 will shoot like a match rifle with soft 0.462" boolits.

[Bullshop]

B. A. Wallace
Curious as to what you did for scope, sight arrangment. Did you use origonal Ruger hardware?
BIC/BS

[Nardoo]

Thank you one and all, I am indebted to you for your collective wisdom. I will try some larger bullets and see how they go. I guess I have had it easy up until now as all my other rifles have responded well to a range of cast bullets. My new .375 H and H shot a 10 shot 1.5 MOA group with the first 10 cast bullets through it - and at 1850 fps. I though I was an expert but realise now that it was just dumb luck.
So to respond; Frank, I also use WW + 2% sn and the throat on my #1 isn't either. What was Ruger thinking?
Lloyd, I have seen a #1 in .458 mag. Its barrel had more steel in it than my boat trailer axle, but still retained the inherent grace of all Ruger #1's. I will try .460"
Nick. Thirty-five years is a long time to be using that bullet, it sure must be a good one. I am looking to push a 400 gn + bullet past 1800 fps for hunting Sambar. They are a big deer with unbelievable vitality.
Charger, I must agree with you regarding the ease of loading cast bullets for Marlins. I have an old .375 Win Marlin that will digest just about anything and shoot them accurately. Haven't tried jelly beans yet - do you find the black ones shoot better? Also, not sure about fire lapping. I see kits are available to do so from Beartooth (and probably others) but they are not available here in Australia. Any hints for making up a do it yourself kit? Or can I polish the bore adequately with abrasive bore paste?
Wallace, the barrel has only had 70 shots through it. Bit early for this little wood duck to be looking at replacing it. The Ruger has a 1 in 20 twist, the same as the Marlin, and it certainly has shallow rifling - but so is Marlin's micro groove. I would surely love to be able to use 570 grain bullets though.
Bass, point taken. I shall choose my words more carefully with the knowledge that you may be looking on. Perhaps think a little harder before I write, too. I understand what you say; now what is your considered opinion on assisting this barrel to reach its optimum potential? Fire-lapping?
trk, there is no throat to speak of. The rifling begins at the end of the chamber. But isn't that a good thing for cast bullets? By that I mean there should be no jump for the bullet between case and rifling to become misaligned.
45 2.1 Now .462" sounds great but I think I''ll need a larger expander on my dies. Do anything to get that kind of accuracy though.

Thank you all
Nardoo

[45 2.1]

45 2.1 Now .462" sounds great but I think I''ll need a larger expander on my dies. Do anything to get that kind of accuracy though.Thank you all Nardoo

I make my own expander plugs also, about 0.0015" under boolit diameter. For the larger boolits, you can neck size with a LEE factory crimp die for the 45 Colt and flair the case mouth slightly and be good to go.

[JFE]

Nardoo,
there is an article on firelapping and its effects on throating etc on www.bellmtcs.com. Well worth reading before you try it.
Joe