1942 LongBranch and some questions.

[res45]

I have the opportunity to purchase a 1942 LB #4 Mk 1* that is in excellent condition. I cleaned the bore of the well stored rifle last night and it is in pristine condition,no rust,no pitting looks like a new barrel on the rifle if I had to guess. The bolt head also appears to be fairly new with only some minor bluing rubbed off,it also has a #1 bolt head.

Two things I'm interested in finding out the bolt is not the original,it's a LB bolt from a MK1 rifle. I was informed that it was refurbish due to the fact that that the receives is Parkerized,are mis-matched bolts very common on 303 rifles?

I also slugged the bore,I knew beforehand that it was a two groove rifle the lands which cover 3/4 or more of bores surface measure .304 the groove to groove dia. is .315 I cast and reload for several comblock rifle that measure .300 on the lands and .312 on the groove to groove dia.

I having a hard time trying to wrap my mind around how the two groove rifle can shoot .311 to .312 dia. bullets or larger dia. in cast and there going to be squeezed down to the .304 dia. since most of the bore measure that and it not have and adverse affect on the bullet or cause pressure issues. What am I missing here,I'm not very knowledgeable on the two groove rifles and the 303 itself so any info or help would be appreciated.

Here is a pic of the rear bolt assembly and the Mk 3 ladder sight.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/rhsikes/303011.jpg

[JeffinNZ]

Looks REAL tidy from what we can see. Don't you go worrying about 2 groovers. They shoot cast brilliantly when fed fat bullets.

[res45]

Thanks Jeff,it needs a bit more detailed cleaning,lots of old grease and dust in all the nooks and crannies on everything but I don't mind putting the time in.

What kind of finish did they put on these rifles I've heard raw linseed oil,my buttstock appears to have a pretty heavy buildup compared the the rest of the rifles stock. What would be a good way of cleaning the wood without damaging it any further.

Ill get some better pics when the weather clears,my old cameras doesn't do well with indoor light up close.

[Jack Stanley]

I've used turpentine mixed with a little boiled linseed oil to clean up a stock that was just dirty . It's not near as agressive as using laquer thinner to clean a stock .

Jack

[res45]

Thanks for the info Jack,any certain ratio of linseed to turpentine? Do you just use clean rags or would something like 0000 or 000 steel wool be ok to use.

[Kraschenbirn]

I've also got a '42 LB...a 2-groove #4Mk1...and it, too, has a mismatched bolt (Darn it!) As I recall, mine slugs .305/.313. I lapped a Lee 312-185-1R out to drop .3155/.316 and, sized to .315, over 33.5 gr of H4895, it easily outshoots ball ammo.

So far as cleaning up the woodwork, a bucket of (very!) hot water with a healthy dose of Simple Green and a plastic bristle brush worked just fine for me. Took couple of throrough scrubbings to get the job done but the end result was well worth the effort. Steamed out the worst of the dents and a couple coats of hand-rubbed Formby's Tung Oil finished out the job.

From your pic, that one looks like a keeper...have fun with it.

Bill

[res45]

Here is about the best pic I can muster at the moment. On the front sight mine has what appears to be a .060 blade,I know they make like 12 differ size sight blades for these rifles. Does the .060 blade translate to anything meaningful I can use when sighting in the rifle.

I have a small hole punch machine at work I can punch out a smaller aperture like the one on the flip up long range sight. I was thinking that if the rifle shoot high at 100 yds. I could position the smaller aperture over the larger battle sight apature lower to cause me to have to lower the front sight blade. Probably take some trial and error once I find a load that groups well but that's the fun part.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/rhsikes/100_0855.jpg

[BruceB]

I've been using and studying the #4 Rifle ( including a LOT of Long Branch- manufactured rifles) for over fifty years, and this is the first time I've heard of #4 Mk 1 bolts being different from #4Mk1* bolts. What is the "difference"?

If it's the round cocking piece, I saw MANY rifles in actual service in the Canadian Army with the rounded cocking piece, as well as the usual flat-sided type. The vast majority of our rifles were from Long Branch, and were #4 Mk1* types, although a few Savages were also present. I gather from your remarks that the bolt and receiver numbers don't match.

That is a seriously nice rifle, and they are getting harder and harder to find in such condition, Buy it!

[res45]

BruceB most of the #4 Mk1* online pics I've seen have the square cocking piece like the one pictured here http://www.angelfire.com/vt/milsurp/lb4.html that's the only type cocking piece I was accustom to till I saw this rifle I actually like it better.

You are correct the bolt and receiver serial# doesn't match they both have the little LB stamp on them. The serial # on the receiver is 18LXXXX while the one on the bolt is 14LXXXX the bolt head is also stamped LB and is a #1 bolt head.

[Ken T]

Here is about the best pic I can muster at the moment. On the front sight mine has what appears to be a .060 blade,I know they make like 12 differ size sight blades for these rifles. Does the .060 blade translate to anything meaningful I can use when sighting in the rifle.



The sighting in instructions can be found here:

http://www.enfieldrifles.ca/ti15.htm

There is a link on that page for calculating what front sight height you need to correct your elevation if needed.

Or you can adjust the rear sight to compensate.

Cheers!

[res45]

Thanks for the link Ken T,I just double checked my front sight and it a +.060 not sure how that will end up shooting at 100 yds. Guess I'll have to shoot some groups to see where it hits on paper do the math and go from there.

[303Guy]

This is how the two-groove 'swages' down a .310 bullet. No problem at all.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-201F-1.jpg

If a square base cast boolit is too large (mine has a .3175 groove diameter) the base edge gets feathered and sometimes squeezed out of shape so I tried a rebated boolit. The bore in mine is too rough for cast or patched boolits to get any decent velocity and I haven't tried it for accuracy since discovering how the boolit base gets affected. Now I have a mint bore two-groove which I am yet to field test.

Two of my No.4's have matching bolt numbers. It makes it easier to get the right bolt for each gun.

[res45]

Thanks for the info 303Guy,I have to get some dies and brass together and work up some loads to see how it shoots. I have .310,.310.5,.311 and .312 J bullets so one of them should work.

I have several cast bullets as well that may work,although I may have to paper patch them to get them up to dia. Currently I'm casting the Lee .312 which comes out at .313 and I can bagel it up to .315 pretty easy. So many projects so little time.

Another question,the flip up long range sight on the rifle appears to have a bent adjustment lever. It still functions I believe the little foot that engages the notches on the side of the sight is whats bent but it still seem to work fine guess I will just have to be careful with it. I'm not sure what and alternative would be this is my first 303 and I have much yet to learn.

[303Guy]

I'll have to have a look at my No.4 with the long range sights. It's not with me at the moment. I'll try remember to take my camera when next I go over to where its kept.

Looking at your No.4 I wish mine like that had the full woodwork on it. The bayonet lugg piece of barrel has been cut off, but that's OK. A suppressor-break will go where it was.

[Jack Stanley]

Thanks for the info Jack,any certain ratio of linseed to turpentine? Do you just use clean rags or would something like 0000 or 000 steel wool be ok to use.

If the crud is pretty thick I use three parts turpentine to one part boiled linseed oil . If it is less so , I mix it half and half and if clean cotton cloth won't move the stuff enough I use 0000 synthetic wool .

Just an interesting tip , If you have raised a dent or made a repair that takes the color out of the area . The fifty/fifty mix use on a small (about one and a half inch) piece of the synthetic wool and start rubbing the area lightly . The idea is to pick up crud from one area of the stock and move it to the area you repaired . In doing this you don't need much of the "cleaner" , just enough to make a small slurry of crud and spread it evenly . I have a rifle that I liked the color of and part of it was years of dirt . When I raised a dent it took the color I liked away and this is how I fixed it .

Jack

[303Guy]

... three parts turpentine to one part boiled linseed oil ...Don't forget that turpentine is not the same as mineral turps or turps substitute. Not sure it makes any difference as a cleaner but I do know the boiled linseed oil and genuine turpentine will clean all the old and dried up crud off a rifle stock. It's also the basis for the 'London Oil Finish' - that and plenty of rubbing with the palm of the hand and lots of time.

[res45]

Thanks Jack and 303 for the cleaning tips,I just want to clean the stock up a bit but not remove any of the history. A few dents and dings doesn't bother me I think it just add character to the old rifle.

Just wondering if there is any particular brand of brass that is better than another or is there any brand to stay ways form. Remington and Winchester are the most prevalent around here but I can order some Prvi Partizan.

[Bloodman14]

res45, you are right; that lever on the side should NOT be sticking out like that. Looks like it got snagged on something. Replacement sights are pretty common.

[res45]

Thanks Gunnerd,it still works but for how long I'm not sure,I have a friend on another board that has several new C MK3 sights,I sent him an email this morning to get a price. The one on the rifle still works so I'm going to use it till it gives up,it should work good with cast bullet loads since they tend to have more drop that factory loads.

Whats a good price on a replacement sight in the high/low figure. I only have $125 in the rifle $75 at purchase and $50 after I check everything out and see if it shoots to my liking,so a few parts are not much of an added cost.

While I have a lot of attention on the thread,on thing that is on my mind is headspace,I don't have a gage but I can rent one for $35 with $30 returned when I mail the gage back. A gentlemen from down in NZ explained to me that you can do this.


Using a empty case a fired primer and a vernier you can work out what your headspace is. Measure the case length then just start the old primer in the pocket place in chamber close bolt gently remove case remeasure case subtract first measurement from second if less than .74 all is good. Should not be less than .60 to tight can as bad as to loose. Case expansion from some 303 Brit rifles is just a fact of life using some brands of cases

I also read about the practice of using a rubber o ring agents the case rim to center the case in the chamber,it also is suppose to headspace the case to the rifles when fired using a reduced charge load and you then neck size the case from that point on which I had planned to do anyways.

I appreciate all the help and insight,I like to do my research before I jump into something headlong.

[Ken T]

Whats a good price on a replacement sight in the high/low figure. I only have $125 in the rifle $75 at purchase and $50 after I check everything out and see if it shoots to my liking,so a few parts are not much of an added cost.

Well, not sure how much in the USA.

In Canada the sights run $10-$18 at a shop that has reliable supply.

$10 for the L-type, and $15 for stamped ladder and $18 for milled ladder.

http://www.ellwoodepps.com/firearm_parts_lee_enfield_no4_1.htm

Cheers!

[res45]

Thanks Ken T,I'll check it out.