Need Help Identifying a Drilling

[Dragoon 45]

I need some help identifying a German Pre WW II drilling. It is a side by side 16 ga over a 9.3x72mmR barrel. The drilling is marked "Jaeger & Sons", with what I believe is a proofmark with "Firekrupp" stamped on the shotgun barrels. It has very fine checkering on the pistol grip stock with cheekpiece and appears to be made of some very high grade European Walnut. It is engraved on the receiver with a hunting scene depicting a stag facing either a large dog or wolf , surrounded by what I think are floral patterns. The engraving appears to be inletted with either German or pure Silver. Stampings on the barrel appear to be inletted with gold. There is a slide mounted on top of the receiver when pushed forward, allowes a peep sight to be raised for shooting the rifle barrel. In addition a single leaf sight is mounted on top of the barrels 3-4" forward of the hinge. Also stamped on the top barrels are two circles over one smaller circle, which I believe to be standard markings to indicate a drilling. I do not have any pictures yet.

I did an internet search on "Jaeger & Sons" and came up blank. The closest I could come was a listing for a "Jager & Co" combo O/U 16 ga, 9.3x72mmR. By researching the 9.3x72mmR, I did find out cartridges for the rifle barrel are collector's items according to "Cartridges of the World". Other than that I have been unable to find any other information.

This drilling belongs to an elderly lady I know whose husband recently passed away. She is fairly sure that he brought it home from Europe shortly after WW II. She is trying to find out how much it is worth.

Anyone here know where I might be able to find some information on this gun?

Thank You for your help.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
A double 16 guage from Austria from late 1890´s that was of high quality rescently sold on GB for $1200 . It was engraved and one beautiful shotgun.
Drillings vary in price. I have seen them anywhere from $850 up to 3500. If there is a Cabala store nearby they have interest in selling these tuype of firearms.

[firefly1957]

It sounds a lot like one I saw in Almont Michigan the owner brought it back from WWII it had some bone on it also. I got to look it over in the 1970's would of loved to shoot it.

[MtGun44]

Many GIs picked German civilian's personal guns as war trophies and brought them
home. The better the condition (tight and shootable?) and the more common the
caliber and gauge, the higher the value as a shooter. Some are primarily valued
as pieces of art, so the availability of ammo is unimportant. How about some pix?

A guess is that it is worth somewhere north of $1300, maybe a bunch.
Not really rare, but quality guns in general.

Billi

[Hardcast416taylor]

The Luftwaffe "survival kit drilling" is another highly sought after model.Robert

[Bret4207]

I'm betting that a long enough internet search will result in the discovery of a site devoted to these fine guns. My father told of guns similar to whats described as being rather common to find after WW2. I've seen a grand total of maybe 3 over the years. I think this may be one of those "beauty in the eye of the beholder" type things as far as value goes. Best for you to find a series of similar items sold through the suction houses to try and establish worth. I'd say an easy grand- $1500.

[Wayne Smith]

"Firekrupp stall" is I believe is a Krupp fluid steel mark. Good barrel. I'd have to look, but I believe the 9.3x72R is the same case as the 9.3x74R just 2mm shorter. If this is true than Hodgen makes the 9.3x74R and brass would be easy.

Do you want to shoot it or sell it? I'd obviously shoot it, but that's why many of us are here.

[scrapcan]

you could call Gardenswatrz Sporting Goods in Durango CO. They dealt in doubles and drillings alot in the mide/late 1990's. I loved to go there and drool while handling the firearms.

here is a link to contact info
http://www.durangobusiness.org/Sporting-Goods/Gardenswartz-Sporting-Goods

Or look in the double gun journal fo rthose to help id and value.

I too would be gathering stuff to shoot it if it were mine or I could have access to it.

[Old Ironsights]

It sounds a lot like the one I have, though yours sounds more "Presentation Grade" than mine.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/Roux%20Underlever%20Drilling/IMG_5177.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/Roux%20Underlever%20Drilling/IMG_5173.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/Roux%20Underlever%20Drilling/IMG_0840.jpg

Mine had Extra-Extra-Extra Full chokes. (16ga but you couldn't pull a 28ga Otis patch plug through it... It's now a Modified + Full)

Norma makes 9.3x72R brass. I use .38-55 loading data. Great Pig Gun @ 100m

The valuation I was given by RIA was between $1500 & $2500 depending on the insanity of the collector. A Presentation Grade could add $500 to $1000 more.

Lotsa pics of mine here (http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/Roux%20Underlever%20Drilling/)

[Dragoon 45]

According to "Cartridges of the World", the 9.3x72mmR is a tapered case while the 9.3x74mmR is a bottleneck. From the diagrams I saw it does not appear that they are interchangable. I am working on pictures of it to post, but probably won't have any for at least a couple of days.

I am trying to help this lady out by finding out a value for the drilling. I don't know if she just wants a value for insurance purposes or is willing to sell. It is definitely a beautiful piece of craftmanship. I also suspect the 16 ga barrels are chambered for 2 1/2" shells not modern length ones.

After looking at some Merkel and Krieghof drillings and prices in Shooter's Digest I thought that drillings would be more valuable than what little I could find about their values on the auction sites. But as I said earlier I know very little about them.

I am guessing that "Jaeger & Sons" was probably a small custom gun making company in Germany. Is there any way to get an approximate manufacturing date using the "Firekrupp" marking? Again my knowledge of German and Austrian firearms is mainly limited to military small arms.

Thanks everyone for the info you have been able to provide.


"Firekrupp stall" is I believe is a Krupp fluid steel mark. Good barrel. I'd have to look, but I believe the 9.3x72R is the same case as the 9.3x74R just 2mm shorter. If this is true than Hodgen makes the 9.3x74R and brass would be easy.

Do you want to shoot it or sell it? I'd obviously shoot it, but that's why many of us are here.

[Old Ironsights]

FWIU "Jaeger & Sons" was what they call a "Guild Shop". Not unlike those glass shops that make "Tiffany Style" lamps.

Guild Guns are quality, but not "high end" (Merkel/Kreighoff) guns... the kind of thing a mid-level-manager at a bank would buy.

The 9.3x72R is, as you say, a tapered cartridge. The 74R is an entirely different animal, as is the 64R. The 72R is an old BP caliber.

You are absolutely correct that the 16ga chambers are likely 2-1/2". I buy my 2.5s from Polywad.

[AkMike]

Most often the retailers commisioned guild members to build firearm and stamped their name on it. Finding historys is very difficult or impossible. Judge it on it's own merits.

The X72 is no where close to the X74. The X72 uses a 193 gn bullet and is usually a .364-4 bore. Slug it to make sure. You might be able to find some Sellier -Bellot ammo around at Graffs. Inn terms of useful power think of it as an old 38-55. Good enough for deer at under 100 yds.

[JIMinPHX]

I'm by no means an expert on drillings, but I do have a curiosity interest in them & I do look over the ones that I find at guns shows. It's hard to find anything older & of good quality for less than $1,500. The fact that you say it has silver & gold inlay tends to make me think that it may be worth a fair amount more than that to the right person. I've seen a nice older drilling in good condition, with no inlay sell for $2,750 at a gun show here in Phoenix. Those things are worth good money, but you need to find the right collector.

[Dragoon 45]

Thanks again everyone for the info. My search has not turned up anything new so far but I will keep looking.