308 Load Testing results

[CWME]

I finaly got to the range this morning to try some loads in my new 308 barrel. I also got to shoot some Saeco #315 boolits for the first time. Had a lot of fun and learned a few things.
Rifle- Savage F-Class with new 30" Mcgowen 308 win barrel. 25X scope. 50 yard testing for today.

All boolits were wearing GCs, Lyman Super Molly lube, sized .311, and air cooled WW lead. The Saeco boolit had lube in the first two grooves.

7Gr of Bullseye and #315 looks promising even with the two fliers. Nice round group minus those fliers. Best lube star I have seen to date on the muzzle with this and the 8gr load. Going to test both loads again for fun.

The 30 gr H4895 311291 load was for a different rilfe but seemed to be doing ok with the F-Class. 30 round group went into about 1.5" at 50 yards. Pretty consistant load. Pretty stout load, small lube star on the muzzle.

The 44GR 4831SC load was a shot in the dark. I have 3 pounds left over from my 6.5-284 days that I want to try to use up. I had some un burned powder left in the barrel. The grouping wasn't too bad with the Lee 155 gr AK-47 boolit.
I was hoping this boolit would fit the throat of the new 308 win but it is too fat for my liking. Closing the bolt was hard. This was a very stout load for air cooled WW. No leading but I had no lube star so I think I was close. I had some loaded with 45 grs but I am going to pull those.

[roosterf106]

I am a "Savage 99-er" and shoot all sorts of calibers in these rifles. One of them is a .308, made in 1972, with a removable magazine.
The bullet of choice in this baby seems to be the Lyman 311332...a 180 grain pointed, gascheck bullet. Believe it or not, I actually was allowed to shoot in a National Match course, against military rifles, about 15 years ago, standing, sitting and prone positions....I was able to change magazines during rapid fire phases with the four round mags, and pulled it off pretty smoothly. Out of 40 competitors, I placed 10th with my cast bullets, beating some riflemen using $2000 rifles, and buck-a-round ammo. (Man! Were they upset!)
Anyway, the load was always 21 grains of Reloader 7, and this would sometimes (not always)give me 1.5 MOA for 10 rounds.
I used Lyman's 311467 Loverin, Eagan's MX2, (both 180 grainers) and the dependable 311466 at 155 grains...but the 311332 seemed to be most consistent. My wife can shoot this rifle and this load offhand, peep sights, at a 12 inch gong at 130 yards and ring the bell 8 times out of ten.

Best wishes

rooster

[oldhickory]

The Lyman 311332 is a very good boolit. It's the most accurate boolit I have for my .30-06. 23gr. of IMR 4227 with it gives me 1.5" or smaller groups off the bench at 100yds. I'm getting there with the Lyman 311299, but it's not as easy. The 311332 seems to want to please in the accuracy dept.

[Doc Highwall]

CWME, with the SAECO #315 I lube all the grooves with Bullshops NASA lube and anneal the gas checks. I shoot these with AA5744 powder and have shot 5 shot groups at 300 yards as small as 1.6"

[CWME]

CWME, with the SAECO #315 I lube all the grooves with Bullshops NASA lube and anneal the gas checks. I shoot these with AA5744 powder and have shot 5 shot groups at 300 yards as small as 1.6"

I stopped at two grooves to keep all the lube in the neck of the case. Getting plenty of lube at the muzzle so it is working for me so far. I may try the 4831sc load with the #315 and that would be a good time to fill her up with lube. Although with the tapered design not sure how that will work. How do you do it without a layer of lube on the shank of the boolit?

I have some AA5744 and some IMR 4227 on the shelf that I am going to finally try this year. I put this rifle/barrel combo together to specifically test all of my 30 cal molds and different powders.

It will be a while before I have the $ to try the 311332. I have three NOE molds on order:smile: Good to know that it is a good design to try. Waiting for my 311365 NOE mold to come in.

I forgot to throw out a thank you to BEN for posting his Bullseye load. I intend to load some #315s without the GC and see how that goes.

[Doc Highwall]

CWME, I have a SAECO luber sizer and I go in and out of the die several times rotating the bullet making sure all the grooves are filled with just enough pressure. To get the best out of each bullet, bullet lube and load combination we have to try different things. First of all besides a safe load the first thing we want is no leading. Lube affects accuracy and we can have a bad load even though there is no leading and a lube star at the muzzle. The SAECO #315 is an excellent bullet for target shooting so the exposed lube grooves are no problem for me. I seat the bullet long and with all the grease grooves filled allows me to engage it into the rifling as it was designed. I am shooting this in a Remington 40X with a single-shot follower. My old load was 30:1 alloy sized and lubed .310" with Bullshops NASA lube with 20.5 grains of AA5744 with Remington 9-1/2 primers in Federal Gold Medal cases. I have changed the cases to Lapua 308 Palma cases with the small rifle primer and .060" flash hole. With the above load I have shot a 5 shot group at 100 yards that measured .305" ctc.

[CWME]

Well I tried filling all the grooves on the #315 and made a mess[smilie=b: I seated the ten I did over 40 gr of 4831sc for chits and giggles.

Doc I have 20 loaded up with your 20.5 gr of 5744(only 2 grooves lubed;)), based on your post I seated them out of the case more. I had the GC below the neck junction on the other loads.

Hickory I have some 315s seated over 25 gr of 4227.

I also loaded up some more with Bullseye to run those loads again.

Looks like rain and wind tomorrow, snow Monday... Not sure when I will get another break in the weather to give them a go.

So far I am impressed with my new barrel and the Saeco # 315. I can't fault the Lee boolit as it was designed for an AK. The rounds I did get to fire looked promissing.

[oldhickory]

Hickory I have some 315s seated over 25 gr of 4227.



Sometimes I wonder why I even bother with other powders in .30 bolt guns when IMR4227 has always been so easy to get accuracy from with cast boolits. That 5744 that seems to be all the rage these days is hard to come by around here for some reason, but I have tried it and got no better results than with my old stand-by.

[1Shirt]

Over the years I think I have tried just about every powder that hit the market,
UNTIL the last 8-10 years when it seems like there is a new one on the market every month. That said, for some reason, I have never bought or loaded any 4227 that I can remember. Guess I will have to get a can and give it a try on OleHickory's recommendation. I do like 5744, but have stopped buying it, since the price has gone way out of sight! Of all the new ones in the past few years, am really fond of Trail Boss, really has merit for cast.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[CWME]

Well the weather held out this morning and I got to fire some of the loads I put together last night.
The longer OAL apears to have really degraded accuracy with the Bullseye loads.

Seeing the burn rate of bullseye is similar to 700X I put together 10 of those with 8GR. That load along with the 40 Gr of 4831 look pretty good to me. These loads were seated long like the bullseye loadings. By long I seated the GC to the junction of the neck and taper.

I ran out of luck with the weather before I got to the 5744 and 4227 loads. For testing purposes I am going to make some more of those loads up with the shorter OAL that the Bullseye loads seem to like. That way when I get to test them I can fire the groups side by side for comparison.

To be fair to the Bullseye loading I cleaned the barrel after the first ten shot groups with those loads. I fired one of each as a fouler one after the other and then fired for group on the right of the target. I wanted to make sure I didn't have a fouled barrel issue causing the drop in accuracy. Doesn't apear to have made any difference at all in the grouping. The OAL was what caused the groups to open up.

[oso]

All that shootin with your rig and you ain't hit one of them quaters yet. What can I say, maybe your aim is off?

[CWME]

All that shootin with your rig and you ain't hit one of them quaters yet. What can I say, maybe your aim is off?

That quarter will pay for 11-12 gas checks! Can't be wasting $. Seriously though I keep the point of impact away from my point of sight. Shoot out your point of sight and you have nithing to aim at. 30 cal bullet hole is 3-4 times the size of that dot on the target.

[CWME]

Got to the range this afternoon to fire some more loads.

The bullseye loads and the 4831sc were fired before I found an issue with the rear scope base. I tore the rifle down to spin the 308 win barrel for this testing and in the processes of reasembling I didn't get the screws tight enough. I went through everything that came off the rifle during the barrel swap and made sure everything was tight again.

Overall I am seeing quite a lot of vertical in my groups. The 20.5gr of 5744 with 2.640 OAL load shows this the best. One shot high, next shot low, next shot high, next shot high, next shot low etc etc. I belive vertical can show up with either a bedding issue, loose action screws, or the nut pulling the trigger's bench technique. I am going with the nut pulling the trigger for now(it was cold).

Very happy with the 5744, 4227, and 700x loads.

Note: The 45 gr 4831sc was with my new NOE 311365 boolit and not the #315.
Note: With the exception of the 4227 load my rifle is showing a preference for a shorter OAL so far.

Next on the list is to run all the loads again sized to .310 instead of .311.

Not sure if this information is of any use to everyone or not. If nothing else this will be my running journal for this project. Having fun and curing a serous case of cabin fever. :lovebooli

[Doc Highwall]

Vertical can also be caused by where the forend is resting on the front bag and a front bag that is too hard. Next time you set up at the bench take note of exactly where the forearm is in contact with the front bag and when shooting try to see if the gun jumps up off the rest during recoil. If it does jump up off the rest during recoil slide the rest forward or backward 3/4" and keep doing this until you can see that the recoil is straight back. If you just slide the gun forward or backward instead of moving the rest you will be changing your shooting position causing another variable. Front rests that are too tight on the forend not allowing the gun to slide can also cause vertical stringing.

[CWME]

Good stuff Doc, thanks. I was getting some jump and moved the rest back a little. This put the center of gravity more in the middle and it helped with the jumping. I really think my rear bag to be some of the issue. It is a cheapo bunny ear job and doesn't fit the stock, at all. I have been eyeing a new one from Sinclair since I got the rifle. Oh to dream:violin:

[CWME]

NOE 311365! WINDY today

[NSP64]

CWME, was that last groups @ 50 yrds also? If so thats pretty good.
Whats the twist on your barrel?
Have you tried sizing .310 yet?
I was shooting a Husqy .270 with reduced loads of IMR4227 under 130gr Jwords and getting 1/2" groups at 100yrds before I blew it up[smilie=1: (double charge I think) so most of my loads have been with 2400 now.

[CWME]

CWME, was that last groups @ 50 yrds also? If so thats pretty good.
Whats the twist on your barrel?
Have you tried sizing .310 yet?
I was shooting a Husqy .270 with reduced loads of IMR4227 under 130gr Jwords and getting 1/2" groups at 100yrds before I blew it up[smilie=1: (double charge I think) so most of my loads have been with 2400 now.

The groups pictured were at 50 yards. I fired the same loads today at a 100 and got about the same results. I need to measure them to see. A lot less wind today as well.

10 twist, went with this so if I get the urge to shoot the 175 SMK I can. Doubt it at this point I am having so much fun with my cast. Getting a lot of astonished guys at the range who's groups are far larger with 3-5 shot groups than my 8-10 shot groups.

I was lazy the other night and instead of changing the lube sizer out to .310 I used a .309 Lee push through for the #315. I will need to change over for the 311365 though.
Didn't get to that box of ammo with today's session. Ran out of time again. This week sometime I will fire the .309 sized boolits.

Sorry to hear about your blow up. I am nervous running the pistol powders for sure. I leave the TV and Radio off while loading and am very careful.

[CWME]

Note #1: I am seating below the neck with most of these loads. I must be missing something. I must be lucky I guess. Getting good, repeatable results with my loads.

Note #2: The 311365 has not responded well to the light pistol powder charges so far. I am only up to 10gr of Bullseye so I still have a ways to go. But an early conclusion I am coming to is that this boolit needs to be driven hard. 40Gr of 4831sc is my load so far. Still need to fire more groups to see if the consistancy holds. Once I am confident with that load I am going to chrono it and then run it at 300 yards. If all is well maybe a trip to the 600 yard line this spring. Be a hoot to toss my cast boolits at 600. Pipe dream right now, back to the bench.

[CWME]

.309 shot ok but my rate of fliers went up substantially. My groups were clustered as usual but 3-4 fliers out of 20 shots. Not much wind today and my sight pictures were nice and clear today when the shots broke. Some of the fliers were 2-3" out of the groups.

Need to try .310 like I had planned. Also starting to wonder if I could shoot the #315 with the light pistol charges minus the GC. Something to try eventually.

[frank_1947]

I guess I dont get it the Savage F Class gun with 30 inch barrel will shoot 2 inch group to 3 at 600 yards, at 200 cant hardly measure group so small tents of inch, I dont understand you shooting 50 yards with that gun. what are your plans to shoot that gun.

[CWME]

I guess I dont get it the Savage F Class gun with 30 inch barrel will shoot 2 inch group to 3 at 600 yards, at 200 cant hardly measure group so small tents of inch, I dont understand you shooting 50 yards with that gun. what are your plans to shoot that gun.

Started with 6.5-284 and burned that barrel up. Changed to 6BR and got bored with the consistant one hole groups. Done the 300-600 yard shooting and had a lot of fun shooting tiny holes with jacketed bullets. Plan to do some more 300-600 yard shooting when that range dries out. 3 feet of snow on the ground with 20' snowbanks blocking the entrance.
In the interim...

Spun a 308 win barrel on to play with my cast Boolits. Started at 50 yards and have done some at 100 yards as well. Having fun with this project and taking it a step at a time and learning along the way. Getting some serious trigger time and working on my skill set as well. Should help me when I shoot F-Class with the 6BR on the rifle.

Sorry to have offended you by shooting at 50 Frank but I am having a lot of fun!

[scrapcan]

cwme,

it sounds to me like you are most successful. Having fun and learning are two of the more important things in my opinion, and you have both.

Keep up the range reports.

[frank_1947]

ok, I see just messing around, I wasnt sure what you were trying to accomplish, long as your having a good time thats what counts , have fun!

[MaxJon]

CWME, I have a SAECO luber sizer and I go in and out of the die several times rotating the bullet making sure all the grooves are filled with just enough pressure. To get the best out of each bullet, bullet lube and load combination we have to try different things. First of all besides a safe load the first thing we want is no leading. Lube affects accuracy and we can have a bad load even though there is no leading and a lube star at the muzzle. The SAECO #315 is an excellent bullet for target shooting so the exposed lube grooves are no problem for me. I seat the bullet long and with all the grease grooves filled allows me to engage it into the rifling as it was designed. I am shooting this in a Remington 40X with a single-shot follower. My old load was 30:1 alloy sized and lubed .310" with Bullshops NASA lube with 20.5 grains of AA5744 with Remington 9-1/2 primers in Federal Gold Medal cases. I have changed the cases to Lapua 308 Palma cases with the small rifle primer and .060" flash hole. With the above load I have shot a 5 shot group at 100 yards that measured .305" ctc.

I hope my single shot Omark44 shoots as well with the RCBS #82014 (180gr fp)!
BB033