new to paper patching

[craveman85]

i would like to start shooting my 45-70 with paper patch ammo to get ready for my shiloh when its done eventually. that way i can do most of my testing with a familiar rifle and not have to learn a new rifle and load techniques. how do i decide on which diameter i need. does the alloy matter as much as gg bullets? what paper should i use... i was also thinking of trying this out with breach seating techniques. any help will be greatly appreciated.

[Don McDowell]

Might want to start with a selection of bullets from 442-444 diameter. The paper mill 9lb 100% cotton onionskin paper works pretty well, costs about 35 $ a ream ordered direct from their web site. You can cut 25 patches from a sheet.
Alloy depends alot on the bullet style, but for the most part straight wheelweights should work fine for most patched bullets.
You'll want to keep a good stock of different wads on hand and try different combinations of wad columns. I have come to using a .060 fiber wad, a 1/8 inch lubed felt wad and a .030 fiber wad . Some folks use a 1/8 grease cooky.
I think the best success with the 45-70 and patched bullets comes with bullets at 1.3 inches long or a bit shorter (500 grs or less) But with your Quigley that 2 7/8 case can do a good job with bullets 1.5 and longer.
Have fun, it probably won't take you to much messing with the patched bullets before you figure out why greasers made them obsolete..:veryconfu But once you find a good load for your rifle it'll be hard to go back to the greasers...[smilie=w:

[craveman85]

is there anyplace you can buy 50 or so bullets from a specific mold to see if my rifle likes them before i dish out over 100 bucks on one.

[nicholst55]

is there anyplace you can buy 50 or so bullets from a specific mold to see if my rifle likes them before i dish out over 100 bucks on one.

Buffalo Arms Company (http://www.buffaloarms.com/) sells the bullets; others may also.

[montana_charlie]

Just make sure your brass cases are as long as the depth of your chamber.
If you don't know how deep your chamber is, model it with Cerrosafe or a pounded lead slug.
If you 'think' you know how deep the chamber is (trust me) you are probably wrong.

CM

[craveman85]

ive already done the lead pounding and my cases are good. how do i tell what diameter i need. i actually found some 9lb onion skin 100% cotton rag at a local shop. he didnt know what it was for and i got it for a 5 bucks for 100 sheets

[Don McDowell]

If you have the bore diameter, then figure what diameter bullet with 2 layers of the paper to come up to bore +-

[montana_charlie]

Take a bullet, or maybe just a piece of half inch rod...and wrap it with two layers of paper just like you were patching a bullet. Measure the naked diameter, and the patched diameter to find out how much increase the patch gives you.

Do it with dry paper and with damp paper that you let dry before measuring.

Once you know that the patch adds (say) 5 thousandths, you go for a bullet that will give you the finished diameter you are wanting.

If you want a .459" patched to groove...a .454" bullet.
If you're after a .451" patched to bore...a .446" bullet.
Make adjustments to those numbers based on how your paper acts.

A dry-wrapped patch will usually add a tiny bit more diameter than a dried damp patch will.

CM

[craveman85]

so whats better. bore diameter or groove diameter?

[montana_charlie]

so whats better. bore diameter or groove diameter?Uhh...start here.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=105842&page=2

CM

[craveman85]

ok well im going to shoot bp so then bore diameter it is. i ordered the paper jacket and im waiting on it to come in. i just like to do as much research beforehand as possible so i can do less swearing when im experimenting.

[bbqncigars]

That was some score on the paper! I found the Paper Jacket to be very helpful to me, but then I am not going to shoot black out of my Sharps Creedmoor (I know that's heresy). Mike Venturino's articles, as well as Brent Danielsons' might be of more help if you're shooting black. Good luck! I'm just starting out with this PP stuff myself, after over forty years of shooting almost everything else.

[montana_charlie]

ok well im going to shoot bp so then bore diameter it is. i ordered the paper jacket and im waiting on it to come in. i just like to do as much research beforehand as possible so i can do less swearing when im experimenting.
I sent you there so you would get some 'bore diameter' input, first (to be fair).

Now, if you really like to research as you say, here's my thread on paper patching.
It starts at a point where I am wondering if patched-to-groove will work with black powder...and goes from there.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=42529

CM

[craveman85]

ill probably start with patching to bore due to the heavy throat angle on my 45-70 (24) degrees +/- 2 degrees. which was measured by 3 different people.

[Gunlaker]

When it comes to shooting paper patch bullets with black powder, you won't find many useful books. The Paper Jacket is mostly geared toward hunting with smokeless powder, although there are a few useful tips with respect to how to actually patch bullets. There is a good book called "loading and shooting paper patched bullets" that is geared toward black powder shooting. Other than that, here and on The Shiloh board you'll find lots of good info. Shiloh used to sell a book (I believe it was written by Orville who frequents that board) and it was apparently quite good, but I think it might be out of print.

Chris.

[montana_charlie]

Shiloh used to sell a book (I believe it was written by Orville who frequents that board) and it was apparently quite good, but I think it might be out of print.
The thing about Orville is, he shoots Sharps rifles that are chambered like the originals. Therefore, patched to bore is required for his guns...so all of his information is geared in that direction. It is not quite as useful for modern chambers.
CM

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Randy Wright's book on PP is about the best there is out there. Shiloh Sells it,

Excellent resource, I have to agree with MC, I have Orville's little book.

Again some of the best PP info is on this forum and Shiloh's.

KW
The Lunger

[Don McDowell]

Craveman in all honesty there's nothing wrong with the books that have been suggested, but you'll probably get there alot quicker by taking your questions right straight to Leadpot,powderburner and Kenny. If any one of those three can't get you going right side up with the patched bullets, nobody can.