Castle Doctrine in Iowa

[Gary Carter]

Iowa is working on a Castle Doctrine. Despite the concerns, lawmakers moved the bill out of committee by a 13-9 vote and it will now move to the House floor for a vote.

The legislation has been criticized by law enforcement organizations which believe, as Iowa Sheriff’s and Deputies Association lobbyist Susan Cameron said, “this promotes escalating a situation instead of de-escalating a situation.”

The funny thing is none of the police officers I know belong to the association.

[Recluse]

As a general rule. . .

Street cops, deputies and agents are Americans and our friends.

High-ranking big-city officers, deputies and agents are control-mongers and elitists. They are not our friends.

The problem is, those same street cops, deputies and agents rarely EVER come out and speak out against their chiefs, sheriffs and SACs.

IACP is the biggest bunch of communists and wannabe-dictators in the country.

I'm glad to see Iowa finally starting to discover that there IS a set of testicles hanging down there. For most of my life, I'd been seriously wondering.

:coffee:

[bbqncigars]

Well, thanks to the Iowa Carry Organization (now Iowa Firearms Coalition) we now have uniform state-wide shall issue rather than leaving it up to each county's sheriff. Some of them are good people, but some are 'tin starred dictators with delusions of godhood'.

[arjacobson]

I wish they would pass this. With the democrats holding the power in house we will probably have to keep fighting for the castle doctrine until it gets passed. I have been keeping an eye on this issue withgreat interest..

[MtGun44]

The term 'castle doctrine' tends to be understood by gun rights activists as a "no duty
to retreat" in a public place. However, in some cases, it is used to mean "no duty to
retreat" but ONLY inside the home.

Could you please clarify whether this bill means "in public places" or "only in the home"?

I travel into Iowa fairly often and really want to be up on their laws on CCW and
self defense.

I think Recluse has the story on LEOs pretty accurate, based on my personal experience.
We have many times had one PD sending an officer in uniform, PAID, ON DUTY to testify
in subcommittee against CCW, because the SOB chief was antigun, while our officers on
our side had to be out of uniform on vacation time. Fortunately, the KS Highway Patrol
officers association (unfortunately, I forget the exact correct name) is a really sensible
organisation and contacted a number of other states that have had CCW in place for
years to see what the effects were. Based on this, they testified in favor of CCW in KS,
a significant and MUCH appreciated boost.

Thanks.

Bill

[arjacobson]

in public places.. basically stand your ground...

[Bret4207]

IME most people you seek the higher ranks and particularly those who work the political system at higher ranks are almost, if not exclusively, anti-gun Democrat types. I have no idea why this is. It seems logical there would be an almost equal distribution of conservatives and liberals, but it doesn't appear to work out that way.

I'll be entirely non-PC here, if it's a female it's ALWAYS the case.

[Boz330]

We have the castle doctrine law in KY. But before it if I would have caught the SOB that broke into my new house 2 weeks after we moved in, he would have been dead meat law or no law. Requiring someone to retreat in their own home is ridiculous BS.

Bob

[sundog]

We've been listening to this whining, blood-in-streets, drivel since the middle 80s when Florida debated, then enacted 19(87), the first modern concealed carry legislation. State by state, it's been happening with CCW, castle doctrine, and stand your ground legislation. Can anyone point to a TREND in violence directly attributed to these legislative efforts? No.

The general population of law abiding citizens are safer today than they were 25 years ago. The socialist elite nay sayers will continue their diatribe, regardless of facts.

[songdog53]

Have Castle Doctrine in Mississippi and working out fine, course those breaking in on people don't happen to agree or those trying to threaten you in places you have right to be don't like it either. So having Castle Doctrine with no retreat works for honest folks that are carrying.

[felix]

Be absolutely sure of what you think about the judges in your area.......

[MtGun44]

Bret,

I was enjoying shooting the Garand a number of years ago and an older club member that
I didn't know came up to chat. We had a nice talk and he passed on some good Garand
loading info, I was very new to Garands. In our discussion, it somehow came out that
his daughter was a police officer. I asked where she worked, and he named my small
suburban city, and said that she was chief of police. I brightened up and said something
about that it is good to have good people in the force. He said something like "Well, you
wouldn't like her. She is a liberal and very anti-gun." I didn't have much to say about
that, but it does fit your comments above.

Bill

[MtGun44]

Felix -

Excellent point!

Knowing your state laws, or the laws of a state you are visiting is critical.

For example, in South Carolina it is perfectly legal to shoot at a fleeing felon while
protecting property from theft, and the law says something like "even if the force used
may cause the death of the person."

In KS, you would be in deep trouble with the facts (as presented in the article, which may
be wrong) in the Arkansas shooting. In SC, pat on the back and send you home.

Bill

[Charley]

Case currently being tried here involves a homeowner's probable ignorance of the "no duty to retreat" doctrine, or "Castle Law". he was awakened one night by his wife, when his doorknob was rattled. his wife said, "there's someone in the house!". He armed himself, went to investigate, and chased a suspect into the street. Homeowner challanged suspect, suspect turned, and homeowner shot him 5 times, killing him. Not clear, from testimony or evidence if suspect was inside the home. Suspect had a high BAC, and was visiting/staying with a relative one street over. Thought is he mistakenly tried to enter the house, thinking it was the relative's...the houses were very similar.
Know the law, know your rights, and know the "mood of the courts" in your area. Homeowner is possibly going to be convicted of manslaughter, will be sued for wrongful death. Chasing someone down after the fact isn't a good plan.

[klcarroll]

Case currently being tried here involves a homeowner's probable ignorance of the "no duty to retreat" doctrine, or "Castle Law". he was awakened one night by his wife, when his doorknob was rattled. his wife said, "there's someone in the house!". He armed himself, went to investigate, and chased a suspect into the street. Homeowner challanged suspect, suspect turned, and homeowner shot him 5 times, killing him. Not clear, from testimony or evidence if suspect was inside the home. Suspect had a high BAC, and was visiting/staying with a relative one street over. Thought is he mistakenly tried to enter the house, thinking it was the relative's...the houses were very similar.
Know the law, know your rights, and know the "mood of the courts" in your area. Homeowner is possibly going to be convicted of manslaughter, will be sued for wrongful death. Chasing someone down after the fact isn't a good plan.


@ Charlie

This is an excellent case for everyone to keep in mind! Not only does "pursuit after the fact" make you appear to be aggressive in the eyes of the court; ......But how would you feel if you killed a man and later found out that his only crime was being too drunk to tell one house from another??? (.....Thinking back to my first marriage, I can well understand how someone might find themselves in that intoxicated condition!!)

Kent

[Gary Carter]

[smilie=b:Anti-Gun Senator Shoots Intruder
www.citizens4freedom.com/Articles/tabid/1387/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/3956/Anti-Gun-Senator-Shoots-Intruder.aspx
Another one that thinks only the elite should defend themselves I guess.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Where is the equal justice under the law? How can one act performed in one state get you a pat on the back and the other get you 20 years? What would Marshall Dillon have done if it was a horse thief?

[Bret4207]

Marshall Dillion was a mythical TV character, Miss Kitty was butt ugly too. Whats that got to do with anything? State laws vary, just like the Constitution and BoR say they can. To argue an equal justice issue brings forth the possibility that a ruling would come down siding with NYC, Chicago or Boston, IOW- the strictest law that would end up hurting us most.

Gotta think these things through. What we as a group see as plain old common sense and justice is looked at as sheer stupidity and unreasonable redneck ignorance by others. As a general rule the higher up the educational scale and more urban the person you are speaking with the more likely that is to be true. It's not because of their education or residency, it's because of their training and indoctrination. If they were truly educated they'd be familiar with the reasoning and thoughts behind the Constitution and BoR and WHY each word was put in those documents and more importantly what wasn't put in them.

Be careful of what you wish for, you might get it.

[klcarroll]

Bret, ....My hat is off to you!!

Well Said!!!!!!

Kent

[rmcc]

As you can see by my post count, I am fairly new here so please bear with me. I live in Iowa, have all my life (except for 4 yrs in CO) and have followed the, for lack of a better phrase, the downward trend of gun owner and hunter's rights in this state. It used to be arguable that whichever political party was in power swayed the fortunes of our rights as gun owners and hunters. No more. It has become an economical agenda on the hunting issue and a "media spotlight" on gun ownership and the said owners rights.
If you have followed current events here, we now have "Shall" issue instead of at discretion of 99 individual sheriffs. Some were lenient and responsible, some had "God" syndrome, before shall issue became law 1/1/11. Gun sales and applications for CCW permits have skyrocketed. Now, anyone with common sense would see that as the will of the majority. Not here with the media. The law has been in effect 2 months and almost everyday in the paper there is some hysteria about how there is going to be a great influx of gun related crimes and accidents. Statistically this may play out but not for the reasons they, the media, tout!!
1) You are increasing the number of guns sold
2) There is the potential for more gun related accidents (way too soon to even think about compiling that statistic!!)
3) With more guns in the general populace there could be more guns stolen and used by criminals

But you never hear about enforcing the laws that are all ready in place.
That the criminals who use guns did not obtain them legally anyway.
Crimes of passion involving guns (reason being, gun is easier to say than> knife, brick, rock, car, poison, club,etc....)

I can't speak for everyone, just my opinion that in 2012, we as a nation of gun owners had better wake up and vote. The NRA has an A and F list that is very comprehensive. We support the NRA to compile this list, it is time we use it. A parting thought. Combine all the hunting/fishing licenses sold in the US, divide by half, now divide that by 50. By those numbers all voting the same way, I would not have written this!!

Rich

[starmac]

We need to be careful with the nra list, isn't harry reid on the A list. The way I understand the way they come up with the a to f is the number of times that particular canidate has voted for or against issues involving guns.

A new canidate has no standing, but may in fact be more of a gun rights advocate as someone on the A list.

[rmcc]

I guess I should have qualified it with to use as a guide line. I am not one to follow blindly as I am sure there are exceptions. We just need to turn this election back to our favor.

[MtGun44]

Understand that the NRA list is a gun vote list ONLY.

I worked very closely with a pretty liberal Democrat state legislator when we were getting
CCW passed in KS. She and I agreed not to "get into" other issues, because we did NOT
agree on most issue, but she was the person who, because she was a liberal Democrat,
made it a BUNCH easier for us to get CCW a fair hearing in KS, so we are and will be
friendly on that basis. We just agree to not talk about the parts where we might get
mad at each other. Her husband is a cop, too. I think that is where the gun friendly
attitude came from in her case.

I have worked with a handful of Democrats over the years that were good on the gun issue,
but we let the rest of it alone. Plus, some of our biggest CCW opponents were liberal
RINO Republicans here in KS.

Bill

[smokemjoe]

After I went to the CCW school I almost got up and left, That envader has to get into your bedroom and harm you before you can protect yourself. If 3 of them meet you on the side walk you have to cross the street to flee from them 1 st.Then they have to stick a knive in you or shoot you before you can do anything. Then your going to jail and get a lawyer for 20,000 to get out of all this. Thas Iowa laws. The only one that made it sound about having it was the game warden. Thank-god they dont have to chase me no- more.

[Echo]

IME most people you seek the higher ranks and particularly those who work the political system at higher ranks are almost, if not exclusively, anti-gun Democrat types. I have no idea why this is. It seems logical there would be an almost equal distribution of conservatives and liberals, but it doesn't appear to work out that way.

I'll be entirely non-PC here, if it's a female it's ALWAYS the case.

Conservatives want to DO something. Liberals want to BE something.

[Suo Gan]

That's great, I hope it pans out for I-O-WAY!! Now let the beatings begin and tell me how stupid I am for living in California!

[Suo Gan]

Understand that the NRA list is a gun vote list ONLY.

I worked very closely with a pretty liberal Democrat state legislator when we were getting
CCW passed in KS. She and I agreed not to "get into" other issues, because we did NOT
agree on most issue, but she was the person who, because she was a liberal Democrat,
made it a BUNCH easier for us to get CCW a fair hearing in KS, so we are and will be
friendly on that basis. We just agree to not talk about the parts where we might get
mad at each other. Her husband is a cop, too. I think that is where the gun friendly
attitude came from in her case.

I have worked with a handful of Democrats over the years that were good on the gun issue,
but we let the rest of it alone. Plus, some of our biggest CCW opponents were liberal
RINO Republicans here in KS.

Bill


Bill, Kinda in that same vain. My old gunsmith's wife was the biggest lib this side of the Mississip. He said they didn't talk about it. She drove a caddy and lived in a nice house built on guns.

[exile]

I am praying that they will enact castle doctrine in Nebraska this year. Rendering a person defenseless in their own home (as well as anyplace else) is criminal. Governor Heineman says he will sign it into law if it crosses his desk. He signed the concealed carry law several years ago.

exile

[Bret4207]

Conservatives want to DO something. Liberals want to BE something.

That's an interest take on it. I'd agree to an extent. I'd want to add that libs want to make others DO something, what the libs want to be exact.

[Charley]

Update on the Texas trial I mentioned, judge declared a mistrial yesterday due to an idiot juror searching on his/her smartphone for the definitions of murder vs manslaughter. More money for the defendant to cough up for representation.
One statement the defendant made on the stand was that he didn't REMEMBER pulling the trigger, the "gun just fired". Not the brightest statement he could make under oath. Just having a firearm and a fuzzy doctrine isn't enough, you need knowledge and forethought. Texas isn't exactly a hotbed of major antigun activity, either. This city sees quite a few justifiable uses of deadly force per year. This guy screwed the pooch.


As for liberals wanting to BE something, and conservatives wanting to DO something, not the way I see it at all.
Liberals FEEL, conservatives THINK.

[klcarroll]

.........One statement the defendant made on the stand was that he didn't REMEMBER pulling the trigger, the "gun just fired".......



GREAT! .......Absolutely Great!! ........Another idiot that our critics can point at when they introduce future legislation!

I have been under fire, and twice in my life I have had to draw my personal weapon to prevent a criminal assault: ........There are no "blackout periods" in my memory because I was properly trained and mentally prepared! (....As ANYONE taking the precaution of carrying a weapon should be!)

Cases like this let the Media portray us as Bozos!

Kent