Dipper and pot question

[BEN BODEY]

I live in the Pacific Northwest so the weather is generally against any outside endever like smelting lead or casting bullets. It makes sense to me that the best way to go about this is to do as much as possible while the sun shines.

I have a turkey fryer with a large stainless steal pot. This leads to my first question. How big is too big? The manager of the local tire distributer will sell wheel weights to me for $.35 a pound. In reality that translates into 136 Lbs for $32.40. I ask how often we could do this, and he indicated about twice a month. In about nine months the rain will stop, the sun may shine, and I can go to work. I think you get the picture.

Would it work to set up in front of the garage door with a fan behind me to blow the fumes out?

What about using a dippper and the pot I already have to get started. Seems to me it might be easier to learn that way than with a bottom pour. Could I dip enough lead for 6 cavity mould in 45 caliber? I'm thinking RCBS dipper.

So give me your input. I'm a slow learner, and time is of the essense.

[Hunter]

Well I just got started in casting but I will offer my limited experience on smelting and casting. I smelt and cast just outside my out building with a fan blowing away from me to blow the smoke and fumes down range.
I am using the top pour method now through a Lyman pot though I do have a Lee bottom pour I will be trying out soon. Keep the dipper and molds hot and you should have no trouble. Remember to reflux the melted ingots in your production pot before casting.

[dagamore]

When i was living in Federal Way (just south of Seattle) WA. i would do most of my casting out side, but i had a covered deck, and would use clamps to hold up some plywood (ok it was OSB) to block any cross wind, and a few cheap bathroom filters kept the fumes down in the temp room. hope this helps.

[NVcurmudgeon]

Ben, the "dipper and the pot I already have" will be more than adequate to get started. Some of us never give up the dipper. I find the constant dribble and frequent clogging of bottom pour pots I have used to be intolerable. Also, repeated trials have convinced me that I can cast more GOOD boolits per hour dipping, even though bottom pour is faster. YMMV, I know that I am in the minority. I do all casting and smelting in the garage, with two man doors open on the windward side and the big door open to leeward. In Nevada, air circulation is never a problem! Five years or so ago, I was tested for lead after decades of casting. Results were normal, so I quit worrying about it. Most of my casting is done in the dead of winter when there is nothing better to do. It is a win-win situation. Wearing lots of clothes is needed for the weather and beneficial for protection. I just recently smelted about 350 lb. of WW. As this represented three years accumulation, it was easy to deal with using my twelve lb. Potter ladle casting pot. As long as the WW keep coming in at the rate of +/- 100 lb. a year, spply is exceeding demand by a small margin. Only you can answer "how big is too big." For my needs, there is over six years of ingots in reserve, so I am not too worried about running out. If the zinc moster, or the EPA, ever manage to lock up all the lead WW in the world, which I don't believe, I could break down and buy all the metal I need.

[MGySgt]

Ben,

I am like NVcurmudgeon - Where I dip all my casting. I use a new Lyman or RCBS (have both) and pour 2 cavities at a time, Pour the front 2, refil the ladel and pour the middle 2, refil and pour the last 2. I hold the mould at a slight angle to keep the run over away from the holes I havent filled yet.

If you are using a 350 grain or less mould you can pour 3 at a time. My 358477 Lyman 4 banger gets all 4 filled at one time.

This does require a lot of heat, I cast at about 830 degrees.

Works for me!

Drew

[fatnhappy]

Ben, the "dipper and the pot I already have" will be more than adequate to get started. Some of us never give up the dipper. I find the constant dribble and frequent clogging of bottom pour pots I have used to be intolerable. Also, repeated trials have convinced me that I can cast more GOOD boolits per hour dipping, even though bottom pour is faster. YMMV, I know that I am in the minority. I do all casting and smelting in the garage, with two man doors open on the windward side and the big door open to leeward.


Which is exactly how I do it too. My house is oriented north to south so when I open the front and back garage doors I get a comforting amount of cross breeze. Not that i'm worried about lead poisoning, but the fumes would tick my wife off to no end. I also use a propane fired plumbers furnace and the hazards of carbon monoxide shouldn't be ignored. I cast in the garage too, and like NVcurmudgeon I still dipper cast. I have an assortment of rowell ladles courtesy of my father's time in the plumbers and steamfitters union.

BTW, I have a woodburning stove in the garage, it's the bee's knees for prewarming moulds and ingots.

[montana_charlie]

I have a turkey fryer with a large stainless steal pot. This leads to my first question. How big is too big?
If that is the pot which came with the fryer, it's probably 'too big' when the question is looked at from various angles.

Judging from the fryer pots I've seen, I am not certain they would keep from splitting open if filled to the top with lead.

If not filled to the top, it looks difficult to work lead out of them, because they are so deep.

And finally, the weight of lead that the volume would accomodate might crush the fryer unit.

So, an eight or twelve-quart cast iron pot might be a better vessel to put on the fire.
CM

[imashooter2]

I'm a long time dipper caster, but lately I've been trying to convert to the bottom pour because it is just so dang convenient. I'm getting better at it, but I still get a better product with a dipper. In my experience with a Lyman dipper, it is pour 3, dip again and pour the last 3. Experiment with your mold to see if it likes to be filled front to back or back to front.

Nothing wrong with setting up in the garage, just make sure that there is nothing flammable overhead... flux, rubber and trash can all flare up on occasion and you don't want to burn down the building.

Montana_charlie has sound advice on the pot. You do not want to be standing in a puddle of molten metal.

[BEN BODEY]

If that is the pot which came with the fryer, it's probably 'too big' when the question is looked at from various angles.

Judging from the fryer pots I've seen, I am not certain they would keep from splitting open if filled to the top with lead.

If not filled to the top, it looks difficult to work lead out of them, because they are so deep.

And finally, the weight of lead that the volume would accomodate might crush the fryer unit.

So, an eight or twelve-quart cast iron pot might be a better vessel to put on the fire.
CM
My pot is 9.5 deep and 14 wide stainless steel.

[mooman76]

You want a different pot for your first melt of dirty lead vs. clean lead for casting. They run cheap at garage sales or thrift stores. Your pot is a little big but you don't have to fill it up all the way. I have a 1 qt. pot for bullets and a 2 qt. for smelting.I don't know how big your RCBS dipper is but I would guess it isn't big enough for a 6 banger. It is frustrating trying to keep your lead moving fast enough with a small dipper to keep the mould hot enough to make good bullets. If you can't find a suitible dipper or substitute I mad one by cutting down a metal juice can and fatening it to a piece of broom handel.

[imashooter2]

My pot is 9.5 deep and 14 wide stainless steel.

That pot will hold over 500 pounds of lead.

[woody1]

That pot will hold over 500 pounds of lead.

Ben, I think we've got two different things going here. First - Smelting and second - casting boolits. IMO your turkey fryer is dandy for smelting WW into ingots for casting. I use one, but I believe it's too much of a good thing for casting. Mebe yours is different than mine but I'd be looking for another source of heat (like less and more controllable) for casting. I'm a dipper guy also and I use a barbecue side burner and a two quart pot for casting. My pot is about 4" high and 6" in diameter. It holds a good 40 # of alloy but leaving about an inch of freeboard and leaving the last inch or so in the pot 'cause it's hard to dip out, gives me about 20# usable melt which is just fine. I've also used a single burner Coleman gas stove which works dandy and actually is better when it's real cold because it'll put out more heat than propane. You can also use a multiple burner Coleman camp stove but your grill may sag if the pot is too big. For smelting WW I use the turkey fryer and an old propane tank with the top 1/3 or so cut off. [If you're going to cut a tank you must first remove the valve and fill it with water] Regards, Woody

[Wayne Smith]

I use a two burner Coleman propane stove, Lyman 20 lb cast iron pot, and can fill a Lee 6 Cavity 200 gr. mold with one loading of my 1/2 lb Rowell ladel. Usually use the Lyman dipper, but the Rowell works well for the six cavity molds. I've had that pot full and the support rods red hot and nothing's sagged yet. I've also used, and still use, a 1 qt stainless steel kitchen pot for lead. Got ww in the Lyman, pure lead in the kitchen pot, and use the Lyman for smelting. Will probably get a turkey fryer and cast iron pot if I fall into a bunch of ww all at once.

[shooter575]

Gee-wiz, another dipper here.I have two 20 lb pots the underused one is the
leak o matic! I use a LP plumbers pot with a iron pot to smelt.But in the past I have used wood,coal and a white gas coleman stove.They all work.For a lazy type the LP is the way to go.I like to smelt outside,but I have done it in my shop with the overhead doors open.I cast in a room off that shop.I installed a old kitchen hood vent over my bench.Works like a champ.

[Bret4207]

I use a cast iron dutch oven on a gasoline plumbers furnace to "smelt" the WW down. A $12.00 "Lodge" brand dutch oven from any of the outdoor marts works fine. I smelt in front of the garage doors. That gas furnace throws a flame about 2 feet long at full blast and it's not an inside toy. Fumes? Humbug. We're outside so why worry.

I cast from a stainless steel measuring cup 5" wide and 7" high. I think it's supposed to be a 6 or 8 cup unit, but it might be bigger. I used to use a Coleman stove and Lyman pot and it worked fiine. I got the SS pot becasue the little Lyman emptied too fast. Then I picked up an $8.00 hot plate at Wally World. Coupled with the SS pot I have a real nice setup now. The pot holds 20-30 lbs of alloy and I can hold within 10-15 degrees with the hot plate. Melt time is a bit longer than with the stove, but a propane torch helps if I'm impatient.

I've found I get MUCH less dross with the SS pot. I figure the cast pots rusts under the lead, the same as the "leave the last boolit in the mould " idea, mine rusted. My dross accumulation is maybe 10% of what it used to be.

I've used bottom pours- Lee's and an old Saeco or Lyman. Thye look great, they seem like they'd be the answer to all my problems. Thing is I just can't see, much less "feel" what I'm doing. So I'm a dipper man, and I'll probably go to my grave that way.

[MGySgt]

Coleman Stove and heavy pots -

I used a Coleman stove for years to smelt WW, but the grill would get red hot and start to warp.

So I took the grill off and cut 2 pieces of angle iron (bed rail) and used that for the grill to set the pot on. I have had over 90 pounds of WW in that pot with out any problems at all.

FWIW

Drew

[crazy mark]

Ben,
Go to your local Harbor Freight store and pick up one of their cast iron dutch oven pots. They will hold about 40 lbs of WW easily. I cast on non-rainy days of which there are many up here in the NW USA. Pacific NW sounds like there is a pacific NE around here or a Pacific SE which there isn't. Mark

[montana_charlie]

I cast on non-rainy days of which there are many up here in the NW USA. Pacific NW sounds like there is a pacific NE around here or a Pacific SE which there isn't.
Semantics can be fun...

I guess most of us learn how to refer to various areas of the country when we are in elementary school, but the classifications only seem to include North, South, East, West, and (maybe) Midwest.
Then television takes over.
Sure, you may learn many fine geographical details in high school or higher in the system, but the TV guy doing the national weather segment uses the common terms that most come to recognize.

That is where I picked up 'Pacific Northwest' as a geographically descriptive term. For some reason, Montana (though never Wyoming) gets included in that category, by many weathermen...although it is just as likely to be grouped with the 'Northern Plains' or simply 'Out West'.
So, being very logically-minded (if not a deep thinker) I now apply 'Northwest' to the four-state area furthest up and left on the map...and reserve 'Pacific Northwest' for those two states right on the Pacific coast.
Living in Montana, I guess I am in the 'NE Northwest'...and Mark, living in the southernmost of the two coastal northwestern states, should think of himself as a 'Pacific Northwest Southerner'.

Waddayathink?

Logically and obviously, 'Pacific SE' must be reserved for someplace in Baja.
CM

[crazy mark]

Nope Pacific SW would be Baja. Pacific SE would be Arizona/New Mexico. California would slide off into the pacific.....

[robertbank]

Man I just got to chime in . From my perspective. I live in the Pacific NW. Washington/Oregon would have to be the Pacific W and California, Baja area the Pacific SW.

I can just hear the keyboards humming in Alaska!

Take Care

Bob

[montana_charlie]

Nope Pacific SW would be Baja.
I was thinking about the east coast of the Baja peninsula as the right place to call the Pacific SE since the water touching it is from that ocean.
CM

[ron brooks]

Man, do i feel dumb. All this time i thought it was the Pacific North WET.:)

Ron

[MT Gianni]

That leaves Illinois, Indiana, Ohio and the rest as the mid states certainly not the mid-west. The NE stays the same and the beltway to NY as the far east. Have we not offended anyone yet?