loading for the 9mm luger

[atr]

I have not loaded for this cartridge, but would like to start
a couple of questions...
for a seating die what would you recommend ? I have seen the taper crimp dies advertised and wonder if that is what is necessary....OR could I just use my seating die for my 38 special and not roll crimp.

does the 9mm even need a crimp?
thanks guys
atr

[Wally]

You'll need a 9mm seater die as I don't think the 9mm case will go deep enough into the .38 Spl seater die...if you bell the case mouth (which almost always has to be done) you will need a TC die to remove the bell on the case mouth.

Reloading the 9mm Luger with cast bullets is a bit more challenging than with other calibers. Most guns require oversized bullets, you then need to worry if they will chamber.

[9.3X62AL]

Older-series RCBS seater dies for the 9mm and 45 ACP came with a roll-crimp shoulder. This worked fine--just a slight touch of the crimp shoulder straightened out the case mouth flare, and that's all that's really needed.

More recently, autopistol die sets have included a seater die with taper-crimping capability. As far as cast boolits are concerned, I believe they are FROM THE DEVIL. It is next to impossible to set a taper crimp into a cast boolit WHILE THE BOOLIT IS BEING SEATED without significantly plowing up boolit metal in the process. Also, even the harder boolit metals have minimal "springback", and squeezing down a taper crimp is likely to reduce boolit diameter--if not already ably assisted by the too-small expander spuds included in most die sets. Cartridge overall length will vary, as well. IN A NUMBER OF WAYS, MODERN DIE SETS ASSUME THE USE OF JACKETED BULLETS, to the detriment of cast boolit reloaders and shooters.

With cast boolits, any taper crimping should be done as a seperate die step after the boolit is seated.

1) Use a dedicated taper crimp-only die. OR

2) Back the seater stem off, and use the taper crimp seater as a single purpose crimp die after seating boolits. OR

3) Remove the decapping assembly from the sizer die, and set the die to just "kiss" the case mouth end after seating the boolits. This will straighten the case mouth flare nicely.

[Saint]

Also remember that 9mm cartridges head space off of the case mouth so you don't want a roll crimp and you don't want to over crimp either, a 9mm crimp should never bite into the bullet, this is why 9mm bullets don't have a cannelure. When loading 9mm I have found that the bullet tends to be slightly larger than the case so at times the neck tension is so high compared to other cases that I find crimping to be unnecessary. If you look at most factory 9mm ammo and your reloads you will notice that they bulge around the bullet and this is normal. I tend to do things a bit different though, for example I don't flare the case at all, since the slight taper at the bottom of most bullets is usually enough to get it to start without a problem. This does result in the occasional damaged case but we are talking 1 in maybe ever 200 rounds at most. I am by no means an expert so as with anything read online always get a second opinion if something doesn't sound right.

[rmcc]

Use a separate taper crimp die !! Sound investment that saves a lot of frustration. Set it so at case mouth dimension is between .378 -.380, this works for my 9's on cast and jacketed. Good luck!!

[thegreatdane]

just finished loading 300 9mms tonight. I do flare, since I'm using plain based 126gn Lee TCs and need the flare to accept the boolit. I also taper crimp separately from the seating. This ensures there's no shaving of precious thousandths. Its rather easy in the 5-hole Hornady press. My last die is the Lee FCD - and yes my pulled dummies still measure .356.

There's no doubt the little 9 requires careful attention to detail, but it's worth it. And the brass is everywhere.

[Artful]

Yes, Taper crimp in seperate operation from seating - also you may find there are brass deviation in dimensions so might want to sort your brass and adjust your dies accordingly.

[bhn22]

A moderate taper crimp is essential. Many, if not most 9mms won't feed without it. Do not use a LEE Factory Crimp die! As mentioned above, crimp in a separate station. 9mm is one of the fussier calibers to load, but everything goes pretty well once you get used to its little quirks.

[NuJudge]

Can I suggest that you consider a Dillon seat die? They can be disassembled and cleaned without losing adjustment.

Our cast bullets are always shedding some bullet lubricant where we don't want it, and when they shed lube in the seating die, it results in the bullet seating incrementally deeper. Over time bullets will get seated a lot deeper, resulting in much higher pressures.

I try to use undersize full length size dies, to try to maximize the force that the bullet is held with. This prevents the bullet being pushed back into the case during the violence of feeding.

[thegreatdane]

Everyone rails against the Lee FCD. Silly. Used appropriately, it is an excellent piece of equipment.

[MtGun44]

For many the FCD ruins their ammo, for others it works fine.
This is true of many issues in reloading. "Used appropriately" is a vague, but important
term. For lots of newbies, ditching the FCD has been their path to good ammo.

Each gun is a thing unto itself. Making sweeping claims beyond - "for this gun (or cartidge),
here is what I have found to work" is usually not too helpful, since there are a lot
of exceptions. If the same gun, same caliber, same mold, same everything is being
compared - it USUALLY is helpful. Every single tiny change has the possibility of invalidating
the results.

Personally, I can't quite understand what issue the pistol FCD addresses that is not more
properly addressed elsewhere in the reloading process. Looks to be a bandaid fix at best,
and one that has caused a lot of problems for member here.

Bill

[thegreatdane]

in my experience, the FCD works wonders on roll crimp straight cased ammo. I've found it most useful in .45 and .357.

The boolit-swage accusations of the FCD come from one thing - over crimping. This can be alleviated by cal-ing the case mouth to spec.

[03lover]

There have been many good suggestions here.

I need to mention my shooting buddy and I have been loading the 9mm Luger with cast, plated and jacketed bullets for some time.

When accuracy is desired, sort brass by Manufacturer, then length when resized. The brass varies in thickness between the different manufacturers and has considerable affect on how the different bullets and reloading dies will work. Always test your 9mm reloads for bullet retention by measuring the over all length then pressing the bullet nose against your loading bench or some solid object, the thumb test. Press on the base with your thumb and your off hand until it hurts then remeasure the over all length again. If the bullet moves farther into the case, retention is not good enough and those loads will cause bullets to be deep seated during the loading cycle and that will cause pressures to go crazy, often way too high maybe even KABOOM. This problem is often the cause of very erratic performance and some primers cratered, flattened or both and other not.

Not all manufacturers dies act the same. Sizing dies can vary enough to be over working the brass or not working it enough. Crimping dies vary from being perfect for some bullets and brass to a point of ruining a good thing. Be willing to try other brands, especially if you can borrow them or pick used dies up cheap at a gun show

One reply mentioned the 9mm reloading die manufacturers produce dies designed for jacketed bullets. Jacketed bullets are typically .355" in diameter. This is true. Most cast bullets for 9mm will work best at .356 to .3565" diameter. Standard dies usually size small enough so the expander will work with bullets at .355" and be too tight with larger diameter cast bullets.

We ran into a nightmare with good bullet retention and cast bullets as well as jacketed. We traced the problem to considerable variation in brass thickness. We found our once fired R-P to be the thickest and FC to be the thinest. Winchester fell in between. I have had the best luck loading 9mm cast using the FC brass, sized with a RCBS carbide die, RCBS steel die or a Hornady Titanium Nitride die. These dies size to a smaller diameter than my others. I use an expander that I turned down so it will bell but not expand. The FC brass is thin enough that it will except my .3565" diameter cast bullets without undersizing the bullets, yet provides good bullet retention, preventing bullet set-back during the loading cycle in my semi-auto's. Most FC brass reloaded with typical dies will not provide good bullet retention with jacketed bullet at .355" diameter. In fact, quite often the bullet can be pressed in easily with my thumb. Worthless for use in a semi-auto. R-P brass works fine.

The R-P brass treated the same will under-size the cast bullets enough to cause leading and poor accuracy. I should note here that lead bullets in 9mm brass that are no more than 115 to 125 grain in weight are usually not a problem with normal seating depths. Deep seating these or using heavier longer bullets will result in the bullet being seated deep enough that the base of the bullet will be undersized by the inside taper where the brass get thicker. It is a good idea to seat a couple of bullets in prepared brass, then pull them and measure the diameter at the base and front. You may be very surprised by what you see.

Taper crimp should be used to remove the bell of the case mouth and no more than .001" to .002" smaller at the case mouth. Too much taper crimp can mess up the headspace of the cartridge and can actually reduce bullet retention. The brass will spring back more than the lead. We found the Lee Taper Crimp Dies have too little taper and tend to under size cast and plated bullets. The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Dies tend to undersize bullets that are more than .355" in diameter. Don't use these with bullets over .355" in diameter or the results will be disappointing. These dies should be watched carefully. Pull some bullets to assure yourself your die and bullet combination is not causing a problem. Poor accuracy will result.

Finally, like many other calibers, the brass will vary like crazy in length. Usually too short. When looking for accuracy loads, best accuracy is usually had with 9mm brass that is .750" in length. Most 9mm brass will be shorter and many shooting tests have shown shorter or longer can cause accuracy to fall off. Brass of the same length although shorter, will perform better than random lengths.

I had to sort through several thousand rounds of once fired brass, RESIZED, to come up with several hundred at .750" to use for testing best accuracy loads.

Good luck with your 9mm reloading. It can be a challenge when searching for accuracy and rewarding when accuracy is obtained.

[zxcvbob]

I use a Lee 9mm 3-die set. I seat and crimp at the same time on cast bullets with no problem; but the crimp is rather minimal. The bullet is held in place by neck tension, not the crimp.

[pakmc]

I'm using CFE powder in misc. 9mm range brass. and the Lee 124gr bullet.(mine come out at 131gr's with pure lead) at 4 grs' of CFE the guns will barely spit out the brass. at 4.2gr.s the bullets are key holing. but my CZ champion and my CZ 75"D" like the 4.2 load. My bersa thunder 9 and my telefonie(EAA witness, kinda)(old CZ clone) don't like that load at all.

[35remington]

The "bullet swage accusations" against the FCD have much less to do with over crimping than with the carbide ring at the bottom of the die. If you're gonna try to defend the use of a particular die, at least have a grasp on what is causing problems so you know what to defend. The comment was completely off the mark.

Whether bullet diameter is affected depends on starting lead bullet diameter and the cartridge used.

It is also true that whatever the Lee FCD is "fixing" is better fixed another way. If you cannot "do without" the FCD you really need someone to show you how to address the problem correctly. Functional ammo was loaded successfully for many years before its introduction, and that is still true today.

[Tackleberry41]

The FCD really does vary in what it works with. I have no issues with one in 45 colt, cast or jacketed. But something like 9mm the FCD only seems to work with jacketed as the sizing collar swages a cast down when run thru it.

I switched to the NOE expanders, the one Lee provides really only works with jacketed. The one for a 9mm is just a small nub that only expands maybe 1/4 in of the case, works fine with hard jacketed. But will swage a cast down trying to seat it. The factory expander was doing the same thing with some 357 I was working on. The NOE expands much more preventing such swaging.

[skeeter2]

I'm using a Lee 9 mm speed die to load. I have no problems. It's a rather neat invention. One die does everything.

[FergusonTO35]

I find that the Lee taper crimp and seat die works just fine for most boolits sized to .356-.357. Most of the problems I've encountered come from trying to crimp it to death like a magnum revolver cartridge. Crimp just a little past flattening out the mouth flare and you're in good shape. I do have a separate crimp die for experimentation with boolits not typically used in this cartridge. I will start crimping separately when I eventually upgrade to a progressive.

[35remington]

Overcrimping affects only the area of the bullet immediately adjacent to the crimp.' Depending upon bullet diameter and cartridge, the carbide ring in the die may undersize the entire bullet diameter over its entire bearing surface,which as a problem is much much worse.

[Lloyd Smale]

I use factory crimp dies for semi auto pistols. To me function is more important then accuracy. If it doesn't go bang every time and feed a new round in the chamber without flaw its no good to me. Also I have multiple guns and 9, 40, 10 and 45 and I need ALL my ammo to run in ALL my guns. Ive used the fcd for years for this and have many times tested tested accuracy and never saw where it hurt a thing in a gun that's best loads are 2-3 inch at 25 yards. You might see it in a 1911 with a load you worked up to shoot 1/2 inch groups in competition but not in a black gun. I think most of the problem comes from guys cranking them down to far. You don't need a lot of crimp in a semi auto.