.38 Short Colt

[MtGun44]

I found an amazing deal on a very good condition Colt Police Positive .38,
which is apparently in .38 Short Colt. I got 75 rds of brass for $12 at another
vendor, so that is a start. It needs an ejector rod head, but for $100, I figured
there was no way to get hurt on it. So far it seems to be in fine shape.

Am I correct in thinking that the .38 Short Colt is the same cartridge as the
.38 S&W (not Special) ? The brass is headstamped "38 SH COLT" and "38 SHORT".

Bill

[BerdanIII]

Nope, different cartridge. The .38 New Police is Colt's version of the .38 S&W. You gotta love marketing. Colt used to advertise (waaaaaay back) that you could also use .38 Long and Short Colts or the .38 Government in their then-new Army Special chambered in .38 Special. The .38 S&W uses a 0.360" bullet, while the .38 Short Colt probably takes a 0.357 - 0.358" bullet.

Sounds like you've got a neat little revolver. What's the caliber stamp on the barrel read?

[9.3X62AL]

Per Barnes in "Cartridges of the World", the 38 Short Colt caliber had an outside-lubricated 130 grain bullet running 770 FPS. The 38 Long Colt apparently used an inside-lubed .357" bullet at the same velocity. The Long's case diameter was very close to that of the 38 Special, .377" vs. .379" in the Special. I can't find specs for the 38 Short Colt in COTW.

Does the cylinder show a chamber "step", or is it one diameter its entire length? The single-diameter spec = use of outside lubed bullet. 22 LR revolver chambers are made in this way. Presence of the step might indicate original or aftermarket chambering in 38 S&W. The 38 S&W casing is wider than 38 Special--.386" vs .379".

Colt often--but not always--used the term "38 New Police" to describe their revolvers made for the 38 S&W caliber.

HTH.

[Bret4207]

Yup, the New Police used a FN boolit as opposed to Smiths RN in both 32 and 38 if memory serves. I've seen 38 SC in the current green and yellow Remington at several shops in the past few years. If you come up totally dry let me know Bill and I'll make some calls.

Took a look at Phil Sharpes reloading book, he says the SC is an outside lubricated 125-130 gr boolit. 2.5 Bullseye was recommended for 745 fps. Google directs me tot he Brian Enos forum where people tell of using the 38SC in 357 revolvers for positive extraction and using 38 Special dies to load them.

[Harry O]

If it is actually chambered for .38 Short Colt, the barrel will be 0.375" groove diameter. It will NOT be 0.357". In addition, the chambers in the cylinder will be bored straight through -- there will NOT be a reduced diameter "throat" in the front of the cylinder.

The case is the same diameter as a .38 Special (the length is shorter), but .38 Special type bullets in handloads will give horrible accuracy. As said by others, it was designed for a heel-base 0.375" OD bullet. It can also use a hollow-base 0.357" bullet. However, bullets that are 0.357" OD with a plain-base will NOT be accurate.

The 1892 series DA Colts are chambered for the .38 Long Colt. They have the large barrel and the straight-through chambers. I have shot Federal target wadcutters (with hollow-bases) in it and got reasonable (considering the difference in diameter between the barrel and the bullet) accuracy with them. The Colt PP is newer (probably with a little bit stronger steel), but it is in a smaller frame. The target wadcutters should work in it, too, but that call is up to you.

[MtGun44]

Thanks for all the info! Still trying to figure out the cartridge.

OK, the cyl definitely has a stepped end of the chamber. I gaged the throats and they
are a tight .359. Not slugged the bore yet. I dropped a .38 Short Colt round into the
cyl (with the proprietor's permission) at the show and it seated all the way.

I found a box of SH Colt ammo at the show, but for $33 I decided against it, esp since
there is no caliber marking, per se and I am unsure what is the correct ammo.
It just says "Colt Police Positive .38" with the 'Police' over the 'Positive' but the
Colt and 38 in line.

Just cleaned it up and it is in at least very good condition, original walnut checkered
Colt nickeled medallion grips. Still can't believe the price, was braced for finding some
major problems, so far not finding any. Bore is like a mirror as are the cylinders.

More measuring. Chamber step is .75" ahead of rear cyl face. So, maybe this is NOT
.38 Short Colt, but maybe .38 Colt. My Sh Colt brass is .675 to .680 to the base. The correct
brass must be about .775 to .785 , guessing at a .025 to .035 rim thickness. .38 Spl
is WAY short of chambering, like .3 inch short - didn't measure it.

OK, did some research; the case length for .38 S&W is .775, so this has to be the
cartridge, apparently Colt called it ".38 Colt New Police". I may need a new mold,
altho the throats are tight enough at .359 that .358 to .359, which I get from several
.38/.357 molds should work. IIRC, you cannot use .38 Spl dies to load .38 S&W, so
I guess I'm going to be in the market for some dies.

Anybody need some .38 Short Colt brass?? :-)

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

38 Long Colt case length is 1.03", per Barnes/COTW. Sounds like a 38 S&W to me. Diameter of charge holes (.386" cartridge case vs. .377") would confirm it.

I have a Police Positive example in this caliber, and it is a little jewel. It has the same .359" throats that you describe, grooves are .358". Starline makes brass, RCBS has a steel Cowboy Die Set with 2 expander widths, and my Lyman #358477 SWC drops boolits @ .360" for sizing to .359" (standard Lyman H&I die diameter, too).

I and the small critters I target with this little jewel call it The Kit Gun From Hell.

[MtGun44]

Al,

Sounds good to me. I'll probably order the brass from Starline, I really love their
brass. May get a Lee carbide die set. I have 358477, of course, probably large enough
to run at .359.

Cyl is locked solidly with the trigger pulled, everything inside the side plate was nice,
cleaned it a bit and greased with an aircraft synthetic grease. Very smooth.
I expect good accuracy from this one, not going to hot load the little jewel. Oh, it
is a 5" bbl.

Bill

[NickSS]

I have a Police positive and it is marked like yours and it is in 38 colt new Police (38 S&W) From what was said above you do not have one in 38 short colt but could have one in either long colt or more likely 38 S&W before you spend money on brass and dies measure the chamber depth and if it is less than an inch you have one in 38 S&W. Mine is a dandy shooter that used to belong to a Seattle Dog Catcher back nearly 100 years ago. I got it from the guy who inherited it from the dog catchers daughter sho I traded a TC Patriot pistol to for it.

[Bret4207]

Bill, good for you! I like the 38 S+W just fine. It makes a dandy field gun. My revolver is a Smith Perfected Model. I only wish either I had eagle eyes or the gun had real sights!

[MtGun44]

I only have two Colt revolvers, always wanted to try another, but was put off by
high prices and terrible condition. I finally lucked out here, other than the missing
ejector head, the gun is in really nice condition and tight mechanically. The Anaconda
and Cobra are nice guns but not really the ideal low cost plinkers. This one should
be fun to shoot and cheap to feed.

Bret - the sights on this one are pretty good, fairly wide front (~1/8" thick) and decent
rear notch width, plus it is serrated on the top, which should cut reflection. I think that
the 5 bbl should be ideal for my purposes.

Nick - thanks, that tends to verify what my measurements are telling me, that it has
to be .38 Colt New Police, apparently just a different boolit shape from the .38 S&W.
I wonder if that was just visually distinguishing for marketing reaons or if they actually
needed a slightly shorter round for their cylinder length?

Now to assemble the equipment to make some ammo. I'm thinking that the Lee 105 SWC
should be a good one for this gun, if the as cast diam is big enough.

Bill