Trying out my new round ball mold

[The Double D]

First pass I don't think the mold was hot enough.

http://www.fototime.com/4955F04915D660B/standard.jpg

Warmed up everything and switched to zinc and it seem to work a lot better.

http://www.fototime.com/C9586709E498AA9/standard.jpg

[44man]

are you a gonna user fer woodchucks?

[The Double D]

Well that has been suggested. But maybe I won't. These are balls for my 6 Pounder Coehorn mortar. The tube and mould are out in Idaho right now. I will be picking then up next week. I'll post pictures of the mould when I get back

I will then decide if I want to profile the tube in the Federal Pattern or the Confederate pattern and build the base.

I am also going to have to get set up to cast zinc. Any one here have any experience with that?

[Greg5278]

Try using Zinc alloy Zamak #3 for best fill.The melting is 718-787 degrees F. It seems to cast well, but you need a separate setup for Zinc. You don't want to contaminate your alloy with lead. The two metals don't mix well. I tried Zamak in my 12 gauge and it worked well. They are very hard when cast, so the mold should not be oversize. Good luck Greg S

[44man]

Darn, you guys have all the fun! I want one!

[The Double D]

Picked up my 6PDR mould, cast some Zinc balls and fired them out into the Idaho desert

http://www.fototime.com/DE96B8D9401D468/standard.jpg
The little mould is a Lyman 457125. I quess you could call the big one a 3.580RB or if you used the diameter/weight convention a 3.58042000

Used a weed burner and an old cast iron pot for melting zinc anodes.

http://www.fototime.com/E8186D90F0AE0C9/standard.jpg

Here's what I got with 50 lbs of zinc anodes.

http://www.fototime.com/1BA163854D55340/standard.jpg

I will need to build some handles and a pour from the bottom pot for this operation. That big mould gets too hot to handle with just gloves. It may need quide pins also. It looks like it will cast a nice ball as soon as I get the learning curve done.

I sat the mortar barrel on the ground and propped it up with some sandbags at about a 45 degree angle. The lower edge of the tube was buried about an inch into the ground. After firing 6 rounds the lower edge of the 6 1/2 inch tube was buried about 6 inches in the ground.

We attached a streamer with a cup hook to the 3/4 ball and shoot it that way...boring

http://www.fototime.com/E8B919B578C81D6/standard.jpg

500 grs of Cannon Grade Blackpowder sends these 6 PDR zinc balls 108 and 112 yards. 500 grs of Fg sends them 218 and 224 yards. Fg is definitely more energetic. I would be reluctant to use finer.

You definitely recover slugs shooting these things. In fact we shot the same ball 6 times.

[waksupi]

Don't forget old carburators for projectiles.
you can use finer granulations, just reduce them proportunately. We did some testing, starting with very light loads. There was a point where they just barely cleared the muzzle, and landed a few feet from the mortar. Keep adding ten grains at a time, and you will find the point that mass is overcome by momentum, and after that point, you can adjust your loads fairly accurately for different ranges.

[Buckshot]

................Double D, you got some big ol shiney balls! Looks like a blast! What fun! One thing about them being lighter then lead is I guess they don't bury themselves very deep. That cannon shoot in Michigan had the morter guys digging 3-4 feet to retrieve the balls!

Gotta rig up a steady big enough to hold a 4.5" dia piece of stock, so I can get the bore done on my pop can morter! Bore is supposed to be 2.639 or 2.369", I forget now. A guy who has one says 150grs of 1Fg will send'em outta sight.

...............Buckshot

[The Double D]

Something to keep in mind building your pop can mortar is that black powder cannons and mortars had what is called windage. This was defined as the difference between the bore size and the projectile size and is 1/40th of the bore diameter. This helped keep pressures down and facilitated loading fouled bores.

My Mortar has a 6.5 OD tube and started out as a pop can mortar. After the first shot, I could not get the can down the tube without a complete bore cleaning. I have had it opened up to 6 PDr dimensions. The bore is now 3.67 and the ball is 3.58 diameter. no problems loading

Here is some information on bore sizes and windage from the Blackpowder Mortar and Cannon forum (http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=41634)


Computing bore size:
To compute the proper bore diameter for a given object to be used as a cannon projectile:

Measure the diameter of your perspective projectile. Divide diameter by 39. Multiply the result by 40.

Bore Size of commonly used items for cannon projectiles:
A bowling ball gun with proper windage would need a minimum bore of 8.815 inch.
Circumference of a bowling ball. Max 27.002 inches. 27.002 xi .31831 = 8.595 maximum diameter of a bowling . (8.595/39)x40= 8.815 inches http://www.topendsports.com/sport/tenpin/dimensions.htm

A golf ball gun with proper windage would need a minimum bore of 1.723 inch.
The diameter of a golf ball is 1.68 inch. . (1.68/39)x40=1.723
http://www.learnaboutgolf.com/beginner/balltypes.html

A popcan mortar with proper windage needs a bore of 2.667.
A Diet Coke can is 2.6 inches in diameter. (2.6/39)x40=2.667

Now that I have shared these little tidbits of knowledge I hope someone will share the secrets of homecasting Zinc cannon balls.

I need to build a furnace and pot.

[wills]

http://www.tyeetackle.com/weightmolds.html

[KCSO]

We found that rockcrete was cheaper and shot just as well. We enlarged the sprue hole and shoot concrete balls. Painted black you cant tell the diference in looks and they combine cheap with easier on the equipment.

[Jumptrap]

What a can of worms to open up!

First, where would I get a big ol' barl to make me a mortar? That is, for cheap?

Second, where did that giant gonad mould come from? I bet they give them away too.

And where do you get zinc anodes? What were they used for to begin with?

Lastly, have you ever painted a ball white or some other color so you could see it any better in flight?

[StarMetal]

Zinc anodes are used in things like hotwater heaters to take the corrosion effect rather then the tank itself. They usually just screw in the side like a pipeplug, but extend inside. That's just one application.

Joe

[Buckshot]

...........Double D, thanks a bunch for that info.

..............Buckshot

[waksupi]

What a can of worms to open up!
Lastly, have you ever painted a ball white or some other color so you could see it any better in flight?

Mark, this is a subject we recently covered on the Muzzleloader Magazine forum. I will post pertinent parts of the discussion, to give you some tips on the tracer rounds. As yopu can see, we discuss subjects there, just as seriously as they are taken on this forum.


I know this sounds too weird, but I have been using tracers in my .62 for long range shooting. I shoot at 250 yards with my smoothbore, tracers help me with the range. I make them thus... Simply paint your balls (projectiles)with dayglow airplane spray paint and shoot with the sun at your back. A red/orange fire ball will streak to your target. hitting the target is another thing.

Good idea! But I've heard that dayglo inhibits accuracy when applied to lead balls

Rollie Welcher and I used Crisco packed into the base of our .58 cal. Minie balls years ago to achieve the tracer effect. The Crisco captures black powder and saturates it. When it fires, the powder laden Crisco burns with visible light on a gray day. We could get 200 yards or so before the tracer burnt itself out. Bookie

I drill a small hole in the front of the ball, and put in a small eye hook. I then take a length of string, and attach it to the ball. I then tie the other end of the string to a cats' tail. It's best if the cat doesn't notice you doing this. At the shot, the cat is clearly visible in flight, and gives a peculiar rwor-rwor-rwor sound as it flys through the air backwards. Keep the velocity down, or you may end up with a cat with no tail, although you can still see the tail going through the air, although you don't getthe sound effects. The only draw back is, it seems cats don't care to be repeat screaming meemies, and generally head for the high timber when they see a firearm. Always figured them for kinda nervous type animals.

Ric - HAW - HAW - HAW !! Thas a great one !! Ist ther a weight limit on th cats tha ya can use ??

Well, Rupe, there are of course small bore, and large bore cats. Kittens work well for the small bores, generic barn cats are good for medium bores, while you can use those big honkin' grey striped toms for big bores. If shooting cannons, I recommend a medium size mountain lion

I can't stand cats.

Didn't they use to use an anti-personnel cannon load during earlier times when they would put a cannonball with a chain in one cannon, with the other end of the chain being another cannon ball loaded into an adjacent cannon? Seems they would tie a cat to each end of the chain where it came out of the barrel. These being cannon, they would use medium sized mountain lions, cat-a-mounts, panthers, and sometimes cats smuggled in from another continent.

It put the fear into them infantry units. Imagine being marching in a line of infantry dodgin' canister, roundshot and grape, when suddenly two mountain lions come swirling bolo-like through the air screamin' like hell-fire.

terrble...just terrble

Sparks

Sparks, that sounds like an interesting projectile idea. I would be somewhat concerned about the one cannon going off before the other, as it did with the cannon balls. There would be a lot of fangs and claws freewheeling through the gun crew. I'd recruit from the spectators if I was going to try that one. Maybe a fella should tie some cat tails together and throw them over the clothes line, just to see if the weight matches up properly. I wonder whatever would you lube them with?

Haw!!Haw!! Ric!! I imagine they'd probably self lube iffen ye was to try an stuff em down the barrel!!Haww!! Haw!!!!! You guys are killin me!!!

Whadaya mean, Bentflint? I'm perfectly serious. It's time to go, where no man has gone before!

yep. What has followed "the record" down through history is that when one cannon was a bit slow, the gun crew would be wiped out. Dis-incentive enough, and quite easily believed. But I suspect the REAL REASON they quit using that load was the difficulty in obtaining lions panthers and other big cats. Can't ya hear 'em?

"Hey, I had to load the cat last time, can I shoot the slow cannon now?"

"Heck no! I had to catch the cats last time, and I can only see outta one eye now and my right arm ain't worth a toot...I get the slow cannon this time!"

Exactly, Steve.
I believe I will contact the local paint ball club around here, I bet they could catch some lions for us to experiment with. They are not answering thier phone at the time. They have been developing the new sport of paint balling grizzly bears. Three teams have went out, but we haven't heard back from them for the last three weeks. But I'm sure they could catch the big cats.

[The Double D]

What a can of worms to open up!

First, where would I get a big ol' barl to make me a mortar? That is, for cheap?

Scrap yard, horse trading. The barrel cost me an old Chinese 98 Mauser.


Second, where did that giant gonad mould come from? I bet they give them away too.
More horse trading and some cash


And where do you get zinc anodes? What were they used for to begin with?

EBay, $1 a lb. Pennies are are an alternate source when zinc goes over a $1.80 a lb. These anodes were military surples use on dock, boat and other structures in saltwater.



Lastly, have you ever painted a ball white or some other color so you could see it any better in flight?

Nope can see it just fine as is.


We found that rockcrete was cheaper and shot just as well. We enlarged the sprue hole and shoot concrete balls. Painted black you cant tell the diference in looks and they combine cheap with easier on the equipment.

Didn't work real good for me they tended to break up in flight, and didn't fly very true and weren't very accurate. I was also concern about abrading the bore so I stopped using them. Decided to not use this method with the new gun I am building.


http://www.tyeetackle.com/weightmolds.html They don't come in true Cannon Pounder diameters. Nice looking moulds however.

Anybody got any ideas on build a furnace or pot for melting zinc?

[carpetman]

Starmetal Joe---Where does one find a hot water heater? Why does someone heat hot water?

[Oldfeller]

It's always good to know that wherever I wind up sleeping that when I inevitably wake up in the middle of the night I can dial in here and find some invigorating and intellegent late night conversation about some off-the-wall topic or another to brighten up my mood.

Ric and Carpet, shooting appropriately sized cats out of cannons. Whirrling chain shot with a cat screeching and scratching on either end of the whirl, terrorizing the opposing infantry with extended claws on all four paws.

Ah, some things never change .......

<g>

Oldfeller

[Oldfeller]

Carpetman Ray,

My wife has a hot water heater that sits right next to the sink.

She will run the hot water out of the spigot for best part of a minute until it is going as hot as it can get, then she fills up a ceramic cup with hot water and then sticks it in this metal and glass box for 30 seconds to heat up the hot water right up to the boiling point.

Then she inserts a bag into the cup and jogs it up and down a few time to taint the water. Women seem to do the strangest things, don't they?

I think she calls the little bag a "tea bag" and the box a "microwave", but I haven't been home lately to be all current on these strange female rituals.

I can remember using her techique a time or two in the past -- but I dump black crystals into my hot water heatered stuff and call it "instant coffee".

Oldfeller

[carpetman]

Oldfeller,that indeed would be a hot water heater. But it doesn't have anodes. The way I understand my Bunn coffemaker to work is that it has two stainless steel tanks. The water gets heated very quickly I think using 1500 watts and then is maintained hot with only 35 watts. When fresh water is poured in,it displaces the already hot water and you have coffee brewing instantaneously(probably spelled that wrong but it means right then. It doesn't mean presently,as presently means about to happen and it's happening already). Never cared for instant coffee,but I like this fast brew the Bunn does.

[KCSO]

You may have been using the wrong stuff as we never had a ball break up in flight and if we didn't hit anything too hard we could re use them. I will check the sack of mix and get the right brand. As to bore wear, after 25 rounds I noticed so light polishing, but no measurable wear, but we shot ours with a centering base wad made from scrap 1/4" ply and masking tape.

Since I have a Fur Trade cannon I don't shoot cats I use Ground squirrels. If you use a corn trail they load themselves and the fur keeps the bore clean between shots. They are also good for shooting AT cats.

[Scrounger]

Enough with the cats in chains and being shot out of canons; CarpetMan is going to end up with a 'woodie' and run amok at the San Angelo Sheep Pens.. [smilie=l:

[waksupi]

Since I have a Fur Trade cannon I don't shoot cats I use Ground squirrels. If you use a corn trail they load themselves and the fur keeps the bore clean between shots. They are also good for shooting AT cats.

Jim, YOU are an innovator!