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View Full Version : '94 Winchester 38-55 Range Report...



doubs43
02-24-2011, 12:43 PM
... and a lesson learned.

With 50 cartridges and new sights on my Oliver Winchester Commemorative rifle, I headed for the range yesterday afternoon. I'd mounted a Pedersoli globe front sight with aperture and a Lyman 66A rear peep to get the best accuracy with ancient eyes.

Load: 248 grain Lyman boolits sized to .377" in WW cases. 2.5 grains WW-231 and 34 grains of WC-860. This load has proven accurate in my Hi-Wall.

I posted two targets at 108 yards: a 12" & an 8" bullseye. Guessing at a proper sight setting, the first shot was low but on paper. Adjusting the Lyman sight was easy enough and I soon had the boolits in the center of the 12" bull. However, I'd get the odd flier out of the group.... waaay out! Strange. I'd weighed the boolits, keeping them all within 247.0 ~ 248.0 grains. Changing to the 8" bull, the pattern continued.

In an effort to improve the groups, I changed the front sight insert to a post & ball. More sight adjustments followed...... and so did the odd fliers. Could I be the victim of boolits that were too small?

Posting the same two types of targets at 150 yards, I adjusted my sights and was soon in the middle of the larger bullseye. Then I fired a group on the 8" bull and it was pretty darn good: 5 shots in a flat 3 inches with 4 in 2 1/16 inches.

A friend shot up the rest of my cartridges so it was time to leave the range.

The lesson? When I got home, I was considering a different front sight insert when I discovered that the two I'd been using were as loose as a goose in the globe!! Mystified, I checked the other Pedersoli globe sights I have and all inserts were tight. It was then I realized that the newest globe was actually different than the others... and so were the inserts!! The new globe has a ridge on top to provide the thickness needed for a screw to hold the securing bar in place. The other ones I have use a rivet to hold the bar and the ridge isn't there. The inserts I used were for the thin globes. They are too short and weren't being held tightly, flopping around with the recoil of each shot! The inserts that came with the new globe have an additional thickness at the top. Assuming they were the same as the ones I already had was my mistake.

Will the groups improve with a tight fitting sight insert? I'm betting that the fliers will go away and the groups will tighten. I hope to give it another try tomorrow.

Throckmorton
02-24-2011, 01:44 PM
It would take very little 'flopping around' to open those grooups up a LOT. I'm sure that a good tight sight will improve things.

I will be loading for a very old Model 94 in that caliber soon,looking forward to ringing some plates with it.
From the browsing I"ve been doing those boolits are on the small side for that caliber,is it what fits your bore? just curious.

doubs43
02-24-2011, 02:01 PM
It would take very little 'flopping around' to open those grooups up a LOT. I'm sure that a good tight sight will improve things.

I will be loading for a very old Model 94 in that caliber soon,looking forward to ringing some plates with it.
From the browsing I"ve been doing those boolits are on the small side for that caliber,is it what fits your bore? just curious.

The .377" diameter seems to work well but I may try .378" & .379" later. The Lyman boolits drop from the mold at .3795". I also will try my 318 grain RCBS boolit later.

My Winchester Hi-Wall, made by Miroku, shoots the RCBS boolit sized at .377" very accurately and according to Davidsons has a groove diameter of .376". As well as it does with the .377" boolits, I tend to believe them.

However, the older guns in 38-55 seem to have larger bores and many shooters have to go to .379" or .380" for best accuracy. I would think that your older rifle would fall into that category. A friend ordered a new 38-55 barrel from a well-known and respected maker. When he had trouble finding an accurate load, he contacted them and they said the barrel was made to original specs... meaning a groove diameter of .379". His boolits had been undersized and when he sized them larger, his accuracy improved greatly.

missionary5155
02-25-2011, 06:25 AM
Good morning
Check the throat diameter.. this is usually larger than bore. If you get the throat filled with a fat boolit your rifle will shoot much better and more consistent. Do not be surprised to find a .380 or larger throat.

northmn
02-25-2011, 12:16 PM
A fellow shooter had a Uberti 38-55 that would no even stabilize 377 bullets. He found 375 jacketed bullets would tumble. His rifle was at 381. I got my 38-55 Marlin back from him through another trade and am going to try larger cast in it. Loose soghts can give fits but I wonder if the old 38-55 ammo was not loaded to hedge against the tight bores when rifle barrels had looser tolerances?

DP

HPT
02-26-2011, 12:35 AM
Hi doubs 43,

I have same gun (Oliver Winchester) & bullet (Lyman .377 dia) - this is what I got at 50 yds (notice 1 hole completely sideways)

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z41/VonN_photos/IMG_1614.jpg

Then I switched to the Lee 250 gr bullet (380 dia) and now I get good groups

doubs43
02-26-2011, 09:57 PM
I shot the '94 Winchester again today. The front sight insert is now secure and I shot 2 1/2 ~ 3 inch 5 shot groups at 150 yards.

HPT, while I sized the boolits I shot today to .378", none of the .377" boolits I shot the other day gave the slightest indication of tumbling. They all cut clean holes and so did my boolits today. It's possible, I suppose, that the barrels varied quite a bit in groove diameter. My serial number is less than 4,000 and I understand they made almost 20,000 of the O. Winchester rifles. Maybe the early ones were made better than nearer the end of production. I really can't say.