45 Colt resizing question

[bbs70]

I presently have a USFA rodeo in 45 colt.
In the last 2 years I've also had a Ruger New Vaquero and a Blackhawk both in 45.

I've noticed that with these guns the casings almost drop from the cylinders after firing with hardly and effort.
Especially the Rodeo.

I'm using a set of Lee carbide dies for the 45 lc.

This morning I got curious and measured several resized casings and they came to .469 in dia.
Before resizing they measured .479.
From what I saw in the manual the od of the casing is suppose to be .480.

.479 before resizing
.469 after sizing.
.480 is what book says.

Could this be a bad sizing die or am I just being too picky?
I'm more concerned about case life when resizing them down .010 each time I deprime/resize them.

[Char-Gar]

I cannot speak to the USFA Rodeo, but the Ruger in a problem child. Ruger makes these things with charge holes that are quite large. Cases resized with current production (carbide) dies, take them way down. The result is the loaded rounds wallow around in the chambers and accuracy often suffers. If one uses a carbide die, the best idea is to size the cases just far enough to hold the bullet. Rounds loaded like this may or may not chamber in other sixguns.

I have an older RCBS 1960s steel sizing die and ammo produced with this die is of proper dimensions and can't be distinguished from factory ammo.

I don't think you Lee die is any worse offender than those produced these days by other makers. A good idea is to shop Ebay and come up with an older steel sizing die.

[ktw]

I have three 45 Colt sizer dies, each of which sizes the cases to a different dimension.

Brand .................... Outside diameter at neck after sizing
RCBS (Carbide) ...... .4615"
Lyman (Carbide) .... .4645"
Lyman 310 MR ....... .4720"

I have three 45 Colt firearms with widely different chamber dimensions

Brand .................... Outside diameter at neck after shooting
FA 97 ..................... .4770"
Win94 Carbine ........ .4795"
USFA SAA ................ haven't measured yet, big, around 4790" or maybe a bit less.


Ideal approach is to find a die set that most closely matches your chamber. Failing that (and its not easy to do), use Chargar's method of only sizing the minimum case length as is necessary to hold the bullet securely, then use a neck expander (like the Lyman M die) to open it back up to the dimension you need it for cast bullet loads.

-ktw

[btroj]

Both my Ruger and Marlin have chambers slightly smaller than a railway tunnel. I use a Hornady sizer on the them and they get sized why more than needed. Case life isn't too bad, or at least not bad enough to deter me from using this die. I get 15 or so loads on a case so I just live with it.
The loaded rounds do have an odd look. The slight wasp waist is strange.

Brad

[DCM]

Now this is just a crazy thought, ... but has anyone tried just "neck sizing" their revolver brass??

Adjusting the sizing die so that it only resizes the bullet area to hold the bullet.

Like I said "crazy thought", but now I have to put my money where my mouth is and try it.

[white eagle]

I cannot speak to the USFA Rodeo, but the Ruger in a problem child. Ruger makes these things with charge holes that are quite large. Cases resized with current production (carbide) dies, take them way down. The result is the loaded rounds wallow around in the chambers and accuracy often suffers. If one uses a carbide die, the best idea is to size the cases just far enough to hold the bullet. Rounds loaded like this may or may not chamber in other sixguns.

I have an older RCBS 1960s steel sizing die and ammo produced with this die is of proper dimensions and can't be distinguished from factory ammo.

I don't think you Lee die is any worse offender than those produced these days by other makers. A good idea is to shop Ebay and come up with an older steel sizing die.

Did you happen to read this ? :bigsmyl2:

[btroj]

I have read of many people sizing just enough case length to hold the bullet. I have not tried it but might just have to sometime. I just hope it allows cases to fit both my revolver and rifle.

Brsd

[Char-Gar]

As stated before, Ruger sixgun chambers are oversize. Gravity being what it is, the loaded round rests in the bottom of the chamber and the bullet starts off life into the chambers and barrel at an angle. The result is bad or mediocre accuracy.

A case that is just neck sized he held more in alignment as the body of the case is expanded to fit the chamber and if a Keith type bullet is used, the forward driving band is in the chamber holding the front of the round in alignment.

Ruger chambers are frequently not round. So cases fired and so loaded may not fit in other revolvers (even other Rugers) or rifles.

In spite of the downsides, neck sizing 45 Colt cases is frequently the best way to get decent accuracy from Ruger sixguns.

[wiljen]

Most carbide sizers have a ring at the base that pretty much prevents neck-size only unless they only enter the die by the first quarter inch of the case.



Now this is just a crazy thought, ... but has anyone tried just "neck sizing" their revolver brass??

Adjusting the sizing die so that it only resizes the bullet area to hold the bullet.

Like I said "crazy thought", but now I have to put my money where my mouth is and try it.

[Bulletlube]

With neck sizing just make sure you know which gun they came from.

[Harter66]

I thought every one on a quest for lilbitty 6 gun groups did neck size only . That's my method for my Security6,1894CB,and S&W 38 as well as the RBH in Colts. I use the RCBS Universal decapper ,with about 6-7 custom rods to open necks and 1 that bells. 1 for Mongo/410 from 303/30-40 brass.

I figured if the round started closer to centered it would hit closer kind of like neck only in a rifle. I think matching up the throats did way more good but I've Colts brass that has been loaded probably 25 times and 357 that are into the teens.

I am fortunate to have the 2 38/357s and the 38 that will share brass w/o issue too.

[Char-Gar]

Wiljen... What ring are you talking about? Carbide size dies are just steel dies with a carbide insert at the bottom. If this what you are talking about? It doesn't prevent you from running the cases in as far as the bottom of the bullet and them removing the cases. I have an RCBS carbide sizer in 45 Colt, and I have used it to neck size several thousand cases.

[1hole]

I quite useing carbide sizers for my revolver ammo years ago, cases last much longer.

There is no benefit to jamming handgun cases as deeply into the die as they can go. (And rarely so for rifle cases.)

[ktw]

It doesn't prevent you from running the cases in as far as the bottom of the bullet and them removing the cases. I have an RCBS carbide sizer in 45 Colt, and I have used it to neck size several thousand cases.

The only hitch here is that some dies don't let you run out the decapping pin far enough to decap at the same time as sizing only a short distance of the case. This varies across die sets, the cartridge and how little of the case you are trying to size. You may have to size and decap in separate steps.

-ktw

[DCM]

So I'm not as crazy as the wife thinks, just late again.

Yes I can see a need for using a decapping die on some cases.

[wiljen]

That ring in the base is what I am talking about.


Wiljen... What ring are you talking about? Carbide size dies are just steel dies with a carbide insert at the bottom. If this what you are talking about? It doesn't prevent you from running the cases in as far as the bottom of the bullet and them removing the cases. I have an RCBS carbide sizer in 45 Colt, and I have used it to neck size several thousand cases.

[MtGun44]

A steel die is not necessarily the same as a carbide die. Carbide dies are only able to
size a straight case. The older steel dies can have a bit of taper, making the rear of the case
fit the rear of the cylinder better.

Bill

[wiljen]

Based on Chargar's statement, I tried this yesterday using my Hornady carbide dies and it did not work for neck sizing. Must be a difference in die manufacturers or perhaps mine are out of spec but it would not size the case adequately to provide enough neck tension to load unless cases were run fully into the die.

I guess I'm in the market for another set of 45 Colt dies although I don't load much for it so could probably live with the old lyman steel die set I have.

[Swede44mag]

I have a set of Dillon Precision .357 Carbide pistol dies. When I tried to size with the carbide die it would make the case too small. I looked the dimensions in several reloading manuals then called Dillon Precision they said send the die back they would regrind it to the proper dimension. They didn't argue with me in any way I also sent several brass that was sized to small and the dimension that the die should be ground to. I had the die back in a few days it is the correct size now. Maybe you need to contact the company you bought your dies from and tell them what is wrong with them.

I also have Dillon Precision dies in .45colt and 9mm.

[Char-Gar]

my carbide 45 Colt FL die is an RCBS. But as stated, I have gone to a 60s RCBS steel FL die and problems have gone away. You can find them on Ebay, for way less than a new carbide die and lubing cases isn't all that much of a hassle. We did it for years before somebody thunk up the carbide insert diet.

If you have a steel die, then stick with it.

[geargnasher]

Based on Chargar's statement, I tried this yesterday using my Hornady carbide dies and it did not work for neck sizing. Must be a difference in die manufacturers or perhaps mine are out of spec but it would not size the case adequately to provide enough neck tension to load unless cases were run fully into the die.

I guess I'm in the market for another set of 45 Colt dies although I don't load much for it so could probably live with the old lyman steel die set I have.

I use a Lee Carbide die for my .45 Colts, and neck size for the Rugers. I don't understand what the major malfunction is with your Hornady dies. Does your Hornady sizer not have a carbide ring at the bottom? I just run my case in far enough to size the "neck" part since the ring swages the case to about .467" after springback. I installed a decapping rod from the Lee Universal decapping die (it's longer) and set it to decap and neck-size at the same time. I use another Lee Carbide die for the rifles and Open Tops which have smaller chambers, and I FL size for most of them.

If the Hornady carbide sizing dies have a full-length, tapered insert that's the right dimension, I'd love to get my hands on one.

Gear

[btroj]

I just sized a starling case in my Hornady die.. Sized about 1/2 inch of case in carbide (Hornady actually used Titanium nitride) and case mouth measured .468. Easily tight enough to give good bullet tension.
My Hornady dies are marked as 45 ACP/AR/win/lc. That covers about anything 45 cal I would say.
Have never used them to neck size but I have not checked to verify that cases from Ruger and marlin will interchange.

Bad

[wiljen]

Gear, it is a ring and like btroj said it is titanium nitride rather than carbide. Mine is one of the early dies that was for 45LC and not the combo die btroj references. I'm not even certain they still make just a 45 LC die. I called Hornady this afternoon and was told to send them back in and they would fix em so they are heading that way in the morning when I can get them to the PO.

[Biggfoot44]

Actually my friend will be loading for a Beretta Stampede . The issue is putting a . case into steel die that is .469 at the BASE . Unknown what at the neck, because he hasn't been able to get all the way ( or far enough to contact decapping pin ) .

If it were myself , I'd be decapping with universal decapper, and playing with neck resizing . But I'm trying to teach him the conventional methods first .

So to rephrase my inquiry : What are the Base diameters of various current production .45Colt sizing dies ?

[Love Life]

My lee carbide sizing die is .469. Bought it 2 years ago. I use it after about 4 reloads as I shoot multiple 45 colt revolvers and that brings all the brass back to fit in all guns.

I have a Lyman steel die that I use most of the time for sizing. It sizes the bases to .475. This gives good fit in a Colt SAA and a Uberti clone, and a slip fit into the Ruger NMV.

[Outpost75]

I use RCBS .455 MkII steel dies for loading .45 ACP, .455 and .45 Colt for my S&W and Colt M1917, Colt M1909 and New Service .455 revolvers. These rounds also fit in my two Rugers and fired brass from the Ruger when FL sized in the .455 steel die and loaded enters the older Colts and S&Ws. No issues interchanging brass. Of course I DO lubricate the cases, using mineral oil, USP on a stamp pad and rolling them. Die pins .476" cylindrical at opening for a depth of 0.5," tapering to .470" at 0.80" remaining cylindrical there on. Expander plug measures .453". For me this works well.

[Biggfoot44]

Looks as if current Lyman dies are different from the vintage ones .

[Love Life]

I use RCBS .455 MkII steel dies for loading .45 ACP, .455 and .45 Colt for my S&W and Colt M1917, Colt M1909 and New Service .455 revolvers. These rounds also fit in my two Rugers and fired brass from the Ruger when FL sized in the .455 steel die and loaded enters the older Colts and S&Ws. No issues interchanging brass. Of course I DO lubricate the cases, using mineral oil, USP on a stamp pad and rolling them. Die pins .476" cylindrical at opening for a depth of 0.5," tapering to .470" at 0.80" remaining cylindrical there on. Expander plug measures .453". For me this works well.

That’s why I like the steel die. Less sizing and the brass still interchanges between guns.