First smelt - SO much learning

[theTastyCat]

Hi all - completed my first smelt today. Learned a tremendous amount and have a tremendous amount of questions. I had an absolute blast and can't wait to do it again.

Here was my smelt setup:

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad145/thetastycat/2011-02-22_17-00-49_349.jpg

It was what my girlfriend's great-grandfather used for plumbing work - I was shocked that it had any gas in it still, and it ran for three hours! I wager that once it's empty I might be out of luck since it's super-old and the feds most likely made everyone change nozzle types a few times since then.

Here are my cheapo smelting tools:

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad145/thetastycat/2011-02-22_17-00-57_466.jpg

And candles for flux since the local cabinetmaker's not open again until this weekend:

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad145/thetastycat/2011-02-22_17-01-11_732.jpg

Behold the manifold ugliness that is my first two ingots:

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad145/thetastycat/2011-02-22_17-04-56.jpg

I used my little Lee dipper thing to spoon the lead into them. It took forever and obviously made it look like a brain. Horrible idea. I ended up using a really old and rusted scooper that was with the smelter.

Here are the ingots from batch no. 2:

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad145/thetastycat/2011-02-22_17-38-10_541.jpg

They were poured one after the other, but the difference in appearance is great. The shiny top one was first; all I can think is that either I should have refluxed between one and two or that the temperature increased dramatically once I did the first set. I've also heard people say that ingots which are similar in appearance to the second ones are better for some reason - would love to know!

Well, it is abundantly clear to me that I need a bigger-horsepower setup. For my third and final batch, I filled the pot to overflowing, and it took about an hour and a half to turn liquid. Between the increased load in the pot and the outdoor temperature dropping, I think it was just too much for the little smelter to handle. I ended up with 22# of ingots, but spend 3 hours or so - at this rate I won't get through my current stash in my lifetime. I'll be on the lookout for a more substantial heat source. It was at 600 degrees forever - I finally covered the pot and stood close to try to deflect the wind, and it FINALLY got close enough. Part of the reason it took forever is that between batches I let the remaining lead in the bottom of the pot solidify before refilling it - I just can't see how I could ensure that there's no moisture in there otherwise.

I have the TelTru thermometer, and I'm really glad I do, but I'm not sure I trust it yet. The lead mix was still liquid even though it was reading 250 towards the end of the last batch, so maybe it has to do with how much of the thermometer is in the liquid lead - I don't know.

I got four wooden spoons for a buck at Family Dollar, and used one of them to stir once the candle wax flamed down, and didn't notice a lot happening - is that the right timing/use?

I'm really looking forward to re-reading all the great info on this site now that I have some experience with it - everything will make more sense!

Somebody posted a link to a fish fryer at Bass Pro, but the price has gone up to $75 - I might look for a turkey fryer on craigslist and couple it with a dutch oven.

Thanks for all the help - this is great.

[bumpo628]

Congrats on the first smelt!
If you want to use your existing melting pot, you can get a $40 fryer here:
http://www.basspro.com/Bass-Pro-Shops-Propane-Cooker-with-Aluminum-Pot/product/10205245/-1631022

You'll have to find another use for the aluminum pot, but the strainer could be used for a tumbler media separator.

You should hit the local thrift stores and pick up a stainless steel ladle and a slotted or perforated spoon for dross skimming. You may need to bend the ladle to make it comfortable to pour the ingots. I punched a 3/16" hole in the side near the top so I could use it to pour into boolit molds too. A large ladle is much easier and safer. Also see if they have any cast iron cookware, maybe a dutch oven. You may find a stainless steel pot that could be used too.

[theTastyCat]

SCORE!!!! That's exactly what I need. MANY thanks! That plus dutch oven ought to give me the heat I need to get things up to speed.

[lwknight]

That smelting setup looks really dangerous. You have molten lead up high with a very small base. Stir a little too hard and you will get a shoe full of hot molten lead.

The brainy shiny ingots are because the mold was cold. The mold was hot when you poured the latter so you got a frosty look.

[theTastyCat]

Yeah, good eye - it wobbled a few times. Another reason to upgrade!

[MikeACP]

Havn't tried this yet, but I have a question. How do you warm up the mold?

[bumpo628]

Havn't tried this yet, but I have a question. How do you warm up the mold?

Pour hot lead into it is the simple answer. You can also set the mold on the edge of the pot to warm it up. If you are casting ingots, it is not important to pre-heat the mold. When you cast boolits, you may need to remelt the first few batches before it gets up to temp.

[MikeACP]

Gotcha, thanks for the tip. I'm keepin notes.

[bumpo628]

That smelting setup looks really dangerous. You have molten lead up high with a very small base. Stir a little too hard and you will get a shoe full of hot molten lead.

I thought the same thing, so it's a good thing you're looking into upgrading to a new setup. Especially the part about the teetering tower on a bed of gravel = scary.

[theTastyCat]

Yeah, I'm glad I'm upgrading, but it was actually a bit more stable than it looks. I scooped out a little crater for it to sit in so the only iffy part was the actual pot perched on top. Hopefully no more. And yeah, I'm definitely going to add a slotted spoon and ladle to the smelting arsenal - I see lots of lead in my dross, and I'm just cheap enough to want it back.

Anybody have ideas about how those two consecutive ingot sets are so different in appearance? Dross/temp?

[bumpo628]

I just realized that there has been no mention of safety equipment here.
If you don't already have it, you're going to need:
Separate smelting clothes (jeans & long sleeve shirt) to minimize lead contact with the family
Good Shoes
Welding Gloves
Face Shield (to ward off the Tinsel Fairy)

[10 ga]

Goodwill, thrift stores, yard sales, with just a bit of patience you will eventually get a whole outfit.

1. Save that gas tank. There was a post last fall about how to convert to a smelting pot. I talked to the guys at the junkyard about how they purge and cut them up. First they open the valve for a couple of days. They cut the collar off with a saw or bend and fatigue the metal to break off. Then rotate the tank and bang on the valve until it loosens up and comes out easily with a wrench. Then fill with water and cut with a zip or other saw.
2. Lots of cheap stainless spoons and ladels at Goodwill type thrift shops. Also lots of stainless steel pots suitable for smelting. Also source of muffin pans etc... for ingot molds.
3. For pre heating I use a Coleman stove and #10 cans to warm the "ore" whatever it may be. Originally I smelted and cast on a 2 burner coleman, only used 1 burner.
4. get some sheet metal and build some sort of wind screen, it'll save you some money and time.
5. I use those heavy rancher type gloves with the gauntlets on them. Welder gloves are pretty pricey. I have several pair as if they get hot I have a cool pair to use and not have to wait.

If you live near a college town hit the thrift stores just after graduation. It's a bonanza of good stuff real cheap.

Again welcome! 10 ga

[John 242]

I use a cast iron pot I got from HEB (Texas grocery store chain). It was less than $10.
A friend let me have his old turkey fryer and I picked up a spare on Craig’s List for $5 or $10, brand new.
The ladle and spoon I picked up from the thrift store for a couple of bucks.
The wife let me have a couple of muffin tins that were old and funky.
The only expensive element is the propane gas, which around here runs about $18 for a bottle exchange.
If you scrounge you can find all of this stuff cheap. The cast iron pot doesn’t have to Lodge or something expensive. Just find a cheap Chinese made pot and some used muffin tin. A turkey fryer may be harder to find, but most people buy them and never use them but once or twice.
Being a bullet caster turns you into a first class scrounger. Soon you’ll be hitting every recycling center, junk yard, tire store, and thrift store looking for goodies. Pewter hunting, anyone?

[bumpo628]

I use a cast iron pot I got from HEB (Texas grocery store chain). It was less than $10.
A friend let me have his old turkey fryer and I picked up a spare on Craig’s List for $5 or $10, brand new.
The ladle and spoon I picked up from the thrift store for a couple of bucks.
The wife let me have a couple of muffin tins that were old and funky.
The only expensive element is the propane gas, which around here runs about $18 for a bottle exchange.
If you scrounge you can find all of this stuff cheap. The cast iron pot doesn’t have to Lodge or something expensive. Just find a cheap Chinese made pot and some used muffin tin. A turkey fryer may be harder to find, but most people buy them and never use them but once or twice.
Being a bullet caster turns you into a first class scrounger. Soon you’ll be hitting every recycling center, junk yard, tire store, and thrift store looking for goodies. Pewter hunting, anyone?

How do you ID pewter?

[a.squibload]

Congrats TastyCat, ya done good!
(Had any cat fritters lately? Mmmm...)

The Tel-Tru thermometer has a ring on the stem, about 1 3/4" up from the tip.
Supposed to submerge it up to the ring.

Bumpo, several pewter threads here, lots of info.
Pewter is soft, can usually bend it with your fingers, it won't spring back.
Dull, not usually shiny but could be polished.
May be marked "pewter" on the bottom (OK, that one's easy!).
Doesn't ring when tapped.
Lot of pewter items are thin, the thrift store wants the "art" value but we're just buying tin.
If the item costs a lot you might as well buy tin or solder from someone here.
(I brought a beat up scratched up bowl to the register, half a pound maybe,
she wouldn't budge off the $5 price, I left it. It will be there next time.)

Oh yeah, stay away from "Wilson Armetale", it's zinc or aluminum alloy, junk.

[bumpo628]

Congrats TastyCat, ya done good!
(Had any cat fritters lately? Mmmm...)

The Tel-Tru thermometer has a ring on the stem, about 1 3/4" up from the tip.
Supposed to submerge it up to the ring.

Bumpo, several pewter threads here, lots of info.
Pewter is soft, can usually bend it with your fingers, it won't spring back.
Dull, not usually shiny but could be polished.
May be marked "pewter" on the bottom (OK, that one's easy!).
Doesn't ring when tapped.
Lot of pewter items are thin, the thrift store wants the "art" value but we're just buying tin.
If the item costs a lot you might as well buy tin or solder from someone here.
(I brought a beat up scratched up bowl to the register, half a pound maybe,
she wouldn't budge off the $5 price, I left it. It will be there next time.)

Oh yeah, stay away from "Wilson Armetale", it's zinc or aluminum alloy, junk.

Good to know, I'll check into it further.

[theTastyCat]

Great info here, as always. I'm happy to say that my "outfit" is nearly complete. Yesterday I wore boots, overalls, a fireman's turnout coat, a thick leather hat, safety goggles, and work gloves. I wouldn't mind having a full face deal or welder's gloves - guess I should check Evilbay.

And yes, "The Tasty Cat" is my nickname for my favorite local Chinese dive!

[theTastyCat]

Hmm...checking for gear. There's a lot of cheap welders gloves on Ebay and a few expensive ones - would something like this work?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brown-Welders-Gloves-Welding-Gloves-Kevlar-Qty1-Pr-/400146654326?pt=AU_Welding&hash=item5d2a996476#ht_857wt_905

And I can find plenty of welding masks, which I really don't need with the autodim and all, and when I look for "protective face mask" all I get is a bunch of paintball stuff - what do you all use?

Many thanks.

[bumpo628]

1. Save that gas tank.

That's a good idea about the tank.


I wouldn't mind having a full face deal or welder's gloves

Check your local Harbor Freight for gloves. They usually have a set with welding gloves and a leather apron for $15 ($10 on sale).
Otherwise the gloves aren't too expensive by themselves.
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=&q=welding+gloves
http://www.harborfreight.com/split-leather-welding-apron-45193.html

Face shield for $15:
http://www.harborfreight.com/adjustable-face-shield-46526.html

[Doby45]

Asbestos panties, you need those. All us cool kids wear'em..

[theTastyCat]

LOL - wow!

Yeah, Harbor Freight (affectionately referred to by my girlfriend's dad as the Chinese Hardware Store) will be the ticket again. Many thanks!