Best practice?

[DuncaninFrance]

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/Duncaninfrance/LEAD-WEB.jpg

Just moved over from THR as Steveb said it was a good place to learn.
This is a gift from a local plumber which I am going to process into .457 ball for my Remington 1858.
As you can see, there is a lot of grunge on some of the pipe, paint. duck tape etc., I thought I would melt it down and cast ingots so most of the muck is removed in one process.
SO - the best way to go about this is the question. Bear in mind that I live in France so probably can't get my hands on branded product.
To date I have cast about 80 balls which shot well but that was in the summer so I decided casting was a winter thing!

[Four Fingers of Death]

Well done, keep us posted on the progress, Mick.

[9.3X62AL]

Welcome aboard, Duncan!

In your place, I would try to remove as much of the foreign material as possible before smelting. ALL smelting should be done outdoors, and stand upwind of the operation.

There are good posts here concerning this topic, search about and see what others have done in this regard.

[carpetman]

I disagree with Deputy Al. Leave all that tape on there and melt it down. Reason being you will produce so much smoke all the neighbors will come gawking(However you spell gawking?) They will want to know what you are doing. When you tell them they will also give you all their scrap lead as they will want the neighborhood smoked up again. A cast iron pot is probably the best. Don't know what type heat source you have available over there--but you'll need a heat source.

[Dale53]

I have used a good bit of lead pipe. It is good stuff and generally quite soft lead.

HOWEVER, you must be careful. The crud inside retains moisture. If you drop a crudded up pipe into hot, liquid metal, you are asking for a steam explosion. The solution is simple. Cut the pipe to a length that will stand up in your pot of choice. Start with a cold pot. Fill the pot with stand up pipes and as the pipe is heated from cold to hot it will safely release all of the moisture and then will melt safely. Winter time can offer another problem. ICE can be inside the pipe and if dropped into hot, liquid lead, will cause a steam explosion.

Just melt from cold to hot and you will have no problem at all.

Safety first, as always.

Good luck and good shooting!
Dale53

[montana_charlie]

My advice would to get it melted down with as little handling as possible. All of that oxidation looks like a good way to tweak your blood/lead level up a notch or two.
If your heat source is portable, you can get out away from the neighbors until you get the crud cleaned out.
CM

[versifier]

You'll end up with something pretty soft, nearly pure lead, so you will need a source of tin, like solder or wheelweights and probably antimony like linotype to harden things up a bit. It's easier to add this after you remove all of the junk and have fluxed until clean, but before you pour your ingots.

[imashooter2]

A hatchet or axe will be a handy tool for converting that pipe to lengths suitable for your pot. Smack it flat and chop it off.

I'm a leave all the crud in place and skim it off kind of guy. No sense in doing the work twice. Handle the lead as few times as possible. Of course, this demands the work be done outside.

Dale53's warning about moisture inside the pipe is very real. Be careful and be safe.

For your cap n ball revolver, you don't need any additions since you want the balls dead soft. If you decide to get into cartridge arms, then adding other metals to harden up the mix comes into play.

[wills]

Soft ought to work for a cap and ball revolver. If you need boolits, for a BPCR 20/1 or 30/1 lead/tin will help the fillout.

[R.M.]

I don't know if it's true or not, but I've heard that the material used for the joints is high in tin. Reason being, it has a lower melting point, making it easier to solder.
Like I said, I can't comfirm this, but it makes sense to me.

R.M.

[DuncaninFrance]

Thanks for that guys. Current system is a Camping Gaz stove and small S/S pan. the lead is kept in my workshop which is good and dry. One question that comes to mind when I am going to melt this stuff down is:- Should I use anything to help with the dross removal such as wax and if so, at what stage of the process should I add it.

[imashooter2]

I have been smelting in a 2.5 liter SS pot on a camp stove myself. I load the pot (usually piled well over the rim), melt it, throw in about a centimeter of candle stub and stir vigorously with my dross spoon (an old kitchen spoon). Then I skim the ash and trash off the top, flux again with about a centimeter of candle stub (make sure you scrape the pot sides and bottom), skim any ash or trash that remains and pour ingots.

[wills]

Should I use anything to help with the dross removal such as wax and if so, at what stage of the process should I add it.

Flux, you can use a piece of an old candle, canning wax, cooking oil, put a little in after the lead is melted. It will flame up. When it stops burning, scrape off the dross. A putty knife works well to move the dross around and a slotted spoon works well to dip it out.

[arkypete]

Duncan
You'll need to flux. The crud, dross will be floating on top of the molten lead. Use a candle stub, sealing wax, a dab of tallow will work and smell better then the other two. If the flux gets to smoking to much throw a lit match into it, that will reduce the smoke and smell.
A caution, you'll need a lot less flux then you think. I use enough flux to send signals to the guy on the other side of the county.
Keep a large tin can handy for throwing the crud into. You can slip the can full of crud in the trash for disposal.
Have fun, you're about to imbark on you first step as an alchemist.
Jim

[trooperdan]

My .02 cents worth: I have found nothing better than sawdust for flux. In fact, it works well to flux well then dump another layer of sawdust on top and leave it. I cast outside obviously and use a bottom pour pot!

[drinks]

Several people are starting to use a wood dowel to stir and flux at the same time.

[imashooter2]

I flux with a wood stick in my casting pot (usually a large size paint stirrer), but still use wax when smelting. My experience is that small sticks burn up too quickly in the smelting pot and I don't feel like stirring with a 2x4. If I had a supply of clean sawdust, I can see where that would work very well.

[DuncaninFrance]

I have found nothing better than sawdust for flux.

Are we talking about fine sawdust or chainsaw cuttings? I assume that whichever they should be bone dry? I don't have a bottom pouring pot so will have to ladle from the top.
I might have some spare time this week so will have a try.

[Buckshot]

.............Hi Duncan. Welcome aboard. Looks like you have some old pipe like I have lying beside my garage. Can't add anything to what the guys have already posted excpet to add again about being mindfull of moisture. Water on top of a melt is no issue. It'll just sizzle and turn to steam. The danger is submerged moisture. When it's IN the melt and flashes to steam it goes in all directions at once and is a veritable explosion, best avoided.

Regardless how long you've had the pipe in a warm dry area, be cautious. You can't see inside the pipe and it's possible that lime, calcium, or other deposits may actually be hygroscopic to a degree. When adding more pipe, slide it in slowly and be sure to stand to one side. We don't want any brothers of the silver stream to get 'plated' :-)

What else do you shoot besides your '58 Rem revolter?

.................Buckshot

[PatMarlin]

Is yer steering wheel in the right or left hand side.. :confused:

[DuncaninFrance]

Is yer steering wheel in the right or left hand side
Left! That's the way it is in France Pat.


What else do you shoot besides your '58 Rem revolter Buckshot.
At the moment I only have a Chinese copy Mauser .22LR with a scope. Shoots well out to about 75 yards with Blazer ammo. Next buy (I HOPE) will be a Schmidt Rubin K31 if I can save the $650! To avoid having to applying for Category 1 it will be converted to a hunting caliber, Category 5, probably 30-284 Winchester hence the price.
There is also a Ruger OA in the offing!!!

[PatMarlin]

Well I shoulda known that. I was over there once, but it was after a USO show night's performance I was playing in the netherlands I believe, and 2 young French girls took me and the guitar player over the border in the middle of the night, for a well... night cap at their place.. [smilie=1:

I can't even remember the drive back that morning. Think it was still dark..:mrgreen:

[trooperdan]

[
Are we talking about fine sawdust or chainsaw cuttings? I assume that whichever they should be bone dry? I don't have a bottom pouring pot so will have to ladle from the top.
I might have some spare time this week so will have a try.


Duncan, the finer the better I've found but chainsaw cuttings should work just as well. Of course you are going to have a lot of eye-irrateting smoke from the sawdust!

[Buckshot]

Buckshot.
At the moment I only have a Chinese copy Mauser .22LR with a scope. Shoots well out to about 75 yards with Blazer ammo. Next buy (I HOPE) will be a Schmidt Rubin K31 if I can save the $650! To avoid having to applying for Category 1 it will be converted to a hunting caliber, Category 5, probably 30-284 Winchester hence the price.
There is also a Ruger OA in the offing!!![/QUOTE]

Duncan, so a catagory 1 is a military cartridge or rifle? Can you own a MAS36 or the later MAS49?

Have you ever seen a MAS36 sporter in France? I understand it was done,

http://www.fototime.com/4CE0AE555332580/standard.jpg

My MAS36 I converted to 45-70. Now THAT'S a cast boolit cartridge:-)!

................Buckshot

[DuncaninFrance]

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/Duncaninfrance/Cleaning-1.jpg

Here is my pride an joy Buckshot, thought you might like to see it.
As far as a MAS, no reason why you cant own one here. The rules are that if it is military and is a military caliber you have to jump through hoops. If it is military and converted to a hunting caliber it becomes cat 5 and much easier to own. A friend of mine at the club owns an Austrian FAL 7.62 which is Ca.1 - now that is fun to shoot. It was my favorite weapon when I was in the army although in the UK it was not designed to fire bursts.

I posted my other gem here (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=121125#post121125).

[guninhand]

Maybe getting a bit off topic, but whenever I used sawdust, I waited till it was charred at least a brown color all over before stirring it in with the lead. I've read in woodworking articles that wood always has some inherent moisture content, no matter how air or klin dired it is.

[montana_charlie]

I've read in woodworking articles that wood always has some inherent moisture content, no matter how air or klin dired it is.
The same kind of caution is a good idea when using the wooden stick...which I have come to prefer over all others.

My woodworking projects create a 'residue' of smallish-but-longish scrap which I have always saved to use for dozens of things from tomato stakes to glueing clamps. A piece from my scrap pile about an inch square, and broken to a reasonable length, will usually 'sizzle' a bit as it is immersed in the lead for the first time. (It might be pine sap more than moisture.)
So, ease it in slowly, and back it out a bit if the 'sizzle' starts to resemble 'spatter'.

What I like best about 'stick fluxing' is using the stick to gather all of the scum (oxidized tin, in my case) against the side of the pot, then using the stick to smear it down against the pot side into the melt.
A little rubbing up and down makes the scum wad disappear, and you just have a bit of powdery ash to skim off. When you drop the ash off of your spoon, and see nothing in it that resembles metal, you know you have not lost any of that precious tin...after you went to so much trouble to weigh it out when mixing the alloy to start with.

If you try it long enough to get the knack, you will probably stop using wax...
CM