Handloader/Rifle magazine article about 44 magnum heavy loads

[GARCIA]

Need help in finding the article in either the Handloader or Rifle magazine that dealt with 44 magnum heavy loads with cast boolits.

I went through what back issues that I have but no luck.

Can someone help me out?

Tom

[44man]

I read it and have it somewhere but I do not recommend some of the loads. Some have exceeded the accuracy and pressures I feel good with. I will have to look for it to see if it is the article that did that.
I have had so many articles about heavy boolits I don't remember which is which but some scared me. Some were written for pure velocity.
I use heavy .44 boolits and if you tell me your boolit, I should have a load for it that works and is safe. Safety first, accuracy next.
You can PM me too.

[doghawg]

GARCIA

Handloader # 265 (April 2010) has an article by Brian Pearce on +P .44 mag loads for REDHAWKS ONLY. While I have a lot of respect for Pearce I'd approach some of those loads cautiously. Personally, if I felt the need to lean on a .44 mag that hard I'd use it as an excuse to buy a .454 or .475.

[redneckdan]

I have a digital copy of the redhawk only article. Brian also did an article about heavy bullet loads, Feb '08. These were used in smith 329s I have the article somewhere. The basic premise is 310gr Keiths at 1100 FPS. Let me know if either of these articles are what you need.


-Dan

[44man]

I have a digital copy of the redhawk only article. Brian also did an article about heavy bullet loads, Feb '08. These were used in smith 329s I have the article somewhere. The basic premise is 310gr Keiths at 1100 FPS. Let me know if either of these articles are what you need.


-Dan
Some of the stuff I have read goes over 1400 fps with even heavier boolits.
But 1100 fps has not reached the accurate level for the 310 but you do not want to surpass where it is accurate just for sheer velocity.

[Gunsmoke4570]

I've been testing boolits weighing in at 335grs from an NOE mold. Got it up to 1200fps with a max charge of IMR4227 and no sign of high pressure and bug hole accuracy. Shot that load in a 9 1/2 SRH and a 7 1/2 RH. That is plenty of power and accurarcy for me!

[44man]

I've been testing boolits weighing in at 335grs from an NOE mold. Got it up to 1200fps with a max charge of IMR4227 and no sign of high pressure and bug hole accuracy. Shot that load in a 9 1/2 SRH and a 7 1/2 RH. That is plenty of power and accurarcy for me!
Watch 4227 in the .44 if you shoot the gun until it gets hot or shoot in hot weather. It will start to spike, raise pressure, flatten primers and increase velocity with every shot.
296 or H110 will tolerate temp changes.
I am not kidding, 4227 works great in certain calibers but can run away in others. I grit my teeth when someone uses it in the .44. Keep the gun COLD and it is accurate.

[Shooter6br]

Like to access data on 327 Fed from Handloader but too cheap to buy mag for 1 article.Read them at the supermarket while wife shops

[GARCIA]

First off, thanks to everyone is in order.

I checked out the article and he sure does push the pressure envelope. Seems as if most loads are 2-3gr higher in charge weights from what the Hodgdon web site has published for their powders.

I think sanity will prevail and I will use the published Hodgdon info. If I need some roamping, stomping loads I will switch over to my Redhawk in 45 Colt.

Again, Thanks to all.

Tom

[Gunsmoke4570]

Watch 4227 in the .44 if you shoot the gun until it gets hot or shoot in hot weather. It will start to spike, raise pressure, flatten primers and increase velocity with every shot.
296 or H110 will tolerate temp changes.
I am not kidding, 4227 works great in certain calibers but can run away in others. I grit my teeth when someone uses it in the .44. Keep the gun COLD and it is accurate.

Thanks for the warning. I'll keep an eye on it. I am planning on switching to 296 when I use up my 4227.

[44man]

Thanks for the warning. I'll keep an eye on it. I am planning on switching to 296 when I use up my 4227.
I learned it shooting IHMSA. I actually had to look at my revolver to see if the barrel was bending! :holysheep Some guys were using 25 gr of 4227 in the .44 and all I heard from them was a lot of cussing.
Guns get HOT and my last ram was shot at 16 clicks over normal and I hit 50 meters short.
I switched to 296 and won Ohio State with 79 out of 80. The last ram miss was my fault---do you know what it is like to run 20 targets at each range and have to shoot 20 rams? I fell apart with the last shot! [smilie=l:
Then I had a .357 max in a Ruger and it loved 4227. I feel the powder is caliber specific.

[Dale53]

44man;
That was a heck of a score! Fantastic!

I switched to H110/296 soon after I got my first .44 Magnum in the late fifties. Bruce Hodgdon used set up at the ATA (American Trapshooting Association) at the Nationals at Vandalia. I met him there and talked to him a length several times. He turned me on to H110 and I never looked back. He also regularly attended the NRA Convention (Hodgdon still does - I talked to Chris, his grandson, at Louisville) and was a fountain of information, freely given.

Dale53

[Gripmaker]

So, Gentlemen, did anyone ever come up with the actual article where Brian gave these loads? If they are for the Super Redhawk ONLY, then I can understand them being +P loads for any other 44 Mag on the market but they would not be for the SRH or a Freedom Arms gun either. Just don't put them in anything else. Brian is a man of integrity with a penchant for safety so I don't believe he would publish anything that would be dangerous "FOR THE GUNS TESTED". If he didn't use your gun for the test, be quite mindful of your loads no matter who recommends them. If the one who recommends them can destroy a steel ball with a rubber hammer, I think I would look elsewhere.
Just my two cents worth.

[Dale53]

Gripmaker;
The issue is Handloader #265 April-May 2010.

Dale53

[bhn22]

The article is for Redhawks only- S&W need not apply, and uses long-seated bullets to lower pressures, ala LBT. Ever wonder what the extra cannelure is for on some factory jacketed bullets?

[GARCIA]

The article is for Redhawks only- S&W need not apply, and uses long-seated bullets to lower pressures, ala LBT. Ever wonder what the extra cannelure is for on some factory jacketed bullets?

Dang!!!!! Now that was funny!!!!! S&W need not apply.

Gonna have to remember that one for future use.

Tom

[44man]

44man;
That was a heck of a score! Fantastic!

I switched to H110/296 soon after I got my first .44 Magnum in the late fifties. Bruce Hodgdon used set up at the ATA (American Trapshooting Association) at the Nationals at Vandalia. I met him there and talked to him a length several times. He turned me on to H110 and I never looked back. He also regularly attended the NRA Convention (Hodgdon still does - I talked to Chris, his grandson, at Louisville) and was a fountain of information, freely given.

Dale53
I love both powders. But each company would get a little different burn rate, Hogdon got one and WW got another. They are the same powder other then that and one will work better in a gun then the other.
The RH is in love with H110 but the other Rugers prefer 296.
Back then is when I found a LP standard primer cut groups big time and I have used the Fed 150 since, even for hunting in bitter cold weather. I don't know what temp you need a mag primer for though, maybe -20*???
I stoke the SBH, SRH, Vaguero, BFR's, .44, .45, 480, 475, .500 JRH, and .500 Linebaugh with 296.

[Dale53]

44man;
Years ago, I settled on Fed 150's for about everything including my H110/296 (and of course my slow lot of WC 820). I did this in the seventies when shooting IPSC with the .45 ACP, of all things. However, since I have had access to a Ransom Rest and a chronograph for many, many years, I confirmed what I had suspected - that they do the job and do it well.

The first time I used H110 was in a .44 Special. I had bloopers in the first cylinder full. Careful investigation showed me that I didn't have sufficient case neck tension. After I got a new set of dies, I haven't had a blooper since! As you also have learned, a good crimp is NOT enough - you MUST have sufficient case neck tension to burn those powders well.

Dale53

[44man]

44man;
Years ago, I settled on Fed 150's for about everything including my H110/296 (and of course my slow lot of WC 820). I did this in the seventies when shooting IPSC with the .45 ACP, of all things. However, since I have had access to a Ransom Rest and a chronograph for many, many years, I confirmed what I had suspected - that they do the job and do it well.

The first time I used H110 was in a .44 Special. I had bloopers in the first cylinder full. Careful investigation showed me that I didn't have sufficient case neck tension. After I got a new set of dies, I haven't had a blooper since! As you also have learned, a good crimp is NOT enough - you MUST have sufficient case neck tension to burn those powders well.

Dale53
It shows you do important thinking and testing for yourself. I admire you for that. That is what I want everyone to do. Just sit at the bench and figure it out. Never trust another persons opinions until you do your own thinking.
It is why I stay away from gun rags because 95% of writers just need an article with no concept of what happens. Some of them own 1000 guns so how can they find time to figure out all of them?
I love pictures of $100,000 worth of equipment and 5000 boxes of bullets in racks.
Dale, if you have 20 boolits on your bench and they hit what you shoot at, you have my respect.
Did you know there was a gun writer that was sent guns for testing and he was either to return them or pay a cheap price for them. He never sent one back or paid for one so gun makers don't send him any more. He now has a large amount of free guns but I don't think he can make any of them shoot.
Would you trust his loads?
Sure, there are a few real good ones still there that want to do the best but editors need advertisements that pay money quick so a good writer is held back, don't use two pages when one is enough. A picture of a gun can sell more then information about it.
Forgive the rant fellas, but the decline in gun comics is real. Best you test what is said here and stop referring to articles. Today they are entertainment. I think 5 minutes with a gun rag will use it up. What a huge waste of trees! :veryconfu
Dale knows, some should listen.

[doghawg]

I've used Win large pistol (std or mag) for most of my loads for many years now. I use Fed 150's for light loads with fast powder but in a northern Wisconsin deer stand I want to know for sure there's enough spark.

So....Last summer after hearing and reading about std. primers I loaded up 5 rounds of Fed 150's with my proven load of 18 gr. of 2400 under a Lyman 429244 and 5 rounds with a 17.2 gr charge. This was from a shakey wrist rest at 25 yards so there is some shooter error but from a good rest this gun and load will one hole at 25 yards (and do little clusters at 50) with WLP primers.

I know, I know....NOT a very scientific test...10 rounds...BUT...it was enough for me. I'll stick with what has worked all along. :-)
http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/565apple/houlderholster012medium.jpg

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
****--I am still not getting groups like that.
I agree with you on 10-12 shot groups,
MANY disagree & shoot 3-5shot groups, but I feel a revolver must be tested by shooting all chambers. So a 6 shot group is minimum.
Who loads only 3 or 5 chambers & goes hunting, or into a self defense situation???:Fire::Fire:

[nicholst55]

Watch 4227 in the .44 if you shoot the gun until it gets hot or shoot in hot weather. It will start to spike, raise pressure, flatten primers and increase velocity with every shot.
296 or H110 will tolerate temp changes.
I am not kidding, 4227 works great in certain calibers but can run away in others. I grit my teeth when someone uses it in the .44. Keep the gun COLD and it is accurate.

Thanks for the tip on 4227, 44man! I used to shoot it in my .44 Mag, but not at peak pressures. I loaded it for a case-filling mid-range load, and it worked well for that. I didn't own a chronograph then, and haven't been shooting .44s much until fairly recently. I haven't revisited 4227 in the .44 yet, but had planned to once I return to the States. I may rethink that now!

[Gunsmoke4570]

I love both powders. But each company would get a little different burn rate, Hogdon got one and WW got another. They are the same powder other then that and one will work better in a gun then the other.
The RH is in love with H110 but the other Rugers prefer 296.
Back then is when I found a LP standard primer cut groups big time and I have used the Fed 150 since, even for hunting in bitter cold weather. I don't know what temp you need a mag primer for though, maybe -20*???
I stoke the SBH, SRH, Vaguero, BFR's, .44, .45, 480, 475, .500 JRH, and .500 Linebaugh with 296.

I was using 4227 because I didn't have any magnum primers handy. Will have to try 296 with the Fed 150.

[44man]

I've used Win large pistol (std or mag) for most of my loads for many years now. I use Fed 150's for light loads with fast powder but in a northern Wisconsin deer stand I want to know for sure there's enough spark.

So....Last summer after hearing and reading about std. primers I loaded up 5 rounds of Fed 150's with my proven load of 18 gr. of 2400 under a Lyman 429244 and 5 rounds with a 17.2 gr charge. This was from a shakey wrist rest at 25 yards so there is some shooter error but from a good rest this gun and load will one hole at 25 yards (and do little clusters at 50) with WLP primers.

I know, I know....NOT a very scientific test...10 rounds...BUT...it was enough for me. I'll stick with what has worked all along. :-)
http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/565apple/houlderholster012medium.jpg
The WW primer does not have as much pressure as a full mag primer and can work. You must think of boolit movement before ignition just from primer pressure. More heat and less pressure works better in small cases.
I have had good luck with the WW primer in the .45 Colt but the next time groups increased. I could never keep the WW consistent.
I have to ask why you shoot 25 yards????
These are BFR and Ruger groups at 50 yards. The Ruger is capable of 1/2" groups at 50 with a Fed 150 primer and 296. Depends on the gun and boolit of course.
But then again, how about 200 yards?
And then a cold weather test between a mag primer and the Fed 150.
Now I have to ask the most important question of all. Do some shoot in favor of one component? Then just pop primers with something they don't believe in?

[Frank]

44man:
I have to ask why you shoot 25 yards????

He's not using a tube sight. Looks to me like WLP is beating Fed150.

[doghawg]

My "test" was just a little 10 round quickie experiment to see what the Fed 150's would do with a proven load. Did I deliberately "skew" the results to favor my primer preference? Nope.
Why did I shoot at 25 yards? Because with iron sights and 63 year old eyes I can easily get a one hole gun to shoot 3 or 4 inch groups at 50 yards....[smilie=1::grin:...that's why.
I always group hunting loads at 50 yards and double check at 75 or 100 but the chance of getting a shot over 50-60 yards is pretty slim in the cedar swamp.
What will the load do at 200 yards? I dunno....Plinking at far away rocks and dirt clods makes fine entertainment but I'd have no business shooting at a game animal that far away...scope or no.

Opening morning of 2008 dawned at -2 degrees. Would a standard primer have lit the 16 gr. of HS6 in the .475 I used for this 8 pointer? Probably.

[44man]

My "test" was just a little 10 round quickie experiment to see what the Fed 150's would do with a proven load. Did I deliberately "skew" the results to favor my primer preference? Nope.
Why did I shoot at 25 yards? Because with iron sights and 63 year old eyes I can easily get a one hole gun to shoot 3 or 4 inch groups at 50 yards....[smilie=1::grin:...that's why.
I always group hunting loads at 50 yards and double check at 75 or 100 but the chance of getting a shot over 50-60 yards is pretty slim in the cedar swamp.
What will the load do at 200 yards? I dunno....Plinking at far away rocks and dirt clods makes fine entertainment but I'd have no business shooting at a game animal that far away...scope or no.

Opening morning of 2008 dawned at -2 degrees. Would a standard primer have lit the 16 gr. of HS6 in the .475 I used for this 8 pointer? Probably.
Now youngster, I just HAVE to pull your chain. I am 73! :mrgreen:
HOWEVER, years of testing has shown the standard primer is more consistent. But I use 296 so I can't tell you a thing about 2400 since it has been forever since I used it.
The next thing is that you have a Bisley. I can't shoot groups with them. Just setting the gun down and picking it up will change my groups. I had to sell mine, drove me nuts! :popcorn:S&W 29's are the same. Redhawks are nasty but the SRH just needs a firm grip.
And NO, you NEED a mag primer in the .475. (Don't use a rifle primer.)
The .44 is best with standard and the .45 works fine with a WW primer.
But I have to have fun too you know. Who invented this stupid machine I sit in front of and waste my time with? [smilie=w:

[doghawg]

Youngster?!.........I haven't been called that for a while...

One correction though. That's not a Bisley in the pic. It's a field grade Mod 83 in .44 mag. I haven't run very many loads through it yet but it sure seems to like the 255 Lyman GC and 310 Lee so far.

[kelbro]

Odd, my shooting got more consistent when I switched from plow-handle to Bisley. I love that grip!

[44man]

Youngster?!.........I haven't been called that for a while...

One correction though. That's not a Bisley in the pic. It's a field grade Mod 83 in .44 mag. I haven't run very many loads through it yet but it sure seems to like the 255 Lyman GC and 310 Lee so far.
Freedom is almost pure Bisley! Might be a few thousandths difference.
It depends on your hands. I have large hands but those with small hands might handle a Bisley OK.
I can shoot a hog leg with any hold and shifted it with distance changes all the time but Not a S&W or Bisley. You really do need the same exact hold all the time. If you can do it that is good, I can't.

[kelbro]

That could be it 44man, my hands ain't so big. Medium gloves are tight and large gloves fit loose. I like the fatter target grips on my S&Ws and DW but I am more consistent with the Hogues.

[Gunsmoke4570]

I like the larger target grips on the Smiths. I changed my RH factory grips out for a set of Pachmyer Presentation grips. I shoot more consistently with the Pachmyers.

[44man]

That could be it 44man, my hands ain't so big. Medium gloves are tight and large gloves fit loose. I like the fatter target grips on my S&Ws and DW but I am more consistent with the Hogues.
It means a lot. I can hardly get extra large gloves on. I also have a very large middle knuckle from shooting archery all my life. A Bisley is PAIN! :groner: