need advice on 30-30 and 06 loads

[shagg]

My father gave me 2 30 cal molds, both lee. one is c309-160-r and the other is 309-120-r. He also gave me gas checks and a lee sizer. I have a marlin 336 30-30 and a 98 mauser based 30-06, can i use either of these bullets for either gun? If so, what loads are recommended? I have a boatload of 4064 if it will work that would be great.
I've been loading cast bullets only in 45acp and jacketed in rifles so cast bullets in rifles is a whole new venture.

Any help is greatly appreciated!
Thanx, Ron

[selmerfan]

They can certainly be used for the .30-06, a little light in weight, but will work for trigger time. The round-nose might be an issue in the 336, unless you want to use it as one in the chamber and one in the tube. I'm not sure about using 4064, it shows up for heavier boolits in the .30-06, no data for it in the .30-30 in either of my Lyman manuals. Look out, you'll be addicted soon!

[6.5 mike]

What powder are you using for the 45 ?. You may already have a useable one on hand.

[shagg]

i use bullseye for the 45 acp, 230 grain cast.

[dualsport]

IMR 4064 has been around for a very long time, maybe 80 yrs. Still, data for it in cast loads is scarce. But, based on what little I do know I'd bet you can find very good cb loads for it in your 30-06. I don't know about the 30-30, maybe. One published load I know of using IMR 4064 is in the book "Propellant Profiles" published by Wolfe Publishing, of 'Handloader' magazine fame. I think we can trust them. The load is for a 7mm Rem. Mag.- 136 gr. Lyman #287346U, 24 gr. of IMR 4064, 1965 fps. They refer to this powder as a "medium fast" powder with good ignition qualities. John Wooters likes it for developing low velocity loads in the belted magnums, which tells us something. For comparison purposes, the same book lists a load of 35 gr. with a 170 gr. jacketed in an 8x57 for 2175 fps and a load of 48 gr. with a 162 gr. Lyman boolit in an 8x57 for 2700 fps. Whether or not this is useful info or not I'm not sure, but it's a place to start from. IMR 4064 is a tad slower than IMR 4895, according to my burn rate chart. Unfortunately, I don't have any actual 30-06 or 30-30 load info for this powder using 4064. You'll have to do your homework, it's not for real low velocity loads, more like IMR 4895 cast boolit speeds.

[oldhickory]

IMR 4064 is a very good powder, and one I keep a generous supply of on hand myself.

RCBS published data in their cast boolit hand book for IMR 4064 with their 30-165-SIL boolit in the 30-06 is as follows;

RCBS 30-165-SIL 32gr. IMR 4064=1,716fps. 34gr.=1863fps.

[Larry Gibson]

4064 is a little on the slow side but should work ok in both cartridges with the c309-160-r. If you can't find data then use 4895 data. In the30-30 a filler shouldn't be needed but in the '06 a 3/4 gr dacron filler will make for better consistency of ignition and accuracy.

I suggest starting at 25 gr in the 30-30 and at 28 gr in the '06. Work up in 1/2 gr increments in both with accuracy (5 shot groups at 100 yards) being the criteria for load selection. Best accuracy for both will come in the 1850 - 1950 fps range.

The Bullseye powder you use in the .45 ACP will be the best for the lighter weight non GC'd 309-120-r. Use 2.5 to 3.5 gr in the 30-30 and 3 to 4 gr in the '06. Work up in .2 gr increments shooting 5 shot groups at 50 yards, again with accuracy being your criteria for load selection. With the PB'd bullet best accuracy will be in the 800 - 1000 fps range. No filler or wad is needed.

Larry Gibson

[shagg]

Thank you all so much, this info is a great help! I hope someday to have learned enough to be so helpful to others.

Ron

[1Shirt]

Have never found a reason to argue with what Larry Gibson writes. My pet load for 30-30 is 16 gr. of 2400, and for 06, 20 gr. of 2400, both with 1/2 gr. of dacron fill. Either/both of your blts will work fine. Suggest sizing .311. Also suggest weighing all of your finished loads for consistancy if you use my 2400 loads as they can be double charged if you don't pay attention. I also don't necessarily recommend fill as some say it causes problems. Doesn't for me, so I go with what works for me.
Good Luck!
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[shagg]

ok, i took Larry Gibsons advice and started with 25 gr. 4064 in the 30 30. They shot fine but much lower than i'm used to. I only fired 5 rounds because i wanted to check for leading. Whe i cleaned the barrel i found some unburned powder particals and 1 little sliver of lead 1/8 inch dia. and thin like foil. Am i correct that leading can occur when velocity is too slow as well as fast? I'm thinking of going 26 and maybe 27. I just got the rcbs cast bullet vol 1 and it gives data closer to 27 (4895).........advice?

Ron

[Smoke-um if you got-um]

27 - 30 will likely be where you end up for accuracy with the 160 in your 30-30 with 4064. Just a thought ,did you happen to clean the jacket fouling out of your barrels with an ammonia type cleaner like Sweets or another brand ? I don't recall any mention of lube type/brand? I went thru my notes and can't believe I've never tried 4064 in the 30-06's. It'll be off to the range as soon as weather permits.

Mike

[Larry Gibson]

shagg

Note I said that was the "starting load" and to work up from there in 1/2 gr increments. Could be the leading was because of to lite a load so work up as mentioned. Could also be because of the lube used, what lube are you using? Also, what is the size of the Lee sizer?

Larry Gibson

[Will]

4064 is slightly slower burning than 4895 so you should be able to use 4895 loads and work up. Larry's advise looks good.

[shagg]

Thank you all, i did load a few at .5 gr increments and will give them a try this weekend. Damn this is fun!

Ron