Suggestion for 30-30 single round ball load

[rbstern]

I've been experimenting with the Lee .310 round ball for some homemade buckshot loads (works well). Figured I would try the next logical expiriment: A .30 cal rifle load.

Anybody have a tested load formula for powder and seating for one ball in 30-30? I was figuring on something like a mild charge of Red Dot or Clays.

Any help appreciated.

[Junior1942]

See http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/rb30.htm for my work with round balls in a 30-30 Model 94. They work well to 25 yards.

[castalott]

Hi rbstern!
Years ( I mean years !) ago a friend tried this. Worked really well too! It was a low velocity load..so low you could see them in flight. But they shot good groups out to 12 yards or so. I can't remember all the details....but for his application, he didn't size the neck but did flair it. Added his primer & just a few grains of a fast powder...seated the ball with strong thumb pressure.( The balls were pure lead & I think deformed a little to 'grab' the case.) Remember to put the flat part of the ball centered like a meplat. He then added a daub ( is that a word?) of bullet lube ( or was it grease?) to the top of the ball. Of course it is a gently handled single shot round....but it did work well.....he had read about it somewhere. Someone still knows how to do this or has the article on it. I would ask him but he has gone on to his reward.....

Dale

P.S. As I think about it, seems he worked up to just under the speed of sound. 1100 fps or so. That exteneded the range....but seems like the balls became 'curve' balls.... hope this helps....

[John F. Lang]

Junior1942 has som excellant information at his site.
Go there for sure before you try anything else.
Great reading and he is good at what he does.

I use a single ball with 2.7 gr of VV 310 (no filler) and any large rifle primer.

That charge is a 3cc lee dipper level full.

Junior seats the ball below the nexk, I crimp slightly mid-ball with the Lee Factory crimp die.

Look at Junior's groups!!

My groups are similar at 25 yds which is all I want for rabbits,squirrels,stray cats, etc.

The little round ball loads are a barrel of funto mess with.

Good luck and have FUN!

John Lang

[John F. Lang]

Sorry. but I forgot to put the velocity that I was getting from this load of 2.7 gr V V 310.

At 10 feet the ball went across the screens at 883 fps.

I am very satisfied with it

John

[cherok9878]

rbstern, glad to see your face back here. Thanks again for the info on using ALOX. You have made my life a lot simpler.
Thanks............larry

[w30wcf]

Junior has a great page for loading round balls. Thank you Junior!

It's been awhile since I shot round balls from my .30-30's. I used Hornady .310" swaged round balls. They are still available. At the time, I used Bullseye powder exclusively and found that 2 1/2 grs. ignited by a large pistol primer did very well... 1" 5 shot groups at 25 yards.:-D (Red Dot in the same charge weight should do pretty well also.)

I seated the ball flush with the cast mouth like Junior does, and put a little NRA 50/50 Alox/beeswax lube in the area between the case neck i.d. and the o.d. of the ball.

Historically speaking, it appears that UMC offered a round ball factory load way back when as this cartridge from the John Witzel collection shows. Note the size of the primer (small rifle) which makes this cartridge pre 1909.
http://www.armorypub.com/Witzel/3030/UMC_2__Pb_ball_ss.jpg

w30wcf

[rbstern]

Excellent info. Thanks, all. Junior, nice write-up, as usual!

[1Shirt]

Juniors page and his data on one ball is outstanding, and have really appreciated his work and advise. I even tried two balls in a 30-30, as the neck is long enough if you just neck size and seat the lower ball carefully, and then seat the front one out like shown in the UMC2 picture. Works, but doesn't shoot worth a hoot, and if you make a mistake and get the lower ball in the body of the case could be a real problem. Lots of fun playing with stuff like this however. Try 3 balls in a 444.
Good Luck! 1Shirt!

[lefty_red]

+1 on Jr's site and RB article!

Lefty

[NickSS]

This is interesting to me I have used round balls in several calibers but never in a bottle neck case. I usually load 45-70 gallery loads with a 457 RB over 5 gr of Red Dot. This is an excellent small game/pest and plinking load for the back yard. I have a .311 RB mold for my squirrel rifle so I see some 30-30 RB loads in the near future.

[floodgate]

1shirt:

Many years ago, Ideal made a "shell indentor" that would put four little dimples around the neck to serve as a stop for the ball (like some of the British crimps); with the .30&30 and .30&40 there's enough neck for two balls, and no risk of dropping the bottom one into the powder. They also made a fluted hand decapping pin with palm knob to slip past the dimples.

floodgate

[hydraulic]

I used to shoot .45 round balls in my trapdoor .45-70. 2 grs of Unique. I set a block of firewood in the corner of the basement with a BB gun target on it and shot over a card table, about 25 feet away. The wife came downstairs to see what I was up to and wanted to try a shot so I loaded the rifle and was standing by the wood stove when she fired. There was a loud WHAP! next to me and I looked around to see what had happend but could find anything, so I loaded up for her second shot and this time there was another WHAP! over by the wood box. That round ball had gone through 3/4 inch plywood and was sticking out on the other side. I found the first ball under the stove and located a dent in the metal stove shroud. Turned out that all my firing had left a deposit of lead in the block and her bullets had hit the lead, acting like a baseball hiting a bat. Those .45 balls had come flying back and luckily didn't hit one of us. It's best to have a better back stop.

[1Shirt]

Floodgate, Just when you think you have read enough, researched enough, or learned enough, to get by, somebody comes up with some great info that you have no knowledge of. Thanks for the info.

Hydraulic, Yep you are right you were lucky. But then have always felt that it was far better to be lucky than smart.
1Shirt!

[Larry Gibson]

1shirt:

Many years ago, Ideal made a "shell indentor" that would put four little dimples around the neck to serve as a stop for the ball (like some of the British crimps); with the .30&30 and .30&40 there's enough neck for two balls, and no risk of dropping the bottom one into the powder. They also made a fluted hand decapping pin with palm knob to slip past the dimples.

floodgate

I bought a cannelure tool from CH in the early '70s. It was made for canneluring the case under pistol bullets ala factory and military ammo. A friend borrowed it some years back and made one for himself and he also made an extra for me. I leave one set up for the .45 ACP and one for 9 mm. I only use the cannelure on top end loads used for serious purposes. Pictures indicate it could also be used on the 30-30 for the RB load.

Larry Gibson

[floodgate]

1Shirt:

Here's the cut from the 1904 Ideal Handbook No. 16; this one shows the indentor being used with a short-range bullet in the .30-30, to keep it from being pushed back into the powder space in a tubular magazine - but it was also used for round balls. You MIGHT spot one on eBay; but I have never run across one. Larry Gibson's C-H tool clone would be a neat one to have, too.

floodgate

[1Shirt]

Floodgate,
Super! Now I have something else to look for at gun shows. Have never seen on on ebay either. Concur that Larry's gizmo would be interesting to have.
Thanks,
1Shirt!

[Leftoverdj]

Dull tubing cutter would give you that ring to rest the ball against.

0 buck run through a .311 sizer works well for the ball. I've always seated them flush with the case mouth and filled in the radius with lube.

[KCSO]

I took to using a 32 bullet from a Lee mould rather than a round ball. The 71??? grain bullet crimps nicely in the case and shoots poa at 25 same as the hunting load at 100. I also have a chamber adapter for 30-40 to shoot 32 s and w's. For lube with r/b's i just use Lee alox.

[floodgate]

1 Shirt:

You might want to sign onto the Antique Reloading Tool Collectors Ass'n. website <www.antiquereloadingtools.com> and ask around there for a shell indentor. Things have been sorta slow there lately; maybe we can liven it up a bit.

floodgate

[Larry Gibson]

I took to using a 32 bullet from a Lee mould rather than a round ball. The 71??? grain bullet crimps nicely in the case and shoots poa at 25 same as the hunting load at 100. I also have a chamber adapter for 30-40 to shoot 32 s and w's. For lube with r/b's i just use Lee alox.

That's basicly what I did also. First started using the Hornady and Speer SWC/WCs instead of the RBs in .30/.31 cal rifles (They are great in the .32 S&WL and the .32 H&R Mag also) because the right size Buckshot was difficult to find and not consistant in size. Thought about casting my own RBs but then decided to go with the Lee TL314-90-SWC. Haven't loaded another RB on .30 cal since. I size them .311 for the .30s and .314 for the .31s as they drop from the mould at .314 -.315. As mentioned before I use 2.7 or 3 gr of Bullseye depending on volume of case up through '06. Went away from RBs in the 45-70 also, am now using a 275 gr Rapine bullet. I still use RBs in the 6.5x55 and .375 H&H though.

Larry Gibson

[rbstern]

Wanted to share test results from my first 30-30 round ball loads.

I made up 13 rounds plain wheel weight .311 balls, using with 0.7cc (4.5 grains) of Red Dot and a Rem 9 1/2 primer. I seated the ball so that it was just below the half way point in the case mouth, followed buy a factory crimp. Swabbed a bit of LLA on the exposed portion of each.

Using a Savage 340, I shot them at 25 yards. They hit 2" high from where the same rifle normally puts a 150 grain bullet. All 13 shots grouped into 2". Pretty good, considering I was scooping powder manually and not being at all precise. Velocity over the chrono averaged 1432 fps.

Recoil is like a 22LR...no surprise there: Similar weight projectile, slightly higher velocity, heavier rifle. Gonna make some more and try them at 75 yards. Very fun way to shoot 30-30. Too bad I can't legally use this as a small game load.

Thanks again for all of the helpful guidance. I highly recommend this for off-beat 30-30 range shooting.

[w30wcf]

rbstern,

Thank you for the range report. At 1,432 f.p.s., the ball may be stripping a bit. You might find that you will get better accuracy @1,200 f.p.s. or less....... possibly reducing the group size to 1". 2.5-3.0/Red Dot, just might be the ticket.

Good luck,
w30wcf

[Lefty Red]

Raising this thread from the dead!

Has anyone used filler in the 30/30 or 30/40 Krag cases for these loads?
Would is cause a noticeable pressure hike?

Thanks!
Lefty

[kawasakifreak77]

I been experimenting with loading Hornady .310" muzzle loader balls in my little blackout bolt gun & observed a few things:

With just a grain or two of Hurcules Bullseye the report is just as quiet, if not quieter than my long barrel Winchester 67 firing a .22 short.

Half a ply of the cheapo motel brand butt wipe not only reduces the report even more but increases penetration!

I accidently didn't charge one case & even on a primer alone the ball will exit the barrel (16") although I'd bet a good sling shot honestly would propel it faster & I ain't a bet'n man. They just bounce off the tree in my backyard, shutting the door makes more noise, seriously.

I load them by belling the neck about 125" then placing them on the resulting shoulder. I then run them into my crimp die just a hair & it holds the bullet right at the end of the case. No worries about it coming out or getting pushed farther in the case.

I plan on solving two problems at once with this load. Squirrels chewed my cloths line in two & it's been a few years since I've had sqirrel stew...

[barrabruce]

And there I was!!!!!!!
Sitting around with the rain pelting down for days and nothing around but me and me dog as the wife left us in charge for a week holidaying.

Got some seller and bellot paper 12 gauge cases sg buck loads sitting around.
Cut one open and 12 balls per round with a dia .314" roughly.
I can size the balls if needed but I can tap them to stick in the end of the case mouth and chamber the round as they are and rub a bit of lube on the exposed ball.

The charge of powder is @ around 30 grains of a powder I've seen before in the old brenneke slugs when you could buy them here.
The powder is as I can only describe as being made in to a flat sheet like paper and cut up into little squares. Light grey in color with the odd red fleck in it.
Now Iv'e been thinking I could use this powder at 2-2.5 grns per load and really get full use of the whole case as the primer is those other type cap with the anvil in the brass jobs.

Being a shot gun powder would this be safe????

I got plenty of bulleye etc but thinking I could just cut a case up and make a dozen rounds easily with out much ado and anything more than a dripper.