9mm questions...

[lead-1]

While looking into loading cast in 9mm I ran across this thread;
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=98830&highlight=9mm+loads

In this thread there is the discussion of 9mm barrels being larger than the molds cast so there is talk of using boolits of .3580 to .3585 in those pistols. So here goes the questions,

If my 9mm barrel slugs at say .357 or larger,
Should I or could I use a .38/.357 mold for these guns?
Wouldn't that stretch the brass during boolit seating to the point of not chambering?
If the brass swages the oversize boolit back to the size of the brass then isn't it a lost cause to go to oversize boolits in the first place?

My .38spl's, .45acp's and .44mag's work Ok so far for me and I think I'm ready to tackle 9mm but I haven't had the best of luck with a reliable 9mm load with jacketed let alone all the wrenches that can be thrown into the cast load works.
Also thinking of the 125 grain range boolit.

[GabbyM]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=95269

Usually a .357” bullet will do it. Some of the Barrettes and Brownings have .3575” barrel grove diameter. But if you don’t have a fat barrel there’s not much reason t worry about them.

Link above is a thread I started last year. Deals with 9mm expander plugs. Sizing down the bullet in the case can be an issue with 9mm. Cases are plenty thick to swag down even 2/6 alloy if they are not expanded to fir the bullet. A Lyman M die is a pretty good item to have as they expand deeper than any of the die sets I have. With my die sets expander balls they only run deep enough to accommodate 124 grain RN bullets. My 122gr TC and 147 FN all go far deeper in the case.

Not much worry about over sized bullets chambering. 9mm chambers cut to NATO specs are combat chambers with plenty of space. If any chamber would not accept a fat bullet chances are you don’t need a fat one.

There is a lot going for a 124 grain round nose in the 9x19mm. The load die sets work with them for one. They seat shallow so as not to take up precious case capacity and they feed. As far as feeding goes however most 9’s will feed anything that fits in the magazine. Pistols like 1911’s and clones and first model S&W 39 which lack an integral feed ramp I’d consider hardball guns. You’ll not be running a jacketed soft nose with any confidence.

[lead-1]

Thanks for the input and I think a lot of my jacketed problems were due to the powder. It would seem that I worked in an area that 2-4 tenths of a grain difference in the powder charge would make the difference if the rounds would cycle or not (fail to feed), but the load that worked was over max in the manual.
There are two new 9mm handguns in the imediate family so I'm going back to the drawing board on this round.

[MtGun44]

Shape for feeding is the general reason to stick with boolits intended for the
9mm. I use the 356 120 TC (corrected the boolit design designation) conventional
lube. I use .357 or .358, but you want at least the same as groove diam, and IME,
bigger is better. The limit is what will chamber, you are right, but all my 9mm do
fine with .358 diam. Lee 105 38 semiwadcutter is a nice one in 9mm, too.

Go to the current "Lee truncated cone" thread and read my post there. I think the thread
is in the Cast Boolit top group.

No need to beagle 356-120-TC, mine drops about .3585 with wwts.

Bill

[Swede44mag]

Let your barrel tell you what size it wants, Slug it. There is no other way to tell that I know. I want my bollits at least .001 over bore size and .002 won't hurt. (One to two thousands of an inch larger.)

I use to have a Lama .380 that looked a lot like a Goverment .45. I had to keep upping the charge untill the action would cycle properly. It was over the book recomended maximum charge but up to the MAX charge it wouldn't cycle. I shot both Lead cast and Jacketed bullets untill some ***** stold it out of my house while if was fishing.

[MtGun44]

+1 on slug and use .001 or .002 larger. Use a micrometer to do this kind of
measurement. Calipers are only +/- .001 regardless of what you read on the
scales or digital read out.

Go to Enco tools and look for a .0001 reading micrometer. In the past we have
found them in Fowler brand (a good quality one) for well under $50 often in
the $25-30 range. Necessary to accurately measure the bore slug and the
boolits as you make and size them.

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

I've done fairly well by treating the 9mm and 40 S&W pistols like rifles for purposes of cast boolit shooting. By this I mean......

Boolit diameter is predicated by throat diameter.

Fairly hard alloy (92/6/2) but soft lubes (Javelina Alox).

Expander spuds large enough to prevent boolit size-down while seating (.002" smaller than boolit).

GENTLE or ZERO use of taper-crimping to straighten out case mouth flare. And apply any such taper-crimp as a seperate die step, NOT as part of boolit seating.

[MtGun44]

Agree with Al except need for hard alloy. Not saying it won't work, just that my lazy
one alloy, one way (air cooled wheel wts) method has worked for me for a whole
bunch of different guns and calibers and boolits. I only try something else when
AC WWts fails me and it has rarely done so. Kinda stuck in rut, I guess.

Bill

[robertbank]

If your gun is relatively new, say in the last 30 years I would be surprised if your barrel isn't .355 and tight on spec. I have used water quenched WW alloy for all my 9MM guns and have experienced no leading nor have I experienced any leading using WW alloy AC. I size my boolits .357 and use a soft lube. My favourite boolit mould is the 124 gr Lyman 356402. Runs through my guns slick as a whistle.

Take Care

Bob

[MtGun44]

Lots of relatively new Euro 9mms are more like .357 or more based on the reports
that I have seen here. My P225/P6s are .357, as is the Beretta 92.

The funny thing is that it seems like most US 9mms are the ones with the tight
barrels.

Bill

[robertbank]

Lots of relatively new Euro 9mms are more like .357 or more based on the reports
that I have seen here. My P225/P6s are .357, as is the Beretta 92.

The funny thing is that it seems like most US 9mms are the ones with the tight
barrels.

Bill

Ummm. My CZ's, Tanfoglios, Sigs, & Hi-Powers are or were all .355. My Beretta Storm barrel is .355. So too my STI Trojan.

Take Care

Bob

[MtGun44]

That's why we tell people to slug bbls. They are all over the map. Brother has a S&W
9mm Sigma which tumbles .356, shoots .357 perfectly. Same with his new Springfield
XM. I have not slugged them, but they won't shoot .356s, so I assume that they are
larger bores, since larger boolits fixed it.

All over the map.

Bill

[robertbank]

I find .356 to be to small a diameter for my 9MM. Pressures are to high to rely on 1/1000 to seal bore properly. My barrels that I have slugged all measured .355. I certainly didn't slug all my bores though.

Take care

Bob

[fecmech]

My 1990's Browning HP slugged .3575.

[GabbyM]

That's why we tell people to slug bbls. They are all over the map. Brother has a S&W
9mm Sigma which tumbles .356, shoots .357 perfectly. Same with his new Springfield
XM. I have not slugged them, but they won't shoot .356s, so I assume that they are
larger bores, since larger boolits fixed it.

All over the map.

Bill

Anyone know if S&W makes these barrels or just out sources them in from some **** hole?

I’ve had many old S&W’s which had tight bores. Made in the USA.

Have an old 659 which were all .3545" right on the bubble better than any hobbyist could measure. My 659 is decades old and still measures under .3550".

Not many of the first run *** M9's left. Which beat the Smith for the Army contract. Argh.

[9.3X62AL]

Robert et al--

I've slugged a BUNCH of 9mm throats and barrels over time--50+, at least. There is no rhyme or reason to their dimensions--Euro, North American, South American--or within a maker. They are Duesenbergs--"No two are alike", as the ads once claimed. 9mm components aren't much better, though .355" and .356" seem to be consensus (and largely undersized) diameters for jacketed and lead bullets. Cases are ridiculous as to varying length, thickness, and capacity. With luck like RobertBank's as to 9mm barrel dimensions, I'd move to Las Vegas or Reno from BC and make some lucrative advantage out of such good fortune! :D

[robertbank]

Come on Al find me a .45acp case made by anybody that is .898 in length or even close to the same demensions as the one next to it. What you comment about the 9MM cases is true of most handgun caliber cases. I have found as many variations to .45acp cases as 9MM. Perhaps more because I mostly Remington and Winchester 9MM cases up here along with a few Federal and S&B.

I long ago quit worrying about slugging handgun barrels. For 9MM I size all .357, for .45acp .452 and .40cal .401.

As far as N.A. quality is concerned my Ruger Gp-100 had cylinder throats tighter than .356. I know this because I coud't force a .356 boolit through any of them. I just reamed them out to .358. To date I have't bothered to slug my Ruger bore as there isn't much I could do about it if it was greater or less than .357. The gun shoots more accurately than I can hold so life is good. My K-38 throats were tighter than .357 using my simple test of attemptig to force a .357 boolit through them. A .358 reamer solved the problem.

The guns in my safe all measure .355 or less than .356 includig my M&P. I size .357 as I have found using my WC quenched WW alloy boolits work best in my guns. If you have 9MM that are oversize I suspect you can find other caliber guns with oversize barrels as well. I believe 9MM guns get a bad rap for variations in barrels due to the fact, most, at one time were made offshore.

Take Care

Bob

[9.3X62AL]

Bob, "bad rap" is too strong a word. "Poetically dimensioned" might be better.

Gotta take exception here, sir--IME, 45 ACP barrels have run very consistently within .0005" of .451", and throats within .0005" of .452. Same story on the 40 Short & Weak, same variances at .400" and .401" respectively.

[Bass Ackward]

FYI, I succumbed to a brass chaser last Friday. Kahr CW

Groove was a clean .4512 new.

After one box of FMJs, .4515. Looks like it will polish out to about .452 which is good cause it lacks rifling height. .0022 new.

Very clean chamber will slowly swallow a .454.

[robertbank]

Bob, "bad rap" is too strong a word. "Poetically dimensioned" might be better.

Gotta take exception here, sir--IME, 45 ACP barrels have run very consistently within .0005" of .451", and throats within .0005" of .452. Same story on the 40 Short & Weak, same variances at .400" and .401" respectively.

I can go along with that.

Take Care

Bob