Rem Spartan Single 7.62X39 Range Test

[onondaga]

Weather in Western NY gave me a break today, 25 degrees, sunny and no wind. I went to my club outdoor range in Niagara Falls, NY, Lasalle Sportsman. Fortunately the gate was frozen in the open position in the ice and snow. My load for the Spartan is not a worked up load for accuracy, but a first time, get a feel with the new rifle load:

7.62X39R, Winchester brass.
Bullets cast with Wheelweight:Linotype, 7:3 at BHN14 from a Lee C-309-150-F. I modified this mold to drop bullets at ..313" and modified a Lee bullet sizer to size the bullets at .312" as my bore slugged at just under .311". Bullet weight with gas check and 2 coats of 45:45:10 lube after sizing averaged 151.6 grains. Powder charge is 26.5 gr H4895 with velocity extrapolated by a reduced charge calculator at Handloads.com is approximately 2060 fps. LOA is 2.125" with bullets seated just off the lands and the load capacity is 100% with the H4895 powder at this LOA.

My range setup with the Spartan, SuperMag rear bag and the front rest I made with a 1.5 ton scissor jack, an aluminum base and a hand sewn canvas and leather cradle. You might also notice the bungee cord on the left below the handle, it completely takes the wobble out of the jack. I added a small wooden handle to the jack for vertical adjustment. this works smoothly:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/AtBench.jpg

I tried some bullets sized at .310 and the rest at .312". Left to right, 4 shots @ 50 yd. with .310 bullets. All other shots with .312 bullets on first target after initial sigh in:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/50YARDS.jpg


100 yd target is 5 shot groups with the .312 bullets:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/100YARDS.jpg


The primer strikes were strong and showed no signs of pressure:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/PrimersOK.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/LCheek.jpg

The Spartan was fun to shoot as I managed to get the trigger adjusted as I like it after some work last week. I routinely pull a Hoppe's Bore Snake after every 5 rounds at the range with all my rifles. The bore actually seemed shinier after I finished shooting and it had been previously polished. This was also the first time trying out the padded leather roll over cheek piece with shell holder that I made for the Spartan. Eye line-up was perfect with my pupil at cross hair level in a comfortable hold seated at the bench on a stool. This was my first time with this new rifle and I look forward to working up a good hunting load for my grandson with the Spartan and this bullet, but using Accurate 2230 powder. I need more shooting weather again soon! Now, to reload the brass!

Gary

[Mk42gunner]

Gary,

That looks like decent groups for just starting out, to me. I wish I would have bought one of those when I had the chance, (and money).

IIRC those rifles are supposed to have chrome lined bores.

Robert

[JIMinPHX]

It looks like you are off to a real nice start with that thing. Keep an eye on any range brass that you might pick up. Some takes large primers & some takes small primers. 2400 & Reloader 7 are also popular powders in that cartridge.

[onondaga]

Mk42gunner: Yes, this one does have a chrome lined bore. Finish of the bore was pretty nice but I polished first anyway before shooting the rifle. I used a Bore Snake and chrome polish to avoid a lengthy shoot and clean break-in. The inexpensive scope that came with the rifle has held adjustments also.


JIMinPHX: I have some REL #7 and will try that also. Accurate 2230 was on sale at Midway for $12.99/lb and I got 10 pounds, so I really hope that works well. Thanks, I didn't know that about the different primer sizes. I have gotten a batch 200 pieces of Winchester brass that is LR primer size. Actually, I was surprised that the little cartridge uses LR primers when I got the brass. This is a new caliber for me. The caliber selection was based on case capacity being compatible with 100% density loads with a variety of powders with pressures suitable for cast bullets. Internal ballistics of this caliber are pretty similar to the 30-30 Win.

Not mentioned in the post yet is that the 45:45:10 tumble lube works well with this bullet/velocity and left a star on the rebated cone muzzle nicely after 5 shots.

Gary

[doubs43]

Just a suggestion but AA-1680 powder was developed expressly for the 7.62x39mm cartridge and others of similar case capacity. I've used 1680 in .303 British, 6.5x55mm Swede and other cartridges when using cast boolits and it's performed well in all of them. I know they are larger cases than the 7.62x39mm but if I owned a bolt action or single shot in that caliber, I'd surely give it a go with 1680 & cast boolits.

[NHlever]

The AA-1680 works in smaller cases too like the 22 Hornet, 25-20-32-20, and .223 etc. I have an 8 Lb jug of AA-2230, and have used it in a few different cartridges, but haven't come up with a favorite yet. Hopfully it will work well in your 7.62X39. My son has an AR so it will get used, one way or another.

[JIMinPHX]

Thanks, I didn't know that about the different primer sizes.

Some of the brass cases are Berdan primed. You need to watch for that too.

I agree with your rationale about 100% powder density for 30-30 class ballistics. I think that cartridge is a great choice for .30 cal cast. It may be about the best one out there.

[mroliver77]

If I had $12.99lb powder and could get it to shoot 1-1/4" or less it would be my favorite powder even if the $25. powder shot 3/4" groups. ;)
Gary, I don't know if you have any experience shooting break open actions but they can be tricky from the bench. They are sensitive to pressures from your face and grip. Mine respond well to the front rest being as close to the hinge as practical. Consistant hold is crucial.
How is the lock time on this gun being it has a striker verses a hammer? I bet much faster. good luck with it.
Jay

[JIMinPHX]

When I bench rest a Handi, I support the area just behind the hinge. I make sure that I don't over do it with the fore arm screw pressure. I am also careful not to pull on the barrel with the sling. That seems to work on those. I don't know how much of that will transfer to Gary's gun. It may be different.

[onondaga]

JIMinPHX: I know about the Berdans and plan on never using any of the cases out there that aren't real brass also. I will stay with the Winchester brass.

I have a Handi also, I free floated the Handi barrel and use an "O" ring spacer on the forearm screw. The Handi will pop open with heavy loads if you rest the rifle near the end of the forearm, so I rest it on the hinge too. This Spartan has a much beefier tank like barrel lockup with powerful springs. The forearm attachment is very unlike the Handi at all. This forearm on the Spartan attaches like a fine shotgun forearm with a thumb lever inlet to the stock:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/ForeLatch.jpg

The barrel has a catch welded to the underside that works with the latch to fasten the forearm stock in conjunction with where it catches the receiver. The barrel is in a factory fixed float and doesn't touch the wood. :

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/BarrelLatch.jpg

I am very conscious of sling tension when bench shooting. The Spartan has a barrel welded sling swivel similar to my Colt/Sauer Grand African that I shoot a lot at the range, so I am accustomed to working around a similar sling mounting and it doesn't bug me.

mroliver77: The Spartan has a substantial internal hammer and the opening lever at the trigger takes a real hefty squeeze as it also cocks the massive hammer coil spring. Lock time is lightening fast. Jay, I have never had a rifle that wasn't critically sensitive to face and grip tension at the bench. I wish I could find one! I was a bench competitor for years, Now I just play with my grandsons and hunt when they will go with me.

Gary

[JIMinPHX]

The Handi will pop open with heavy loads if you rest the rifle near the end of the forearm, so I rest it on the hinge too.

That's kind of scary. What kind of condition is the lock up in? How much engagement do you get? I think that they fit a lot of the Handi Rifles too tight at the factory, probably with the mindset that after they break in, they will be a good fit. I think that it is a bad practice. If you don't snap those things closed with authority, they may not be safe to fire. I've never had one pop open on me, but with the small amount of engagement that some of them have when they are tight, I always wondered about that.

It sounds like that Spartan is a more legitimate rig. About how much do they usually go for?

[Mk42gunner]

Remington is the only one that I am aware of that makes 7.62x39 brass with small primer pockets. I think I read something about they are now using Large primers, but I haven't bought any in a few years.

Robert

[45-70 Chevroner]

Nice groups for the first time out. I think I would get a stronger front rest though that thing might collapse any minute especially with the extra weight when there is a loaded shell in the chamber. I would have never thought of that. A dual purpose tool, and to think I spent a lot of money on shooting rests. One good thing about that set up is, you probably never forget to bring it to the shoot. I have a 10" TC barrel in 7.62X39 I just took it out last weekend. It shot ok with some different loads and weights of cast boolits. I was shooting with open sights but I think I'm going to put a scope on it. I was shooting at 40 yards and with these almost 70 year old eyes I just can't seem to get my sight picture quite right.

[leadman]

You may want to try a lighter load of 4895 to see if the groups tighten. Hodgdon lists 28grs as max with a 150gr jacketed bullet and Hodgdon says you can go down to 60% of that load.

I found that 28grs in my 30-30 Contender carbine with an RCBS 150gr cast bullet gave me the best accuracy. I also have to put my hand under the forend on the rest to get it to shoot consistently.

Looks like you have a good start and just need a little fine tuning.

[onondaga]

JIMinPHX: The Handi pop open is endlessly discussed over on the NEF users board. It is a really scary thing when it happens, but, as it is, it only happens after the bullet has left the muzzle and poses no real danger. The consensus is that the cure is to never oil the locking lug, just keep it clean. That works. I had some pop opens with maximum loads in .500 S&W but none with max loads in .223 REM. I have 2 barrels for my Handi. Since I started with keeping the lug clean and dry, I have had no pop opens. One theory is that the pop open is actually caused by recoil bouncing the forearm and the bouncing on a rest or in the hand while offhand shooting heavy loads. I agree with that theory completely and believe it to be the cause of the pop opens with the Handi. JIM, check your PM for the rifle cost, I sent it with explanation .

45-70 Chevroner: You are funny! I get a lot of comments on that rest at the range. The base is 1/2" thick aluminum and a 1 foot triangle, It is a heavy rest. The scissor adjustment with the little handle I made is nice and smooth and goes to 2 feet high!!! I have no problem with high capacity magazine clearance on my spray guns. So many of the guys at my club have laughed at that rest that 4 of them went home and made their own. Then they laugh again. It works nicely for me, the bungee is critical to prevent any wobble and does it well. Bungee goes over the threaded shaft at the handle and both hooked ends go under the base and back up to hook onto the other side of the jack. Real steady, no mechanical wobble, but without the bungee, it is horrible. I prefer to bench shoot with high rests and have a relaxed straight back position that works best with my breathing, hold and trigger squeeze routine. This one does it well for me. I have other rests with expensive extensions that were hundreds of dollars, all gathering dust. I put $26 into making this one, it is steadier, and I let the kids use the other ones when they shoot.

leadman: Oh, I'm gonna play with powders. There is three of the Mil Surp powders I have on hand that I have also found have load listings for the 7.62X39R with my bullet: WC820, SR4759, and WC846. My plans and hopes for the rifle are to use the summer shooting and work up a deer load that will group less than 1.25" at 100 yards and have 2100 to 2200 fps or better at the chronograph. Tough- maybe, maybe not. I have good alloys and good bullet size and lube I trust. It will be fun anyway. One of my 50 yard groups in this article was .713" C to C at 50 yards and not even a worked up load. I think I will get there before deer season with a good load. Reloadersnest.com member "Roadrunner" lists a 7.62X39R load with a 158 gr cast RCBS-FN with gas check in his Handi-Rifle with 26.0 gr Rx10 that clocks 2212 fps and groups 1.496" at 100 yards. Load ID # 4659 at that site. If he can do it, I will try harder with my Remington Spartan 7.62X39R.

Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned....Bequeath and will them to your favorite young shooter and take care of them all.

[JIMinPHX]

I've never had a pop open with a 7mm Express Handi & that's a fairly snappy round, so I think that the action can take a fair amount of pressure. That latch has seen some oil on occasion too.

I notice that with a .223 barrel, if I don't snap it shut firmly, then the latch only engages about 1/4 of the way, which isn't much. I've thought about adjusting the pivot pin recess on the barrel lug to allow greater engagement so that I would not need to watch the latch closure so closely every time, like I do now, but I haven't gotten around to it.

I'll check out that NEF forum & see what those guys have to say about it. Thanks for the info.

Jim

[onondaga]

I have fired .500 S&W loads in my handi with 350gr jacketed bullets at over 50,000 PSI. the action held that pressure fine and primers looked good too. Mine popped open with 365 gr cast bullets and 40,000psi loads. I think the heavier bullets bounced the barrel on the forearm harder and caused the pop opens only when the rest was out at the end of the forearm instead of at the hinge. That only happened with 3 of 500 shots with that bullet. But it happened, 2 at the bench and one offhand. That was the day I found the NEF users board.

I don't think the Spartan will have any such problem.

Gary

[dualsport]

2230c has been best in my Handi 7.62x39. With 25 gr. and the Lee CTL-312-160-R it has shot 5 shots touching at 50 yds. I'm working up loads so haven't gone to 100 with it yet. That's with the SP brass.

[Papa Jack]

Whats the deal on the SPARTAN ? I guess I have never seen one before .
Is this a discontinued rifle ?
Are they or we're they high dollar ?
Because Remington controls H&R these days, I was wondering if this was their way of replacing the Handi-Rifle and fazing out H&R with their own SPARTAN.... ?
Sorry for all the questions... Thank's ! Papa Jack

[onondaga]

The Spartan is imported by Remington, they are made in Russia by Biakal. There is no association with NEF that produces Handi-Rifles. The Spartan is less expensive than the Handi, They are current manufacture and importation is spotty at times. Your dealer can order them from the importer if they are not in stock. Barrels are not interchangeable with the Spartan to my knowledge as NEF can fit accessory barrels to an existing Handi-Rifle. Spartans are caliber specific. The Spartan is more of a utility grade rifle and built like a typical Russian Tank. My trigger had a heavy pull and a lot of creep, but i adjusted and fixed that. The wood finish and checkering were low quality also and I fixed that too, so my rifle is better looking than what you will get off the shelf and just looks high end.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/RLoops.jpg

The checkering was originally stark, raw white and rough. I finessed it with a Dembart single line checkering tool and stained color in before many coats of Johnson's paste wax.

Gary

[Shooter6br]

Where do you locate a dealer for the Spartan and how much?

[onondaga]

Have your dealer contact the importer to order for you:

http://www.ussginc.com/contactus.html

Here is the model selection catalog:

http://www.ussginc.com/pdfs/USSG_2011Catalog_p18.pdf

My model is the MP18MN/Nickel and is priced below an NEF Handi-Rifle and the blued receiver model is cheaper yet. The literature says they weigh 11 pounds, my model weighs 7.5 pounds. Mine has both the Remington Logo and the BIAKAL logo on it, direct from the importer models will not have both logos and will only have the BIAKAL manufacturing logo from Russia. Note the double rifle models! They are available in 30-06 and 45-70. I have no clue on the double rifle or other model costs, but my single barrel/nickle plated receiver model was $200- $250 at local shows last month in Western New York.

All Biakal models are in current production but importation can be spotty. SO, if the model you want is in, I suggest ordering immediately because they sell like hotcakes at the low price. Do remember that the trigger pull on these is brutal out of the box and expect to do or get that work done.

Gary

[Papa Jack]

Gary, Thank's for the info .. !! Papa Jack

[JIMinPHX]

The Spartan is imported by Remington, they are made in Russia by Biakal.

That concerns me a little. The only experience that I had with a Biakal was a double barrel shotgun. I had 3 complaints. The trigger was stiff as a life sentence. The 2 barrels shot to different points of aim & the finish on the stock wiped off when I took it hunting on a rainy day. Does your gun have any of these types of issues (aside from the 2 barrel thing)? Or have they cleaned up their act?

[onondaga]

I like the rifle. The Spartan is made by Biakal and likely not for you. Yes the trigger was brutal but took me about one hour total to remedy. The finish was open and the checkering coarse and ragged and I have reworked these as discussed. It is built like a tank and designed to be affordable to Russians. This is not a showpiece at all, as it comes. It is a utility grade, low priced rifle. In Russia, they sell for the equivalent of about $40. This is a dependable farmer's rifle, meat getter over there costing less than a weeks groceries.

Read the catalog link I provided and the double barrel alignment for the rifles at least has been addressed with an adjustment via a jackscrew between the barrels. All models have chrome lined barrels and this feature is super for cast bullets. The rifle has shot well for me with no load work up at all. I am sure the load workup will achieve less than 1 MOA for hunting. Mine was $200 with scope and sling included, I was not expecting a Ruger #1, but I believe the action and breech is stronger than the Ruger.

There is one feature of the rifle I actually dislike. I don't mind that is has shell extraction only and not an ejector, but the extractor has a small spring loaded ridged ball pin that engages the rim of the brass. Removing extracted brass takes a twist of the brass to get it off of the ball pin in the extractor and this can only be done easily with bare hands. Gloves on removing a shell winter hunting would not be easily doable for me, I have tested this. Fortunately, I have always preferred single shot rifles and never consider needing a fast second shot in the field. A couple of oiling and cleanings of the ball pin has made this easier and more practice will likely help. I have only fired the Spartan 50 times. I will get used to that.

Gary

[onondaga]

Here is a picture of the extractor I mention:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c338/rhymeswithwhat/extractor.jpg

I do think this extractor is sturdier and more dependable than the one on my .500 S&W NEF Handi barrel. The NEF extractor rides in a slot and a floating spring in the slot under the extractor pushes the whole part up. It is a wobbly kind of relationship. I replaced the part on the NEF because it kept slipping off and not engaging brass reliably. That wasn't enough, I had to make a stiffer spring to cure the NEF extractor's dislike for the .500 S&W. The extraction of the 7.62X39 in the Spartan is many times more solid. The whole part doesn't wobble up and down on a spring like the NEF but the Spartan extractor slides uniformly and only the ridged ball pin is spring loaded.

Gary

[JIMinPHX]

The double barreled shotgun didn't have a barrel adjustment on it. If they now offer a barrel regulation screw, that would certainly address that issue. That one was the sticker for me. I understand that a trigger can be reworked & for a gun of that price, it should be worth doing. It sounds like you have the finish issue worked out too. My big gripe with the finish issue was that it caught me off guard. I was out hunting one day. It got kind of rainy & the next thing that I knew, my orange jacket was covered with big brown stains.

If that ball pin is causing you grief, I would expect that it could be pinned in the down position, or filed off, or maybe you could remove the spring from under it.

A small gun with a chrome bore in a useful caliber like that is certainly worth spending some time on doing finish work if you can pick it up cheap enough,& it sounds like you did.

Just out of curiosity, does that thing have a wedge lock action with a really strong spring holding it shut? Or did they do something different on that model?

[onondaga]

The action has a huge wedge lock, easily 5 times the mass of the wedge in the NEF. The spring for it is substantial also.

I have to stay with the extractor the way it is. The ledge on the pin is the only thing that catches the case rim. Note in the picture that the curved cradle area cut for the brass diameter only has the pin top ledge to grab the shell, there is no other ledge than the spring loaded pin top ledge to catch and extract the shell.

The finish had some lumpy splatters caked and dried right on. I had considered stripping the finish completely with turpentine and starting from scratch with True Oil as I have been a professional stock finisher. I know stock finishes pretty well and there was really no finish on the Spartan, just a single thick coat of oil based stain slopped on with a rag and left to dry. I just wasn't up to a 20 coat hand rubbed finish for such an inexpensive rifle. So I just cleaned up the checkering and put a little Old English into the cuts for color, I lightly sanded only the lumpy splatters off the finish and gave the walnut stock about 10 coats of Johnson's Paste Wax over a few days. At least it won't absorb water in the rain and rub off now !!!!

This rifle is a shooter that I hope to see my grandson nail his first Whitetail with.

Gary

[JIMinPHX]

It sounds like you have things pretty well sorted out. It also sounds like you were the right guy to take on the tasks at hand.

The wedge lock that you describe sounds pretty close to what they had on the 12 gage double gun. If it will lock up a double 12, then that little rifle cartridge should present no challenge to it at all.

It sounds like that gun is very Russian, & by that I mean - built like a tank. I would not be surprised if that gun lasts to see your great great grandson take his first white tail, assuming that white tails are still around then & rifle hunting is still legal.

[Andy_P]

Another good photo essay by onondaga - thanks.

I have essentially the same gun (one in 7.62X39 and one in 7.62X54R), but mine are Baikals. The difference seems to be the stock wood - mine are birch and the Remington uses nicer walnut.

For scope mounting, I affixed a 4" weaver mount to the integral dovetail mount (drilled and tapped) and then used low rings. Less prone to slippage I think, and low enough that a cheek plant puts the scope right where it should be - no cheek piece required.

[rhbrink]

Now were talking a 7.62 X 54R does it have a better extractor for that big rimmed case? The one pictured for the 7.62 X 39 looks kind of "puny" might be OK just looks weak?

[onondaga]

I only have the rifle in one caliber, 7.62X39R. The extractor is plenty sturdy in my caliber. It engages the shell so firmly that extracted shells are a little difficult to get off the extractor and I have to give the shell a little twist. With the way Russians build guns, I'd bet that extractors in every caliber will be sturdy..

Gary

[doubs43]

My experience with Baikals is with shotguns..... more than half a dozen over the years. All of them - SxS & O/U - have been tough, reliable and accurate; worth every penny I paid for them.

In 1982 I joined the RAF Bentwaters R&G club to shoot skeet. I asked one of the better competitors what he thought of Baikal and his reply was "They're rubbish, Mate." I should have known better than to ask a man who was using a top-of-the-line Beretta costing thousands about a shotgun that could be purchased new for a few hundred. Others assured me that the Baikals were excellent value for the money so I bought a skeet & trap set with two sets of barrels & fore-ends matched to the receiver. I sold the set to a friend before leaving England and with well over 5,000 shells through it, the lock-up was as tight as the day I bought it. It never failed or gave me the least bit of trouble.

I presently own two Baikal shotguns; one I brought home from England (O/U) and one I recently bought that's marked Remington.... a SxS coach gun with working hammers. Both are just as tough and reliable as the first one I owned. Russian guns are not often "pretty" but they can be relied upon to do the job they were designed to do; working guns that work! I'll bet that the rifles are no exception.

[JIMinPHX]

Another good photo essay by onondaga - thanks.


Yes,
Thanks from me too. I found this thread very informative.

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/2C93F446E56FBE3/standard.jpg

7.62x39 & WC846 using Lee C309-160R for 25.0 = 1948 & 26.0 = 1999

Since you mentioned testing WC846. This was fired in a Small ring Mauser, 23" bbl .300" x .308". Fired at 50 yards, iron sights. Four nice and of course a flyer, but with visually inspected slugs and thrown powder charges, not bad I don't think.

http://www.fototime.com/83F2A6E353CFD83/standard.jpg

7.62x39 28.0 surp 4895, Lee C312-155-2R, 2018 fps

http://www.fototime.com/069E6778DCBCE1A/standard.jpg

7.62x39 & Lee C309-113F Soup Can using Wc846 at 28 & 29 grs for 2227 & 2283 fps. Just a 'one off' deal. No further work done with it.

...................Buckshot

[jlchucker]

I clicked on the link--these look like the some of the same Baikals that were imported before the Remington deal. I've got two--a 12 ga and a 16 ga side by side. I see the various barrel lengths for double shotguns are now limited. What's up with the weight of these guns as shown on that link, Onandaga? Is that single shot rifle really that heavy? Have they beefed them up since the Remington involvement?

[Walter Laich]

You did a great job refinishing it!

[onondaga]

The weights listed have to be an error. Mine weighs 8.5 pounds with scope mounted.. I got my brass all loaded again with workup loads, but we just got slammed with another foot and a half of snow and it is still coming down. Shooting is on hold again. Nothing more accurate than the H4895 load yet.

Gary

[seppos]

It is the greenhouse effect.. ;) unfortunately somebody did not remember to put the heating on the greenhouse..

S

[jlchucker]

The weights listed have to be an error. Mine weighs 8.5 pounds with scope mounted.. I got my brass all loaded again with workup loads, but we just got slammed with another foot and a half of snow and it is still coming down. Shooting is on hold again. Nothing more accurate than the H4895 load yet.

Gary

Thanks, Gary. We didn't get that much snow here this time, but it looks like more crappy weather on the way. I've been eyeing ads for these rifles for a few years now--I was thinking 30-06 for use as a cast-bullet only shooter. After following the comments on this thread, I think you may be on to something with that little 7.62x39 round. My mind this morning is wandering to my loading bench, where a Lyman 311316 mold is resting, waiting for spring. I've used this boolit for 30-30 plinkers, and I keep thinking that in that little Russian case, with a rifle like yours--D**n it, I think I'm going to have to buy a new gun and a set of dies now! These look like very nice rifles for the money!

[Freightman]

There is one over at Gunbroker NIB 30-06 for $200 buy it now price.

[excess650]

There is one over at Gunbroker NIB 30-06 for $200 buy it now price.

The 30-06 is definitely more versitile than the 7.62x39, so would be a bargain for someone wanting a Spartan. I say that having just bought a CZ 527 7.62x39 at a gunshow yesterday. I didn't see a single Spartan there, but several of the CZs. I already have several 30-06s that are fine cast boolit shooters, and was looking for something else. The CZ has a short barrel, 5 shot magazine, single set trigger and is very lightweight. The downside is that it takes specific rings to mount a scope and they are extra $. Oh, and yeah, the CZ is 2-1/2x-3x the $ as a Spartan.

[doubs43]

I say that having just bought a CZ 527 7.62x39 at a gunshow yesterday. I didn't see a single Spartan there, but several of the CZs. The downside is that it takes specific rings to mount a scope and they are extra $. Oh, and yeah, the CZ is 2-1/2x-3x the $ as a Spartan.

I have to wonder if your "dealer" stripped the rings from the package before selling you the rifle? I have two CZ-527 rifles in .223 and both came with factory rings in the box. Removing factory accessories - mags, rings etc. - and selling them separately is a common practice by some dealers so it's wise to know what should be in the box and let them know that you know. I consider the practice to be shady at best.

[excess650]

I have to wonder if your "dealer" stripped the rings from the package before selling you the rifle? I have two CZ-527 rifles in .223 and both came with factory rings in the box. Removing factory accessories - mags, rings etc. - and selling them separately is a common practice by some dealers so it's wise to know what should be in the box and let them know that you know. I consider the practice to be shady at best.

Did your CZ-527s have iron sights? The carbine HAS barrel sights. The dealer I bought it from didn't have rings(I asked), so they were ordered today.

[doubs43]

Did your CZ-527s have iron sights? The carbine HAS barrel sights. The dealer I bought it from didn't have rings(I asked), so they were ordered today.

One has barrel sights while the other doesn't. Both came with rings. One was purchased through Bud's Guns and the other from a local dealer.

[NHlever]

One has barrel sights while the other doesn't. Both came with rings. One was purchased through Bud's Guns and the other from a local dealer.

The last I knew, some CZ 527 rifles ship with rings, and some don't. The "American" should have rings, but I believe the Carbines don't. Burris also makes rings that fit and are less expensive.

[excess650]

The last I knew, some CZ 527 rifles ship with rings, and some don't. The "American" should have rings, but I believe the Carbines don't. Burris also makes rings that fit and are less expensive.

I purchased Burris rings from Midsouth along with a Lee c309-150f and they were delivered today. I mounted a Nikon 1.65-5x36 Slughunter this afternoon, and hope to get to the range tomorrow. Since its a bolt action, I started a new thread elsewhere. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=108785

[onondaga]

Some pokey loads grouped pretty bad today. With 19 gr. A5744 and the 150FNGC bullet, 50 yd groups were 3 to 3.5 inches- Pitiful!. Cartridge necks very blackened from low pressure also.

I jumped from 26.5 to 27.3 grains with the H4895 Group size stayed the same at 1.2" @50 yd. with the 150 gr FNGC. No pressure signs, I will crank this up

Two faster loads both grouped under an inch with the same bullet: 28 gr H335 did the best so far at .720" at 50 yds. According to my references a Jacketed bullet with that charge has a velocity of 2100 fps, so the cast would be faster likely by 100 fps or so. This load surprised me. I will work up the Accurate 2230 beyond this velocity and if it groups this well it will be the deer load. Got a lot of 2230 but that was the last of the H335. Very slight flattening of of primers, with the H335---getting there.

The 26 gr. of A2230 grouped 1.7" @50 and had A low pressure sign also, the necks of the brass slightly blackened.

Fired 50 rounds with the Spartan today, 2 bullets had dragged a little chambering, upon rolling them on the table for a visual of runout, they failed the visual.. My bullet seating is usually much better than that. I'd like to know exactly how I did that .

Before preparing the ammo for this trip , I re-checked for LOA, dropping a bullet in the chamber and using a depth gauge with some arithmetic to come up with a more accurate measurement. 2.120" LOA puts me .004 off the lands as best I can tell after 3 trials with 3 bullets. All today's loads were seated to that LOA with the .312" sized 150gr FNGC. ( BHN-14 )

I re-checked the LOA after noticing some land marks on unchambered rounds that were longer than 2.120" at a previous range trip. I feel good with the new LOA on the 7.62X29 with my rifle.

Gary

[excess650]

Some pokey loads grouped pretty bad today. With 19 gr. A5744 and the 150FNGC bullet, 50 yd groups were 3 to 3.5 inches- Pitiful!. Cartridge necks very blackened from low pressure also.

Gary

I wouldn't have expected blackened cases from low pressure at 19gr. One of my "go to" loads for my 336CB 30-30 is 17gr AA5744 under the 175gr Saeco #315. It is a little heavier, but the case is also a bit more voluminous, and I don't have that problem.

[NHlever]

One of the nice things about the 30-30 case for cast bullet use is the fact that the brass is on the thin side and conforms to the chamber at very low pressure. I sure wish there were a larger variety of guns available in that caliber. Since I can't hunt much these days, guns besides my lever guns have more appeal. The 7.62x39 is more like the .308 Winchester in construction, and it takes a bit more pressure to get it to seal. The 30-06 is better in that regard than the .308 Winchester, and the longer neck is nice too. I used 8 grains of Unique behind the Lyman 311008 for a nice light load, and it grouped very well out to 50 yards anyway, and did seal the cases in the chamber. For deer, I would perhaps try the Lee C-309-150-FN. I was casting some this morning, and was thinking they would probably feed pretty well out of a CZ, but maybe not out of a Mini-30 I've been looking at. The only problem there is gettnig a mold, or alloy that casts large enough. Mine drops boolits at closer to .310 than to .311. :D