Taurus PT 1911 ?

[pmer]

I was cleaning my Taurus PT 1911, 45 auto last night and noticed something that I would like to ask a question about.

Looking at the start of the rifling at the end of the chamber - on one side the rifling grove starts square and sharp, while on the other side of the chamber the groves start with a angle. Kinda like a tool or cutter was chamfering off center to the bore.

It's fairly new and my first guess is that this is bad. Looking for input.

[thegreatdane]

can we get a picture? Sound interesting...

[waksupi]

Sounds like standard Taurus quality.

[MtGun44]

Not normal, your diagnosis sounds like it would correct based on your observation.

I totally rebuilt one of these for a friend, which was cost effective because he bought it
slightly used for only $200 but malfunctioning seriously in the firing group area. I was
not at all impressed with the quality beyond the basic frame, slide and barrel which seemed
just fine on that example. I replaced almost the small parts with quality US parts and the gun
has been dead reliable and reasonably accurate since. All the internal parts of the gun
are re-engineered to make them most compatible with wide production tolerances to lower
cost. Some places this is kinda OK, others not so much. His hammer was following after
less than 1000 total rounds and the parts were marginally worth reworking, which lead to
the complete rebuild.

Not a ***, but not a top quality example of the 1911, either. Perfect for the person who's
budget is low and will not shoot it a great deal.

All this is based on a very detailed understanding of ONE pistol, YMMV.

Bill

[pmer]

My camera doesn't do too good at close up shots and wouldn't be very helpfull. It is less than 2 years old and has about 300 -400 rounds through it.

It seems to shoot OK.

Does anyone see any danager shooting it like this?
Would the issue be called a bad throat?

[MtGun44]

Can't see danger, might build up a bit of lead or copper jacket material in the area, and
may be picky about LOA and boolit shape, but it should be safe. If it meets your
accuracy requirements and is reliable, you have a good gun. Most people are
not expecting any service semiauto to be a target pistol, especially in the more
reasonable end of the price range. If this was in a $2000 pistol, I'd be cranky, even
if it worked perfectly. OTOH, in the PT1911 price range, perfection is an unreasonable
expectation. "Reasonable" accuracy and reliability should be expected, but definitions
vary.

"off center throat" or "misaligned throat" seem a bit more descriptive.

Are you pleased with the accy and reliability? If the answer is yes then "Don't worry. Be Happy!"
as the silly song advises.

Bill

[Gunsmoke4570]

When the Taurus PT1911 first came out they were really well made. Then after a few months the QA became spotty. I really don't see this being a safety or reliability issue. Taurus has a good reputation for taking care of issues. Give them a call, they may send you a new barrel.

[pmer]

Sounds good. I'll have to call them about the off center throat and see what they say. I had it out doing some bowling pin shooting and having fun with it.

[jmsj]

pmer,
My Taurus 1911 has similar issues to the ones you describe plus an oversize chamber. The other thing to keep an eye on is the ambidextrous safety. It can come loose and allow the thumb safety spring and pin to come out and lock up the pistol. I plan to replace that safety soon. Although this pistol is not very accurate, it does fire and chamber 100% with everything I have fed through it. Someday when I have the extra money, I plan to change out the barrel and see if that will help
Good luck, jmsj

[pmer]

pmer,
My Taurus 1911 has similar issues to the ones you describe plus an oversize chamber. The other thing to keep an eye on is the ambidextrous safety. It can come loose and allow the thumb safety spring and pin to come out and lock up the pistol. I plan to replace that safety soon. Although this pistol is not very accurate, it does fire and chamber 100% with everything I have fed through it. Someday when I have the extra money, I plan to change out the barrel and see if that will help
Good luck, jmsj

jmsj

Is your throat off center on the vertical plane like mine by any chance? I'm starting to think about staying away from a factory barrel. And I'm right handed so a standard saftey would work for me. All I've fired are 7.2 of uni. clays and 185 grain JHP and it feeds and ejects good. I guess I tried some unique too. :Fire:

Phil

[Black Prince]

pmer

Guns are no different than automobiles in that if you buy and shoot firearms very long, you are going to get one or more that have problems and you are going to get that with ANY and EVERY gun maker (or auto maker) out there. The issue you raised is NOT unique to Taurus. Taurus will fix or replace it quickly if you return it to them.

I shot 2700 Bullseye matches for 20 years as a younger man. I owned several fine Colt gold cups (every one of which was reworked by Frank Pachmayr) and a couple of custom built pistols. I own two 1911's now and a Taurus PT1911 is one of them. I bought it right after they first came out and have had NO ISSUES with it at all after I did the usual inside polish I do with EVERY 1911 I get. I actually SHOOT a 1911 and I have shot this Taurus. When I go to the range, I go early and take lunch and a water jug because I stay all day and SHOOT. I'll easily burn through 500 rounds in a day and I have been known to shoot a thousand in a day. My Taurus has had probably 10 to 12,000 rounds through it without a hitch. It is not a master class 2700 Bullseye pistol, (I still have one of those) but capable of very respectable accuracy, certainly more than enough for an everyday 1911. As someone mentioned in this thread previously, I do not like the ambidextrous safety either, but I don't like them PERIOD. They are a solution to a problem that does not exist. You can replace it with a strong right hand safety only as I have done. It was not a functioning problem, but I have been using John Brownings safety for so long I just never did acclimate to some jazzbo's extra lever sticking out on my pistol.

I had a problem with a Taurus revolver about five years ago. I sent it back and it was returned two weeks later at no charge and the issue was completely resolved and I've had no others with it since then. I own three Taurus pistols/revolvers and am very happy with them. I also own Smith's, Ruger's and Colt's and they are more finely finished inside and out than the Taurus, but other than that, I can see no other major difference. Considering the price difference between a new Smith or Colt and a Taurus, the finish is not a problem for me
(because I polish it on the inside anyway), but then, I SHOOT a pistol or revolver and don't sit around examining them under a magnifying glass.

My guns get mud in them because they are in a holster (or stuck in my belt) while I am building or repairing a 4 wheeler bridge over a creek or field drain. It is about then that I see a coyote or some other critter like a big cottonmouth that needs to be shot. I shoot my guns a lot because I never go out without one or more of them with me and like as not, you will find mud in the checkering and other places. The stainless steel on the Taurus is nice to have when you use pistols and revolvers in the field.

So don't start thinking that your Taurus is a piece of junk. It isn't, but it, like any of the others, may have issues now and then. Any mechanical device will have them at one time or another and a firearm is a mechanical device. If you think the problem you describe is something dangerous or it is causing problems, return it to Taurus and THEY WILL FIX IT and you will not be charged. That is all any of the other makers would do even if you had a top of the line Smith, Colt, or Ruger, and over the years, I've had problems with all of them, mainly because I just wore out some of the parts. (Hands (cylinder ratchet) on revolvers are prone to wear causing the cylinder to be out of time.) The good news is that every one of them fixed the problem and I've never been charged a single nickel. That speaks well for the firearms industry.

A pistol is not a watch. It isn't there to be admired and gently wound every day. It's a tool and if you use it, it is going to wear, or get dropped, or fall overboard, or discombobulated every now and then. If you are at all mechanically inclined, you can generally fix it yourself. I have a bunch of GI 1911 small parts I buy at gun shows and keep them handy. If you use your pistols very much, you ought to do the same.

All the best.

[pmer]

Black Prince
Thanks for your perspective. Problem is that every time I clean it, it will bug me and I'll have to eventually do something about it. Good point on "just send it in", I am sure they'll take care of it like you say.

Phil

[jmsj]

pmer,
Mine is off up and towards the 2:00 o'clock position. I guess I could send it in but gunsmith instructor has told me he has seen barrels that have been replaced by the factory and while they are better, they are still not that great a barrel.
As for ammo, I have fired 230 grain hardball, 200 grain H&G 68's, 200 grain Lyman 452460's, some store bought 200 grain truncated cone bullets and others. I cannot remember a failure to feed or failure to fire.
I have a Taurus 5 shot, 3" fixed sight barrel .357 that I sometime use as CCW gun and after I did a trigger job on it, it is a keeper. So I don't think Taurus guns are junk. The 1911 is just not the hand fitted gun that it was advertised to be. For what I paid for my SS 1911 ($470.00 out the door), I didn't expect a match winning pistol. Both of these guns go bang every time.
Good luck,jmsj

[bjeffv]

dont feel bad about the problem with the taurus. I have a kimber from the factory that has an oversized chamber (bullet rattles if inserted into stripped barrel), the barrel locking lugs were fit wrong, ambi safety broke after 2000 rounds, and the extractor needs replacing at 3000 rounds.

It shoots a circle of bullets from a rest around my point of aim.

i.e. I am sticking parts and money into what should have been a good gun.

[arjacobson]

pmer

Guns are no different than automobiles in that if you buy and shoot firearms very long, you are going to get one or more that have problems and you are going to get that with ANY and EVERY gun maker (or auto maker) out there. The issue you raised is NOT unique to Taurus. Taurus will fix or replace it quickly if you return it to them.

I shot 2700 Bullseye matches for 20 years as a younger man. I owned several fine Colt gold cups (every one of which was reworked by Frank Pachmayr) and a couple of custom built pistols. I own two 1911's now and a Taurus PT1911 is one of them. I bought it right after they first came out and have had NO ISSUES with it at all after I did the usual inside polish I do with EVERY 1911 I get. I actually SHOOT a 1911 and I have shot this Taurus. When I go to the range, I go early and take lunch and a water jug because I stay all day and SHOOT. I'll easily burn through 500 rounds in a day and I have been known to shoot a thousand in a day. My Taurus has had probably 10 to 12,000 rounds through it without a hitch. It is not a master class 2700 Bullseye pistol, (I still have one of those) but capable of very respectable accuracy, certainly more than enough for an everyday 1911. As someone mentioned in this thread previously, I do not like the ambidextrous safety either, but I don't like them PERIOD. They are a solution to a problem that does not exist. You can replace it with a strong right hand safety only as I have done. It was not a functioning problem, but I have been using John Brownings safety for so long I just never did acclimate to some jazzbo's extra lever sticking out on my pistol.

I had a problem with a Taurus revolver about five years ago. I sent it back and it was returned two weeks later at no charge and the issue was completely resolved and I've had no others with it since then. I own three Taurus pistols/revolvers and am very happy with them. I also own Smith's, Ruger's and Colt's and they are more finely finished inside and out than the Taurus, but other than that, I can see no other major difference. Considering the price difference between a new Smith or Colt and a Taurus, the finish is not a problem for me
(because I polish it on the inside anyway), but then, I SHOOT a pistol or revolver and don't sit around examining them under a magnifying glass.

My guns get mud in them because they are in a holster (or stuck in my belt) while I am building or repairing a 4 wheeler bridge over a creek or field drain. It is about then that I see a coyote or some other critter like a big cottonmouth that needs to be shot. I shoot my guns a lot because I never go out without one or more of them with me and like as not, you will find mud in the checkering and other places. The stainless steel on the Taurus is nice to have when you use pistols and revolvers in the field.

So don't start thinking that your Taurus is a piece of junk. It isn't, but it, like any of the others, may have issues now and then. Any mechanical device will have them at one time or another and a firearm is a mechanical device. If you think the problem you describe is something dangerous or it is causing problems, return it to Taurus and THEY WILL FIX IT and you will not be charged. That is all any of the other makers would do even if you had a top of the line Smith, Colt, or Ruger, and over the years, I've had problems with all of them, mainly because I just wore out some of the parts. (Hands (cylinder ratchet) on revolvers are prone to wear causing the cylinder to be out of time.) The good news is that every one of them fixed the problem and I've never been charged a single nickel. That speaks well for the firearms industry.

A pistol is not a watch. It isn't there to be admired and gently wound every day. It's a tool and if you use it, it is going to wear, or get dropped, or fall overboard, or discombobulated every now and then. If you are at all mechanically inclined, you can generally fix it yourself. I have a bunch of GI 1911 small parts I buy at gun shows and keep them handy. If you use your pistols very much, you ought to do the same.

All the best.

JAZZBO--Haven't heard that since reading "Unrepentant sinner"!!!:bigsmyl2:

[P.K.]

A pistol is not a watch. It isn't there to be admired and gently wound every day. It's a tool and if you use it, it is going to wear, or get dropped, or fall overboard, or discombobulated every now and then. If you are at all mechanically inclined, you can generally fix it yourself. I have a bunch of GI 1911 small parts I buy at gun shows and keep them handy. If you use your pistols very much, you ought to do the same.

All the best.This right here is about all that needs to be said. ;-) The whole post though is spot on. It brings to mind a trip to the range one time near my old home. A "friend of a friend" showed up with his "pride and joy" and proceeded to spout the virtues of all the modifications he'd made to it. O-k says I, "lets see it run." It didn't. While mine did, a "Calico" I call it because it's made up of parts bought out of Shotgun News. It may look like a paper weight but it runs and is my familys go to gun if trouble comes knocking.

[S.R.Custom]

Black Prince
Thanks for your perspective. Problem is that every time I clean it, it will bug me and I'll have to eventually do something about it. Good point on "just send it in", I am sure they'll take care of it like you say.

Phil

This problem is actually pretty common, it's just that most folks don't notice. The most egregious offenders I've seen have been Gen III S&W autos. In addition to off-center chambers, the S&Ws commonly had rifling with some grooves deeper than others...

Taurus Customer service is as spotty as their QC. And they're not just going to send you a new barrel for the asking. You'll have to send your gun in, and it may be months before you get your gun back. And there's no guarantee the replacement will be any better.

There are enough drop-in replacement barrels of semi-match quality out there for not a lot of coin --about what it costs to FedEx your gun to Taurus & back-- that it makes no sense to be without your .45 at all. The fact that you're sharp enough to spot a crappy chamber job indicates to me you're sharp enough to replace your own barrel and appreciate the difference. Don't forget to get a new bushing as well. Have fun! :D

[pmer]

Say I was looking at the semi drop in kits and was wondering about the ramped vs non ramped. The PT 1911 does not have a ramped barrel out of the box. Which would work better for SWC style boolits?

[MtGun44]

Either works just fine for feeding in the 1911 in .45 ACP. The ramped barrel was
introduced to provide a higher pressure capability for .38 Super loads that were being
pushed HARD to make major caliber in IPSC competition guns and needed maximum
chamber support.

Bill

[HeavyMetal]

The ramped barrel requires machining of the frame and is supposed to help control support of the base of the round and has nothing to do with what the gun will or will not feed.

[pmer]

Reporting back on this project; I sold some Kohler engine stuff to cover costs and went with a Wilson drop in kit. I had to use my link and pin and the bushing needed fitting to the slide and to the barrel.

The fit of the old bushing to slide was pretty loose and I set the fit of the new bushing much tighter to the slide. So now it turns a little hard and doesn't fall out of the slide.

Then I honed the barrel side of the bushing so the barrel locks and unlocks with out binding and I can turn the bushing when the barrel is locked or in battery.

I cycled some snap caps through it and fired just 11 rounds so far. I'm wondering if this sounds good, maybe slide to bushing doesn't need to be so tight?

Next on my list is to assemble an AR upper. I have all the parts now and a nice DTI take off barrel that already has the extension on it.

[MtGun44]

Sounds good to me. As long as you can take it off with a wrench, it is good. I
prefer to start out a bit "too" tight, as it will loosen up with time.

Bill