8mm Mauser question

[SciFiJim]

I picked up a 8mm Mauser and am currently cleaning it up. I know the brass can be made from 30-06 cases and have made up a few. Just out of curiosity, I dropped a spent 30-06 case into the the chamber and tried to close the bolt. I expected to not be able to close the bolt because of the extra length of the 30-06 case. The bolt closed with only needing a little firm push on the handle to get it to lock down. I haven't tried it with a dummy round yet, just the spent cartridge. Is this going to be a problem?

[dualsport]

That sounds wrong. A 30-06 case is about 1/4" longer than an 8mm Mauser. Check the barrel carefully for any stamping indicating it has been rechambered, possibly 8mm-06. I wouldn't fire any ammo at all in it 'til I was sure about the chambering. Know the history of the gun? It is easy to do a chamber cast, or have a gunsmith check it out. Shooting the wrong ammo in it could be a disaster.

[mooman76]

It should fit like you said but because the 30.06 neck is smaller than the 8mm. The neck is fitting in where the bullet would go.

[SciFiJim]

Does the 8mm index on the shoulder of the cartridge? I was expecting the shoulder of the 30-06 to be the stopping point when trying to chamber it. It's a K.Kale Mauser.

There are no stamping to indicate any rechambering. When I slugged the bore, I get .3235 groove diameter. I got the rifle in a shop that was selling it on consignment. From the cosmoline that I had to clean out, it doesn't look like it has been fired since it was originally stored by the Turks.

[PAT303]

It can and does happen.Twice I have seen 8x57 mauser rounds fired in a 30/06 rifle and once a 270 in a 8x57 rifle.On the same day a 8mm went down the '06 tube a 223 went down a 7.62x39.It makes you wonder if we should let Darwins theory play it's natural course. Pat

[SciFiJim]

Since I don't want to be in the running for a Darwin Award, I am trying to find out if my rifle has a problem. I guess my next step is to neck size a 30-06 case with my 8mm dies and make a dummy round and see how that fits.

[excess650]

Judging by the dimensions in Hornady's manual, I wouldn't think you could close the bolt on an '06 case. The shoulder on the '06 is forward by nearly 1/8" and some .010" larger in diameter at the shoulder. I HAVE a K Kale 1944 so will check....nope, stops short enough that the safety lug is exposed from the rear ring by 1/16" or so, and that's with a FL sized '06 case.

You shoud do a chamber cast, or at least expand some 30-06s to 35cal and then size to 8mm with the FL sizer backed out. Check to see if it stops on the case mouth or on the shoulder. It needs to headspace on the shoulder!

[gnoahhh]

You definitely have a bastard chamber. I just tried to load a .30/06 cartridge case in 4 different 8x57s. No go. Not even close.

[WILCO]

I know the brass can be made from 30-06 cases and have made up a few.

Are you sure you didn't drop in one of your converted cases?

[dragonrider]

Make a Chamber cast.

[Larry Gibson]

Are you sure you didn't drop in one of your converted cases?

If you didn't do this and the rifle did, in fact, chamber an '06 case then the rifle has been rechambered to 8mm-'06. It was a common conversion some years back for those who didn't want to reform cases.'

Larry Gibson

[WILCO]

I am trying to find out if my rifle has a problem.

Take it to a qualified gunsmith.

[Char-Gar]

Unless this was one of your converted 06 cases, you have a real problem.

[mooman76]

On second thought I had it reversed. An 8mm will fit into an 06 chamber even though bigger around, it is shorter.

[SciFiJim]

If you didn't do this and the rifle did, in fact, chamber an '06 case then the rifle has been rechambered to 8mm-'06. It was a common conversion some years back for those who didn't want to reform cases.'

I haven't had time to check yet, but actually hope this is the case. It would be pretty cool to have a 8mm-06. I think it would be an excellent cast boolit gun with a wide variety of choices for powder.

[rtracy2001]

I have a spare K. Kale Turk barrel that I am constantly tripping over, so I dropped a loaded '06 round into it. It sticks out about 1/4".

Sounds like you may have an 8mm-06 instead of an 8x57.

That K. Kale should be a large ring reciever with the small ring barrel, right? Let me know if you want a barrel, I'm just tripping over this one, so I'm sure we can work something out.

RT

[SciFiJim]

rtracy, Thanks for the offer. I will find out what I have first. I just looked to see what reloading dies in 8mm-06 cost and was shocked. I guess I am used to common caliber die prices.

[Char-Gar]

A couple of thoughts.

1. Doing our thinking BEFORE we post is always a good idea.
2. Reading our post BEFORE we hit the submit button is also a good idea.

[rtracy2001]

I just looked to see what reloading dies in 8mm-06 cost and was shocked.

Absolutely insane when you consider it is just a neck up from 30-06, the most reloaded caliber on earth IIRC. Makes you want to buy a Lee RGB die set for 30-06 and ream it out.

Check clearance racks at large sporting chains like sportsman's warehouse. I found my RCBS set for $20 on clearance (must have got one by mistake and didn't know what they had.)



A couple of thoughts.

1. Doing our thinking BEFORE we post is always a good idea.
2. Reading our post BEFORE we hit the submit button is also a good idea.

I think Chargar is trying to say that speculation will only take anyone so far and it is time to do a chamber cast to find out what you have. either that or he is upset about my i before e except after c flub when I misspelled receiver. ;)

[45-70 Chevroner]

SciFiJim: Slug the bore, and take a chamber cast as mentioned by some others. If it has been rechambered for 8mm 06 your only option is to shoot cast. Lee makes a nice 8mm mold.

[excess650]

ummmmm.....me thinks Jim HAS a really nice 8mm mold.:bigsmyl2:

He was the Honcho for the fat 323471 group buy.:cbpour:

[SciFiJim]

I slugged the bore and got .3235. I need to order some cerrosafe and make a chamber cast.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Any of you readers old enough to remember the old wives tale about how the Germans in WW2 could use our M 1 Garand ammo in their Mausers?Robert

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Any of you readers old enough to remember the old wives tale about how the Germans in WW2 could use our M 1 Garand ammo in their Mausers?Robert

I heard that too. I never had any reason to look into it and verify it. I always assumed it was true.

Regards,
Everett

[1Shirt]

I well remember hearing that old wives tale when I was a kid. However, when I started reloading I learned quickly that it was just that-an old wives tale. Matter of fact I also heard that you could also shoot 06 in a Jap as well. Gotta wonder who starts that stuff.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[KCSO]

If it has been rechambered for 8mm 06 your only option is to shoot cast.

Huh! I shoot 8mm jacketed slugs in mine with no problem. Did I miss something?

Actually Hornady for years published loading data for the 8-06 as it was so popular in the 50-60"s. My Hornady handbook shows a 150 jacketed slug at 3000 fps or about 100 fps faster than the 8MM. But IF the rifle is rechambered you should be able to close the bolt on a resized 30-06 with no effort. A case fired in another rifle might be a tight fit. I don't remember if I have a reamer for 8-06 yet or not, I'll have to look.

[gnoahhh]

Funny thing those old wive's tales. I met an old WWII GI who swore up and down that he carried a "30-30" Carbine.

[Multigunner]

I slugged the bore and got .3235. I need to order some cerrosafe and make a chamber cast.

Theres a very rare Swedish version of the K98 that was chambered for a long case 8mm round developed for long range MG fire. They used a modified Browning MG chambered for this round and gun crews were issued the special rifles chambered for the same cartridge.
The case is somewhat like the 8mm-06 wildcat , but has a slightly larger diameter casehead.
Original barrels had a muzzle brake milled integral to the barrel muzzle.

There are very few of those rifles still around. Many were sold to Israel and those were rebarreled to 7.92X57 and/or 7.62 NATO.

There were a few long case 8mm sporting rifle cartridges developed before WW2. IIRC some mausers were chambered for a longer cartridge as an experiment. They decided not to adopt the longer cartridge. One of the NAZI bigwigs had a rifle in that chambering in his collection, I think it was Goering.

PS
There are a very few rifles that have chambers close enough to that of a similar caliber that one can be used in the other but not vice versa. The 6.5 Greek and 6.5 Italian is one such combo. I forget which fits the chamber of the other.

[SciFiJim]

If it has been rechambered for 8mm 06 your only option is to shoot cast.

Huh! I shoot 8mm jacketed slugs in mine with no problem. Did I miss something?

He was probably thinking having to shoot hand loaded instead of commercial. Besides, if it is hand loaded in my home it will be loaded with cast boolits.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I well remember hearing that old wives tale when I was a kid. However, when I started reloading I learned quickly that it was just that-an old wives tale. Matter of fact I also heard that you could also shoot 06 in a Jap as well. Gotta wonder who starts that stuff.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

There is a grain of truth to this, though it has been twisted pretty far afield from where it is true.

The real story is that American 81mm mortar rounds could be fired in enemy 82mm mortars, but not the reverse. Of course, this is even in the wrong war -- In Korea, the Chinese and No. Koreans could hang our 81s in their 82mm tube, but not vice-versa. Because the Germans used 81mm mortars, the same as us, theoretically, either side could use either's ammo...

[SciFiJim]

OK, after a little more tinkering I found that I do not have a 8mm-06. I necked up a piece of 06 brass and tried to chamber and close the bolt. The bolt stopped about a quarter inch from closing. That's about the difference in length in 8x57 and 30-06 brass.

So I started over again and tried to repeat the results of the first experiment. No luck. When trying to close the bolt on unexpanded 30-06 brass, I could get it closer to closing but could not close the bolt like before. As someone suggested, I must have grabbed a piece of already resized and cut down brass before. Without comparing side by side, I didn't recognize the difference.

I am still going to do a chamber cast to find out what I have.

The lesson learned is that unless you absolutely know the entire history of a rifle, make SURE of what you have before trying to fire anything through it.

[Char-Gar]

I have converted many 30-06 cases (GI and commercial) to 8X57. In every case, it took a final pass through a full length 8X57 sizing die, with the die properly adjusted for the cases to chamber smoothly in the 8mm rifle.

Have you done this?

[SciFiJim]

I have converted many 30-06 cases (GI and commercial) to 8X57. In every case, it took a final pass through a full length 8X57 sizing die, with the die properly adjusted for the cases to chamber smoothly in the 8mm rifle.

Have you done this?

When I first got the rifle, I didn't have any 8mm brass yet. I converted about a dozen 30-06 pieces using the following procedure.

1. run the 30-06 brass into a 8mm full length sizing die with the sizing rod removed.

2. cut off most of extra length with dremel cut off wheel.

3. run brass through the sizing die again with the sizing rod installed to neck the brass up to 8mm.

4. trim to final length using a Lee case trimmer.

They chamber fine. However, I need to find a way to mark them as NOT 30-06 any more. I have not handled enough to spot the difference just holding one piece in my hand. The difference is best spotted by having a reference case of each type in front of me when handling the converted brass and 30-06 brass.

[Moonie]

I have decided that since we have 2 30-06's in the family (2 of my sons) I will not use 30-06 headstamped brass to make 8x57, I will however use military and any case based on 30-06.

[BABore]

SciFiJim: Slug the bore, and take a chamber cast as mentioned by some others. If it has been rechambered for 8mm 06 your only option is to shoot cast. Lee makes a nice 8mm mold.

So 8mm jacketed bullets won't work in a 8mm-06. Huh!:confused:

[Char-Gar]

Get a cheap bottle of gawdy finger nail polish and fill the 30-06 on the head of the case. Rub it accross some fine emery to remove everything, but that in the markings. You can tell at a glance which brass you have.

[CWME]

I have decided that since we have 2 30-06's in the family (2 of my sons) I will not use 30-06 headstamped brass to make 8x57, I will however use military and any case based on 30-06.

This is what I did before I found some RP 8mm brass. I used Lake City for 8mm and commercial stamped 30-06 for my 30-06.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I have decided that since we have 2 30-06's in the family (2 of my sons) I will not use 30-06 headstamped brass to make 8x57, I will however use military and any case based on 30-06.

I wouldn't mess with converting 30-06 at all. I'd get on Graf's website and order some correct-headstamped, already-formed, brand-new 8x57mm brass:

Graf's 8x57 Mauser brass page (http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/787)

The Prvi Partisan brass is very good quality, quite inexpensive (compared to the other three brands for sale, Norma, Winchester, and Remington), and available now. $40 for 100.