Standard or Mag primers for 357 Mag?

[Tristan]

I have generally been loading for my 357 using 38 brass with WSP primers. I am planning on purchasing some more primers, and loading some full-house mags in new Win 357 brass I have set aside. The powder will be either wc820 or AA#9, or perhaps 296/H110 under a 170gr Keith or the 357156GC.

Given the types of powder, would I be better served by buying mag primers (Mag-Tech's are available to me) or sticking with the WSP's?

Thanks,

Tristan

[Jon K]

What are you going to shoot this in?

Try Federal 205 Small Rifle.

Jon

[454PB]

Using the powders you listed (and I do), I would use the magnum primers.

[MT Gianni]

Winchester considers their primer suitable for both magnum and regular primer use. They are the only manufacturer that does as I recall, but recommend their primers for 296, which I think takes a hard ignitor like a magnum primer. They work but expermentation will let you find out if others work better in your gun.Gianni.

[9.3X62AL]

In 357 magnum, I use CCI 550's with WW-296 and H-110--WSP's with most other powders.

[fecmech]

I run the 358429 ahead of wc820, 296, and AA9 using Federal sp's and Rem 1 1/2's with excellent accuracy and ballistic uniformity. I have, in the past used CCI 550's and Rem 5 1/2's( their mag primer) with those loads but saw no advantages either on the target or the chronograph. I'd go with what works best for you. Nick

[44man]

Fellas, 296 and H110 does NOT need mag primers! It depends more on the cartridge then the powder. Some benefit and some don't. The only way to find out is to work loads with each primer and compare the accuracy. When I say work loads, I don't mean to take the best load with one primer and just change the primer! The first thing to do is to get off the highest velocity bandwagon and look for what shoots best.

[Bass Ackward]

The first thing to do is to get off the highest velocity bandwagon and look for what shoots best.


Huh! What! Did he say that? :grin:

I had coffee commin out my nose on that one!

[44man]

Bass, yup, I did say that! Accuracy is king, not speed.

[Tristan]

What are you going to shoot this in?

Try Federal 205 Small Rifle.

Jon



A model 19, and with luck oneday soon either a 1894 Marlin or a Puma 92... [smilie=1:

[JSH]

38's and light loads I use the Rem 1 1/2. With full blown true magnum loads that are running prtty hard, I use FGM small rifle or the Rem BR small rifle, depends on which gun I am shooting.
I have found though that the plain jane small pistol primers work better than the hot ones for most of my shooting.
Jeff

[9.3X62AL]

44 Man--

You are likely correct, but seeing that the powder makers recommend magnum caps for these fuels--and that relaoding manuals generally follow suit--I just use the mag primers with those two powders. I haven't tried standard primers with these powders, so I can't comment from experience on the practice. I'm pretty happy with the accuracy results, though.

I have tried both primer types with WC-820, and can't discern an advantage between the two types. The same thing could occur with H-110 and WW-296, for all I know.

[Glen]

44Man -- I respectfully disagree. In my neck of the woods (Pacific Northwest) 296 and H110 DO need magnum primers, maybe not in the summer months, but once the temperatures start to drop, then misfires become common place with those powders if standard primers are used. Magnum primers still give me fine accuaracy (certainly better than I'm capable of holding with an iron-sighted revolver), and they go Bang! everytime I drop the hammer, summer or winter.

[44man]

Yes, yes, yes, conditions mean a lot! That is why I say each needs to be tested. Where I live, mag primers in the .44 and .45 will triple group size. But if you are in extreme conditions, the mag primer should be used.
I just say the manuals are wrong by stating the mag primer is the only one to use. This is something only you can determine according to the accuracy you get in the weather you have to shoot in. The only thing I am saying is to not stick to what is said, but test for yourself.
Cold weather loads are always different then hot weather loads and the primer is as important as the powder. In milder weather, the mag primer can make a load shoot very bad but in a different caliber it might be needed in any weather.
Load development is up to each of you, where you shoot, when you shoot, how hot or cold it is, what caliber you have, etc. I only say to not fall into the idea that only one type of primer will work for a certain powder!

[BruceB]

One of the great things about this place is that everyone brings different experiences to the table. This thread is a perfect indication. It makes us THINK.

For my part, I don't believe I've ever used a magnum primer in a .357 load, but that's because I've used 2400 as my standard powder for quite a while.

However, I burned a LOT of H110 in the .44 Ruger pistols, and much of it was fired in waaaaayyy sub-zero temperatures in the Far North. I either used mag pistol primers or standard Large Rifle primers for this duty, and they both worked well in the .44, at any temperature. Lately I've simplified things, and now use 2400 in ALL the magnums, .357/.41/.44, for my magnum-level loads.

[Jon K]

44,

I'll agree with that- conditions and temperature.
Experiment- test-experimnt-retest. Use the chronograph, that what it's made for, consistancy is a good indicator of potential accuracy. Accuracy is the Key. I try to develop a load that will shoot year round with maximum accuracy.
I don't like changing the load cause it's too hot or too cold.

For myself, I found that the small rifle primer show consistant performance year round, in all conditions. I shoot mainly silhoutte, so the light load 38 special, 45 acp and 9 mm variety are not even on my list to use.
When I did shoot light subsonic loads, I had to keep too much inventory. I know the stores loved it, but it looked like I had a distribution center here, aand my checkbook was alway light from making bulk buys.

Jon

:castmine:

[Joey]

I will use the standard primer in the .357 Magnum, but if I see powder still in the case after I fired, I will try the Magnum primer for my next reloading session. Sometimes it works and sometimes it don't.

[versifier]

Buy a package (100) of each and see for yourself what shoots best, or buy a brick (1000) of each and do more extensive testing. Every gun/barrel is different. Shoot the best loads of both in summer and winter. The only time IMO they will make a big difference in ignition will be really cold (sub-zero) weather, but you may find the mag primers more accurate, too. My m19 liked CCI550"s with Unique a little better, (doesn't mean your's will or won't, and you could only see the diifference between them from a rest), but my 686 doesn't care either way. I have tried both in both revolvers and with both .38spec and .357mag cases and concluded that they were pretty much interchangable. (Full power loads in my Contender with Blue Dot shoot noticably better with 550's, and I don't shoot .38spec out of it, but it's not a revolver and doesn't behave like one.)

[lovedogs]

Interior ballistics can do freaky things sometimes. I've noticed that many are suggesting using standard primers with slow and ball powders nowadays. Bad idea. There's a reason some of the manuals say to use mag primers with slower and ball powders. You may get along for years ignoring their good advice but if you ever have one of the "unexplained freaky accidents" your thinking will change. Also, as mentioned, you can run into problems with standard primers in cold weather. I've talked with at least one ballistician who was adamant about proper use of primers. And I once talked to a technical person at Ruger who had seen many cases of guns blown up due to using standard primers with slow or ball powders. Interior ballistics, like I said, can do freaky things. I always use mag primers with powders slower than 4895 and all ball powders. I've never had a problem and never suffered any adverse results. Accuracy is just fine, etc. Why not use the mag primers? There's no reason not to.

[44man]

I can agree with a lot of that but I think a reduced load of slow powder is MUCH more dangerous. I always use just under max where the accuracy is but some of my best are right at max. With extreme cold, the hot primer is safer by far. With moderate temperatures, the standard primer has more then enough heat. With all of the .44's I have owned and an estimated 400,000 rounds from them all, only a few test loads were shot with mag primers. All the rest were with Fed 150's and 296 powder.
Some calibers do need the mag primer for accuracy no matter what, but some don't need them as long as conditions justify it.

[44man]

If you look at my new avitar, the 45-70 uses the Fed LP mag primer. The rifle primers are dismal in it. The .475 MUST use the mag primer or it just will not group. However my .44's and .45's hate the mag primer. The .357 can go both ways and most love a mag primer. I would still test both.

[45r]

Im thinking about going to a 180GC flat point in my 357 and have had some luck with 14.0 2400 with a standard primer and the 358156 lymanGC.357 S&W revolvers get a little loose after a while and me wants a longer bullet to bring back the accuracy my 27 had in the beginning.The long flat nose I think helps guide the bullet in the cone if things are not perfect like say a F/A revolver.I have tried a lot of powders in 357 but 2400 seems to be the best and it doesnt need or like mag primers.I read in handloader magazine that you get better velocity and lower pressure with 2400 using a standard primer and the right powder charge.My 27 use to shoot one hole groups with the 358156 bullets and 2400 but now throws one or two out a inch or so.Dont know if its me ,the bullets,or the gun.Hate it when that happens.

[monadnock#5]

The Mod. 19 is sleek and racy, but a bit on the dainty side. I have one, but I only use mid range loads with it. If you're looking for shock and awe, and huge fireballs, get yourself a Ruger Blackhawk/Redhawk, or a Smith N frame.

Ken

[45r]

I felt the shock,awe, and seen the fireball once my when 454 casull thumped me on the top of my forehead shooting a 1780 fps 300 grain cast bullet.wiped the blood off and shot 20 or so more and now keep the 300s in the 1600 range.I have 2 hawks,3 Ns,a flattop NF and a F/A.I dropped a couple big deer with one of the Ns and the big swamp buck was looking at me when he seen the fireball,felt the shock and I was awed again seeing what the good ol high shoulder shot does to MR OLD swamp buck.

[Treeman]

I prefer WSPs for everything in the .357. My favorite load is 9.7 grains of Blue Dot behind a 160grSWC but I had no problems with WSPs and 2400 (And of course no prob with Unique. Red Dot and PB) Never tried H110.

[Joey]

I also have a Mdl. 19 with 6"bbl. I have never shied away from full loads with it as I do with my Ruger Security-Six also with 6"bbl. I have been doing this for a number of years and the Mdl. 19 is still tight.