Kel tec P3AT or Ruger LCP

[fecmech]

I have seen both guns in the store and will shoot a Ruger this week. Any pros and cons from any of you who have had experience with both?? Locally I can buy the Kel Tec for $239 and the Ruger is $289 so I'm wondering is there really a $50 difference mechanically or from a reliability standpoint. Thanks Nick

[Finster101]

Can't say about the ruger. I have shot my kel-tec p32 a lot. I carry it almost everyday and do little else other than wipe it down. When I get to the range I change mags and go at it. I have fired several mags of my carry ammo to make sure it feeds okay, so I don't burn up the expensive stuff at the range now. I am ashamed to say how much pocket lint I have cleaned out of it after a range session, but it never missed a beat. I am very happy with the little kel-tec.

James

[Treeman]

I have a pair of Keltecs. My shooting buddy has Keltecs a Ruger, a Kahr and a Sig. We've shot them all and we both carry the P3ats. The Keltecs seem to have the best triggers, and ours are very reliable. The Ruger is little different.... but it tends to drop its mag during pocket carry. The P3ats don't.

[Gunsmoke4570]

The Ruger is pretty much a KelTec knock off with better fit and finish. Mechanically they are essentially the same.

[Daddyfixit]

I own both KelTec 32 and a Ruger lcp 380. Without getting into the cal variants, the fit and finnish on the Ruger is superior. The grips feel much nicer on the Ruger. I carry the guns in my pocket and had proplems with the KelTec rusting. With that being said the KelTec nor the Ruger ever had a malfuntion. Your prices seem a little better then here. I paid $325 for my LCP at my local shop.
My 2 cents...if the money isn't an issue, buy the Ruger LCP

[XBT]

I have owned both and although they are very similar the Ruger is the one I would choose. It appears obviously better in overall quality and mine has given me no problems at all. The Kel-tec occasionally failed to feed properly and ejected brass wildly, sometimes hitting my face. I sold it and kept the Ruger.

[MtGun44]

Original innovative inventor or big company knock off? Ruger has done the
LCP and now they copied the PF-9, too. I had to laugh at the PF-9 ripoff - there
are THREE extra safety systems in the gun adding 18 TINY little parts with micro
springs that will be a PITA to clean, so will not get cleaned much and will eventually
screw up/stick - no doubt failing in the SAFE position so you can't make it work.

For the LCP vs P3AT - more difficult to say, I don't think they got in such a
"lather over lawyers" with that one, but not certain it doesn't have extra tiny parts to
go bad. SIMPLE is better, my P3AT works just fine.

OTOH, if I were given the assignment by Ruger to design a super light CCW .380
today . . . . . . . . . well, let's say even without actually copying anything, it would
look a LOT like a P3AT, so kinda hard to blame them TOO much. Superior is
superior. Ever think how few semiauto pistols aren't really just reworks of the
1911 and P-35 designs? Only the Walther locking block types (Ber 92) are really
much different except for the firing works until you get to the Glocks.

Bill

[GH1]

I own the K-T and have shot about 50 rounds through the LCP. If you decide to get the K-T buy a mag extension for it, the gun will be much more comtrollable. I found the LCP to be easier to handle than the K-T due to the OEM mag extension and fatter grip. I also like how the LCP can lock the slide in the open position, the K-T can't. Other than that, it's a toss up,really.
GH1

[GH1]

One more thing, both pistols shot 100 gr cast truncated cone and 98 gr RNFP with ease.
GH1

[fecmech]

Original innovative inventor or big company knock off?
Bill

Bill- That's been my feeling from the start but I wanted to get input from those who have used both. I appreciate everyone who has taken the time and effort to respond and I thank you all. A friend has an LCP which I intend to shoot this week. I wish I had another friend with the Keltec but once I've done some shooting I should have a better idea of which will fill the bill for me. Not having fired one of these little suckers I'll bet they are a bit snappy in the recoil dept.

"If you decide to get the K-T buy a mag extension for it, the gun will be much more comtrollable. "

Is this something you get from Keltec or is it an after market item??

Just googled and answered my own question

[MtGun44]

From Keltech, I'll trade you straight across - a P3AT mag with the extension for
one without if you decide you want one. I don't much like it, myself. If you have
extra large hands it may be more for you than for me, just medium large hands.

You may have intended "a bit snappy" as understatement but it is not. Actually, while
these are not plinkers due to crummy sights and snappy recoil, it is not really bad
at all. Just snappy - which is exactly the term I use. At the 50 rd point, they do
become a tad tiresome, but never really painful.

To me these are very specialized guns. You must shoot them enough to become
profient with it (altho they are VERY simple) and to be CERTAIN that it will feed your
chosen round perfectly. Then you clean and lube and put it away. Practice with
other semiautos. Every 6-12 months, put 20 rounds through it at 10 yds, clean
reload and carry.

Buy a pocket holster, and the factory belt clip is excellent for really deep cover.

Bill

[bobthenailer]

i know of perhaps 5 other people who have the kl tec 380 and 2 who have the ruger lcp all work fine and everyone is satisfied ! the ruger has a little better fit and finish but thats it.
I have over 700 rounds through my kel tec 380 with most being lead bullet reloads , with no problems .

[Lloyd Smale]

I prefer the ruger. My keltec did occasionaly jam and the two rugers i have run flawlussly.

[pietro]

I shot a P-3AT last Fall - but only breifly, for familiarization. It was "OK", and only slightly larger than my old P-32. With Christmas on the doorstep, I didn't buy one( ($235+tx).

I did, however ( on impulse ) buy one of the batch of new Ruger LCP's a local funshop had received ($269+tx) about 6 weeks ago, and have only put about 500 rounds of hardball and 40 rounds of JHP's through it so far, for break-in/practice.

Well - it didn't need any "break-in", since it was as bobble-free as my KelTec P32 has been for the last 10 years or so.
It's not a target pistol, and I didn't treat it as such - a magful was easily kept inside a man-size silly-wet during very rapid fire @ 7yds (about as far as I've ever expect to need to use it)

The LCP is surprisingly loud, though - much louder/snappier than a .380 PPK, for instance. I would opine that the difference was a function of the LCP's lighter poly frame, and slightly shorter barrel.

I installed a KelTec belt/pocket clip on my LCP - ordered from Keltec, in fact ($11). It installed in just about the time it took to tell you about it.
It cannot be readily seen, when wearing black pants/slacks. The belt clips are available in either a RH or LH version - the metal forming near the attachment differs.
(It's seen here, with the LCP's butt slightly raised, for illustration - it can be turned deeper in the waistband, out of sight)

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1056075/DSCN0399.JPG


IIRC, there's a LOT of direct P3AT/LCP comparison, over on the elsiepea forum ( www.elsiepeaforum.com )

.

[MtGun44]

"P3AT, slightly larger than the P32". Having put them side by side, I think you would
need a micrometer to measure a difference. :-) Both are superbly concealable and I
agree very much with you on the belt clip for best possible concealment, altho the
draw is very slow this way. These guns have absolutely rewritten the rule book on
CCW miniguns. Normally, mine is in a a wallet type front pocket holster to avoid
crud on it and break up the outline.

Bill

[Black Prince]

The Ruger is called an LCP. That stands for Little Copied Pistol because they ripped off the Kel-Tec design. They had a recall on them shortly after Ruger released the first ones. Kel-Tec has not had any recalls on the P3AT. I owned a Kel-Tec 32 for five years before they came out with the 380 P3AT. I have owned a P3AT since they came out with them. I've had probaly 8 or 900 rounds through it and carry it daily ALL THE TIME and have had NO PROBLEMS with it. You can pay a 50 dollar premium for a Ruger if you have money to burn, but if you want the better pistol, get the Kel-Tec.

[fecmech]

Well I shot the Ruger today and it and I do not play well together! The trigger bites my finger badly when shooting it. There is a step at the top of the trigger that pinches my finger when firing the gun. It's something I'll have to look at with the Keltec. I can probably sand the point off the trigger if there is one on the KT. I did get lucky though in that a fellow showed up with a new S&W Bodyguard .380 which he kindly let me shoot. Way more comfortable (for me) to shoot and no trigger bite at all and seemed more controllable for follow up shots. It had a built in laser which was kind of interesting which for close quick shooting may or may not help. The one on this gun required that you physically turn it on so IMO that made it kind of useless for close quick encounters. The S&W pricing takes it out of range though as you can't buy it without the laser. I think the KT will get the nod and I will take you up on the mag swap Bill if you still want to. Again thanks to all who took the time to comment. Nick

[MtGun44]

PM me in a week or so. Out of town now and will be very busy when I get back.

I'll trade. I have a high cap mag for backup and tried the extended bottom to carry,
but it didn't fit me well. I will trade.

Keltech PF9 trigger bottom 1/4" irritates my finger, feels like it is hooked suddenly, but
it is not visibly. I pulled it all apart and warmed up the bottom 3/8" of trigger and
straightened it just a hair. Now it is nice. Absolutely amazing how some tiny shape thing
like that can be so darned irritating!

Bill

[1_Ogre]

Anyone out there reloading for the 380? Has anyone used the Lyman 356402? Have a lot of people wanting reloads for the 380 and I don't want to use a round nose like the 356242 (either one of them).
Just wondering.
Thanks:
Lead47

[Finster101]

Try the Lee 105 gr SWC

[Carolina Cast Bullets]

I prefer the Taurus 738 over either the Kel Tec or the Ruger. The reason, the Taurus has a very smooth and light trigger. The sights on all three leave much to be desired so I mounted a Crimson Trace on my 738. Lovely.

as to loads, I use an RDO 100 grain RNFL sized at .356" and lubed with 45/45/10 over 2.8 grains HP38. The Taurus eats this load up like salted peanuts.

Jerry
Carolina Cast Bullets

[jimb16]

I have two comments here. First, as a CCW instructor, I have fired both and prefer the P3AT. Second; the original design P3AT had a weak extractor. The second generation has a beefed up extractor. I have owned both types. The second generation is far superior to the first. I ride a MC all over the country. My P3AT is equipped with the belt hook and rides with me all the time. The only thing I have to do is wipe it down every now and again. Accuracy? I've potted 2 woodchucks with it at 30 and 35 yards. Good enough for me!

[Combat Diver]

I got a Lyman single cavity 358242 that I reload for my CZ82 and some Unique. Unique has been the only thing on my shelve for the last few years. Just haven't been home enough to warrent buying more powders (or much reloading for that matter anyway).

CD

[BBA]

I know 2 people that the LCP barrel has split open and destroyed the gun. Luckily with no injuries except some bruises. Ruger has replaced both in quick order and no explanation. Both people were using factory ammo and are experienced shooters. They have sold their Rugers and bought the KelTec. I'm happy with my 3A-T and know they've had a few odd problems in the past, but have not seen barrels coming apart.

[bobthenailer]

For reloading cast in the 380 ive had good luck with either the Lee 102-1r or a saeco #380 95 gr- rnbb

[MtGun44]

fecmech,

I realized if we do the swap, all we have to swap is just the floor plates, these can go
in the smallest padded envelope that you can find for probably just a std stamp.

Bill

[Sensai]

I've had a P3AT and a LCP, still have the P3AT. I just put one of CrimsonTrace's laserguard lasers on it, and absolutely love it! There is no ON/OFF switch, just a "pressure pad" that your normal grip activates when you hold the gun in a normal firing position. I was a little leery of this at first because I thought that it would be coming on when it was in my pocket, and running the battery down. This has proven not to be a problem. If you get the P3AT, I highly recommend that you consider the CT laser.

[1_Ogre]

Thanks Finster101, will look it up.

[leftiye]

I want to thank y'all for all the info on the kel tec pistols. I just went out and bought a PF9 (cain't get my head around a .380). Haven't shot it yet. Hope it runs as well as you say a P3at does. Muy small still!

[bjeffv]

My bro has the ruger, very nice gun for the money if you ask me. I don't like that it does not lock back when empty tho. I have the s&w body guard 380 auto with laser, for 380.00 bucks I thought it was a good deal. Good little shooter too.

None of the gun stores in my area bother to stock keltechs for some reason.

[MtGun44]

My PF9 has only had one issue - my 'too hot' handloads that caused primer flow into
the firing pin hole. Bits of brass accumulated and eventually caused a misfire.

The ammo worked fine in all my other 9mms (several different brands) so I presume that
my PF9 has a very tight chamber. I have had zero problems with factory ammo and
once I lowered my load a touch, no more problems with my ammo, either. Lowered
the rear sight by filing on the bottom a bit and move the POI down to the POA for me
at 25 yds.

VERY flat and light, easy to conceal.

Bill

[S.R.Custom]

My PF9 has only had one issue - my 'too hot' handloads that caused primer flow into
the firing pin hole. Bits of brass accumulated and eventually caused a misfire.

The ammo worked fine in all my other 9mms (several different brands) so I presume that my PF9 has a very tight chamber.

Actually, what your PF9 has --as does mine-- is the annoying tendency to start unlocking the barrel before the bullet has left the bore, thus shearing off primer material while it is still firmly planted against the breach. Hot loads seem to exacerbate this timing issue.

In addition to easing off the load intensity, lightening the firing pin return spring seems to help some, as well. The extractor spring from a Ruger Mark II pistol makes a perfect replacement. Same physical size, about 30% softer. And that elliminated the occasional misfire thing, too.

As for the Kel-Tec vs. Ruger thing, internally they are 75% indentical. And this goes for both the .380s and 9mms. Since they're both essentially the same, I opted for the lighter (and less expensive) one. I love my PF9, especially now that I've milled off that silly rail.

[RKJ]

I looked at both the KT and the Ruger and chose the Ruger. It was smoother as far as the grip and the externals. The PF9 was just a little too big for me. I've got an Officer's Model .45 and if I have to worry about concealment (the PF9) I'm going to carry the .45. I do like the little Ruger though, it shoots very nice and doesn't beat me up like I figured it would.

[mtgrs737]

I have reloaded for the LCP using a Lee 102 RN boolit sized .357" over 2.7 grs. of Bullseye and a std. small pistol primer. This load functioned 100% and was mild to shoot large numbers of. I have loaded up to 3.0 grs. of Bullseye and it worked fine but was snappier than I would like for shooting lots of rounds with. You can remove the barrel and use it for a drop in round checker so you will not have any oversized rounds giving you chambering problems using cast boolits.

[Carolina Cast Bullets]

I load/use the RDO 100 grain RNFL, sized to .356", mixed cases, 2.8 grains HP38 and small pistol primers. My Taurus 738 eats them up. Got a Crimson Trace on it too. great addition.

Jerry

[zardoz]

I own the Kel-Tec P32, P3AT, and P11. The P3AT is my choice for pants pocket or ankle holster CCW backup.

For all, I installed the finger grip extensions for all magazines. An absolute must for these size pistols, and my size hands.

While not precision target pistols, they give me confidence at 10 yards to hit what I'm aiming at consistently (keep them on a paper plate).

Through the P3AT, I have run Lee's 105 SWC with no problems at all. I believe I had to get the seating depth right, and that made the difference there. I've also run the 120 grain Lee TC (truncated cone) with zero problems. Recoil a bit stout on that.

Recently shot a few of the MiHec .380 hollowpoints from the group buy, which for me came in at around 93 grains, and again, zero problems with feed. Love that mould.

Have a few various other J-words I load for 380, mainly 90 grain HP's. Never a problem there either.

I don't own the Ruger version LCP, so can't speak to that one.

My $0.02