Sell me on swaging

[Love Life]

I cast a lot for my .454 Casull freedom arms and for my Glock 26 9mm. Can anybody sell me on swaging? What would be the benifits of swaging over casting? What size brass will I need to make good bullets for my 9mm? I can use 40 S&W brass to make .45 acp right? Any insight will be greatly appreciated.

Dick

[BT Sniper]

I love the 40/10mm bullets from 9mm brass, or the 44 cal bullets from 40 S&W brass. I would keep an eye open for a good deal on a 40 S&W or 10mm (picked up a great little EAA witness 40 S&W pistol for $300) and then get started in swaging with one of my 40 cal one step dies. Really is a great way to get into this hobby for the least amount of investment. Of course the 45 cal bullet is awesome too from the 40 S&W brass. A few guys here shooting these bullets too.

Sell you on swaging......... well I was pretty happy I knew how to make my own during the last ammo shortage. How happy will you be come the next one? I would have to say one thing myself, and I bet a lot of others shooting these bullets really like, is just how great the fealing is to shoot your own and also it is a heck of a "COOL" factor not to mention the cost savings vs. buying commercial.

Your going to love the look of these bullets not to mention the performance has been very good for a lot of these guys too. They will be in your hand soon enough :)

Good shooting,

BT

[Love Life]

I can't wait to shoot your bullets at paper this winter, and then use them on hogs this spring. I have a sad sinking feeling in my gut that my check for a set of dies will be headed your way soon. Can your dies make semi jacketed flat points? Once again thank you.

[BT Sniper]

Sad sinking fealing? You mean pure excitment don't you :) Semi jacketed flat points,, YEP! You can make a bullet with as little or as much jacket as you like with flat/hp or any style nose you care to think of. Great thing about this hobby is you can nearly make any kind of bullet you can think of.

BT

[redneck rampage]

I can tell you why I got into it. It was getting harder to find bullets for my 45acp for a cheap price. It is about $.04 per bullet for me to make both 44 an 45. My dies have paid for them self's already. That an it is just fun to say I make my own.

[buck1]

I cast a lot for my .454 Casull freedom arms and for my Glock 26 9mm. Can anybody sell me on swaging? What would be the benifits of swaging over casting? What size brass will I need to make good bullets for my 9mm? I can use 40 S&W brass to make .45 acp right? Any insight will be greatly appreciated.

Dick

I shoot all the jacketed boolits I want and for almost free! :bigsmyl2:
OK that will be $19.95 ...LOL![smilie=l:

[BwBrown]

The boolits themselves are cheaper to make, but the equipment.... so why do I?

1) It is fun, adds to the enjoyment of the sport.

2) Self reliance. I am increasingly closer to making it (all) myself. If it weren't for primers and powder, I (we) are just a bit closer to being able to enjoy the sport, perhaps to defend ourselves, apart from the commercial availability.

[Love Life]

All very good points. I love the idea of being able make and bullet style I want for my guns. If i want flatpoints then i make them. Same thing for RN and HP etc. I am really excited to give these bullets a try and throw my hat in the ring. Has anybody had any issues with the brass jackets?

[buck1]

I have been useing the BT sniper dies, They work in reloading presses. So far I have been making the 44mags from .40s . I couldnt be more pleased!
I find deals on fired range brass anneal and go to town on them! As with ant new componet start low and work up the load.
I have my second set of .475 from .45acp dies on order with him now.

[Love Life]

Do you have to cut the brass to length or trim the rims off?

[BT Sniper]

No need to cut rim off.

The need to trim cases/jackets depends on a few things, the size of the HP and the amount we are able to compress the jacket are two big points. There are a few other tricks too like rolling the tip of the brass into the HP of the formed bullet and the notch punch will efectivly allow for lighter bullets without trimming jackets.

Typicaly the 9mm will make as low as say 180ish grains without trimming, the 40S&W I have seen 230grains done with the notch point in 45 cal and usually around 240 before we need to trim maybe less.

With the 175 grains core and a 70 grain 40 S&W case you will have all the 245-250 grain 45 cal bullets you would ever need. Should do well out of your 45 colt.

BT

[Ickisrulz]

Swaging is for people that like to tinker, like to be able to do something unique, and/or like tools and equipment. It is also for people that need to make high quality bullets for competition and prefer not to buy them.

However, it is much slower than casting (especially since many people cast their cores for swaging) and more expensive.

[warf73]

Swaging is for people that like to tinker, like to be able to do something unique, and/or like tools and equipment. It is also for people that need to make high quality bullets for competition and prefer not to buy them.

However, it is much slower than casting (especially since many people cast their cores for swaging) and more expensive.


+1 on expensive and if you cast already with good results I see no real reason why to swage unless you are a tinker which most of use here are.

[Bollocks]

Hi,

I swage 9mm (.355) bullets from cut down 9mm cases, cut down 32 S&W long cases, cut down 223R cases and cut down .30M1 carbine cases. After cutting and annealing I draw them down to .354 using a slightly modified Dillon 9mm taper crimp die and home made punch. I use a Corbin CSP1 press.

From the cases named above using the 32 S&W long is the easiest. Only need to draw down the rim and the bullet can be formed in one step. Easier even would be 32 ACP cases so the cutting down part can be skipped. Sadly I do not find a lot of them.

I also shoot them through a G26 mostly. Accuracy was better than I expected.

These are some 9mm's I made from 9mm cases using CH4D dies:

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc452/SwageMeister/9x9mm.jpg

Cheers from Holland,
BolloX

[BT Sniper]

How do you guys determin "expensive"? This is brought up a lot and it has certainly turned off a lot of people from swaging. Don't worry warf73 I'm not pointing fingers, this is just brought up a lot yet not really disscused in depth about "what" costs so much about swaging.

Yes casting is pretty darn easy, fun, and with great results I'm sure. Shooting is a hobby and as far as I'm concerned one can spend as little or as much as one wants. How often does the cast boolit shooter shoot bullets "as cast" without pushing them threw a lube sizer? Yes a boolit mold and tumble in alox I suppose is all one needs and even a cheap Lee sizing die will get it done but I bet serious cast boolit shooters spend a bit more for better molds and the press to size and lube at the same time.

Now for swaging, it can be inexpensive IMOP or it can be very expensive depending on what tools you wish to use and what bullets you wish to make. Corbin dies and press to make 22 cal bullets, or any bullet will be over a grand and a bit of a wait from what I hear.

CH dies, or hopfuly my own dies soon, to make pistol cal bullets with a standard press can be had for a LOT less! I added it all up once and if you started with absoltly ZERO, not even a press, you could have everything you needed to swage including press, molds, lead pot, die, brass and lead for around $400 or less as most allready have some of these items.

Hopefully we can keep from scaring people away with the idea swaging has to cost alot. Ask anyone that has swaged or cast and I bet they will say the money has been well spent and worth it.

Another question.... how many people that shoot cast booltits you suppose still buy commercial jacketed bullets in the same or other calibers? At some point if we stopped the need to buy jacketed commercial bullets the return on any investment will obvioulsy begin to show.

I'm not trying to stir any pots here with cast vs. swage only trying to shed some light on the fact that swaging doesn't have to cost a lot.

Good shooting no matter what comes out the barrel. Take pride in the fact you made it yourself, that's what it is all about.

BT

[Ickisrulz]

BT,

Expensive is a relative term and means something different to each person on this forum. But when you consider that one can get set up for casting for very little money and then acquire molds starting at $20 a piece from Lee and even get custom single cavity molds for $75...swaging is much more expensive.

Even the stock CH4d dies are $135.00 a set. If you are planning on casting your cores you have to have all the casting equipment on top of this. You can cut cores, but then you need a core cutter and lead wire ($2-3 pound?) Want to put a cannelure on those bullets? That's another $70.00. Do you have an adequate press?

Let's not even think about the Corbins' stuff!

This isn't even factoring in a person's time which is easily 2-3x what it takes to cast boolits. I enjoy swaging on occasion, but if this was the only way I made bullets I'd never have enough to shoot.

[ANeat]

You guys are killin me with all the "money" talk

Yea the stuff aint cheap, some stuff is cheaper than other stuff

Its a hobby, enjoy yourself.

Heck you still gotta buy one of them dang guns, them things are expensive too....

Plus all that range time, hours and hours, factor all that time in, heck If I had a $10.00 an hour job with all that time I would be rich........ but like would be pretty boring.

To me casting and swaging allows me to have more control over what goes thru the gun.

It matters to me, you have to decide for yourself if it matters to you, and more importantly. "How Much" does it matter

[BT Sniper]

Heck you still gotta buy one of them dang guns, them things are expensive too....



LOL and well put. Bottom line it is enjoyable and rewarding no matter how little or much you spend.

Good shooting

BT

[randmplumbingllc]

No one can "sell" you on swaging.....or casting, or even reloading. You have to weigh all the different pro's and con's and for each person, these will be different.

If you have the time, money, patience and "want" to make something that most people don't can't or won't do themselves, then swaging might be right for you.

Think about it this way,......If you get all the stuff needed to swage and decide that you don't want to do it.....you can easily sell everything you bought. It might cost you a 20% loss, but you can say that you tried it and found it is just not for you. Lesson learned !

I enjoy being able to make bullets that are as accurate or more accurate then "factory".

We tested some swaged 45 ACP bullets against some factory"duty" ammo. This was on a LEO firearm instructor bullseye test. The swaged shot as well or better then factory. The test was with 30 rounds, 10 from 25 yards and 20 from 15 yards....offhand.

Out of a possible 300 score, the swaged scored a 272. Only one qual. shot a higher score, a 280. Most factory shot in the high 250's to low 260's. We did 5 quals., back to back. Same shooter, same distance, same time allowed, same weather conditions, etc.

I am not going to say what factory ammo shot what score.

I have to say that I would put my swaged 45 ACP bullet up against most any factory bullet around.

If that don't sell ya, you can't be sold.

Oh yeah, the loaded swage rounds cost me 3 to 4 cents a round. The factory rounds cost a dollar + a round.

[7of7]

Are you sold yet?
:popcorn:

[LatheRunner]

Here is how I see it. This is my hobby. I realy enjoy it. I spend what I can. If I can make it I will to save money. Its just like going to a college football game you buy the ticket you can afford. Sometimes you have to save up to get that ticket. LatheRunner

[mold maker]

Compared to a set of Golf clubs, bag, shoes etc, a set of swaging dies from BT and a press, are chicken feed.
Ya don't have to leave home to use them even when the weather is a dud.
It's as much fun as an old man can legally have, and ya have something useful as the product of you time.
At current prices, ya get ya money back in the two or three hundred rounds or so.
Now forget about the money and have some free fun. I've spent more on dinner for the family, and the meal gave me heart burn.

[warf73]

To me swaging bullets is a long term endeavor that takes a lot of time and work but its fun and the end results are great. Is it cheaper than casting boolits NO is it cheaper than buying store bought bullets yes in the long run.

I would suggest casting boolits way before I would suggest swaging bullets. Most folks have a hard time digesting the start up cost of casting. Now throw in swaging and every time you want to change calibers it will cost close to $200, that’s very unappealing compared to changing calibers with casting at under $70.00.

My own current ponders if I would swag vs. cast was my 480 Ruger shooting 400gr boolits. It cost me $20 per 2 cavity mold (I have 2) and a push thru die that would have cost me $30 but I made one myself for free. My total cost to make boolits for the new handgun was under $50 vs. over $300 total cost to swaging. In my book it would have been expensive to swage.

[Love Life]

Thank you all for the points you have brought up. I didn't mean for this to become a swage vs. cast argument.

Somebody asked am I sold yet. The answer to that is absolutely. I'm just waiting to try out some swaged bullets and for the tax man to send me a check. Initial start up costs do APPEAR to be expensive, but my Dillon 550, tool heads, dies, caliber conversions, lee press, shell holders, casting pot, molds, lube sizer, lubesizer dies, and lube were all expensive to. Over the years these products have more than paid for themselves both money and fun wise.

Shooting, reloading, casting, and soon to be swaging are all very enjoyable hobbies that give me a tangible product for my time. Plus there is the cool factor and the fact that I dont have to depend on dealer supply to go shoot. Add on the price of factory ammo and I think swaging will more than pay for itself over time. Wow I think I just sold myself.

[Gorby]

I am very interested in swaging boolits. What do I need for .45 acp ? I would like to swag .310 bullets also for ak and Mosin Nagant. Please post a link for more info and tooling.

[a.squibload]

If you have a rifle with a gas port (ie: Ruger 44 carbine) swaging might help,
cast could gum up the port.

If you have a polygon barrel pistol (ie: Kahr PM40) cast MIGHT lead the barrel quickly,
causing overpressure (or that's what I heard). Swaging your own might help.

If you like to "destroy" cartridge brass and end up with inexpensive JHPs, swaging might be fun for you.

[Love Life]

I love to destroy brass. Brass really isn't that hard to come by. Most of the ranges I go to will let me take what I want for either free or a pretty cheap price. Then there are the non regulated ranges where people go shoot in the mountains and leave their brass all over the place. Nice pretty brass. If that fails then there are members of this forum who sell brass for pretty cheap.

Back to on track. BT Sniper I am back in the states and will send your brass to you this saturday.

[BT Sniper]

Cool. Hope you kept some 40 S&Ws for your future swaging projects. All I need to do is put the crimp grove on the bullet for you. I can place it anywhere we like. Give me two numbers and I'll make it perfect for you. I need your case length and your planned over all loaded length OAL.

Look foward to hearing about your results. Welcome back to the main land.

BT