SAECO 375 Grain Bullet in 45-70 - Range Report

[doubs43]

This afternoon, with temps in the high 40's and a variable wind, I tried the 375 grain SAECO bullet in a pair of 45-70 rifles. The bullet is a plain base spitzer design with a single wide lube band, a crimping groove and a long bearing surface extending above the crimping groove about 1/4 of an inch. They drop from my mold at .459" ~ .460" in diameter and weigh 372 grains, give or take a grain or two. I sized them to .459" and lubed with Carnuba Red.

My load is a duplex smokeless combination of 3.0 grains of WW-231 and 57.0 grains of WC-860. The bullet compresses the load and is seated to an overall length of 2.662". The crimp is above the crimping groove which is also lubed. If crimped in the groove, the bullet engages the lands and won't seat properly.

I used two rifles. First, a Pedersoli 1874 Sharps (Cabela's) with a 30" barrel, globe front sight with a post & ball insert and a Dr. Goodwin rear vernier sight by Pedersoli. The Dr. Goodwin is an odd looking sight but does an excellent job. I quite like the sight. The double-set trigger is crisp and light.

The second rifle is a new Uberti 1885 High Wall with pistol grip stock and 32" barrel. Front sight is the same as the Pedersoli while the tang sight is a Pedersoli long range Soule vernier scale type. The trigger is a little heavier than I like. It has some creep but breaks clean and should wear in with use.

Getting on paper at 100 yards wasn't difficult with either rifle. I didn't really shoot any groups at 100 but rather shot the targets until I had my sights where I wanted them. I did the same at 150 yards but did shoot a 3-shot group with each rifle. The Pedersoli did 2 inches C-C and the Uberti did 1 3/4 inches. At two hundred yards the Pedersoli opened up to 4 1/2 inches and the Uberti to 3 3/4 inches. They were both well centered. I have no doubt that the wind was effecting the bullets, especially at 200 yards.

I'm pleased with the SAECO bullets and should be able to whittle the groups down as I work more with them. It's a very nice looking bullet and suits my purposes just about perfectly.

[Malcolm]

you have loss me there i was thinking the 45-70 was .459 not 359. prehaps I missed something some where.

[school of mines]

Thanks for the report. I've been interested in trying the SAECO molds/boolits in my 45-70. Please update when you get the chance!

[doubs43]

Thanks for the report. I've been interested in trying the SAECO molds/boolits in my 45-70. Please update when you get the chance!

I've had a SAECO 300 grain mould in 45 caliber for a couple of years. I use it in my 45-70 rifles. It's a plain base boolit that weighs between 306 - 307 grains using my mix....... any over or under those weights go back into the pot. I won a silhouette match in January with them.

The SAECO moulds are quality and you won't be disappointed in them IMO.

[nicholst55]

I'm curious about the duplex smokeless load. Is the W231 needed to ignite the WC860? I'd have thought that a LR primer would have sufficed for that, but that's just me.

[Freightman]

LRP will ignite a full case of WC860 but you will have a lot of trash in your bore, just put .3cc dipper of 231/unique ect. in and reduce WC860 by the amt of 231 and you will gain 150+ fps and the trash will be gone and no pressure signs. Good load. with 400gr up is better. Do not use the boolit to compress and only compress a little.

[doubs43]

I'm curious about the duplex smokeless load. Is the W231 needed to ignite the WC860? I'd have thought that a LR primer would have sufficed for that, but that's just me.

Freightman has given you a good answer. The WC-860 is a 50 caliber BMG ball powder that burns very slow, accounting for the low pressures. It requires four things to be consistent without leaving a large amount of unburned powder in the bore: a decent boolit weight, slight compression, a light - moderate crimp and a good igniter.... something hotter than a magnum LR primer. I use 3.0 grains of WW-231 or Bullseye. My bore may have 8 or 10 individual grains of powder left in it.

I've used my duplex loads for more than 20 years, mostly with an RCBS 300 grain GC boolit that weighs 314 grains from my mould. The 300 grain SAECO boolit eliminates the need for a gas check.

I started with a C. Sharps 1875 Business rifle that I bought second hand and still have. It shoots 1 ~ 1.5 MOA at 100 yards consistently and I've won many matches with it.

Other cartridges I've worked up duplex loads for include the 40-65 and 38-55. The consistency of the duplex loads is almost unreal. The 45-70 will average 10 fps average deviation and the 38-55 about 8 fps. I haven't had a 40-65 in some years and don't recall the specifics of my load for it.

This is a typical 108 yard group with my Winchester (Miroku) High Wall 38-55. The load is in Starline 2.125" cases using 2.5 grains WW-231 and 32 grains of WC-860. The boolit is the 312 grain RCBS. Velocity is 1319 fps.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/doubs43/100MeterTargetHiWall.jpg